F213 B-17E Flying Fortress

[MrB17]

35 minutes ago, JOCKNEY said:

Delighted to see this one coming together. 

 

My scrap Frog B-17 is moulded in a green plastic rather than this one in Blue / grey.

Strangely I thought these were originally Hasegawa kits so expected them to all be moulded in that distinctive dark green.

One of the great things about GBs is how much there is to learn about something you thought you already knew everything about 

 

Cheers Pat 

 

Thanks Pat. The one I built in the 70’s was exactly the same colour as this one. The kit was also released by Hobby Holding, Maquette and Alanger, I also had the Maquette Boeing 307 Stratoliner, and the base kit was the FROG B-17E, in the same dark blue plastic. The injection moulded fuselage and other parts had to be the crudest I’ve ever seen, moulded in several colours of plastic all swirled together. Thanks to Bat Project, I was able to sell that one and get one of theirs. Maquette and Alanger released it as a B-17F with new parts (I assume the nose Perspex).

I built quite a few Hasegawa F’s and they were all that pleasant dark green colour (I used to call it Godzilla Green haha).

I’ll be getting back to this project as soon my babysitting shift is over.

 

Cheers

 

Jeff

[MrB17]

Back again.

I cemented a piece of scrap from the upper wing tab, that I cut out, into the ceiling of the wheel well, across the two sockets there. One is for gear down and the other for gear up, but the gear up socket was too far to the side and would have made the wheel canted, so I bridged the sockets with the scrap and drilled a hole in the centre, to attach the nubbins on top of the wheel. I brushed some Humbrol Airframe Silver in the wheel wells and inside the wings, below the wings vents. I don’t think you’ll get to see any of it, but it was a good excuse to use some Humbrol.

 

Cut some plastic tube for the oil cooler ducts and cemented inside the wing. I maid the face of the oil coolers using small squares of black nylon from old tights, pressed onto some plastic card with liquid cement. When almost dry, I cut through the nylon with a piece of brass tube with a sharpened end, and pulled the excess nylon away. This left nice little textured discs, that I painted with Humbrol #56. When dry, I cemented them to the back of the ducts. I had to make sure that the wing joint between the engines, cleared the top of the oil cooler ducts. The wings were warped, so I had to work along the seams a bit at a time and then clamp them.

 

 I thought there was something weird about the waist windows, when I was getting ready to paint some of the interior. They looked a bit squat, but they were too far forward, almost as far as the starboard waist window on later staggered waist B-17G’s. So I decided to plug the opening with a section of the closed bomb doors that I won’t be using. I left it a bit proud of the fuselage, so when I sand flush I shouldn’t have to use much putty. Tomorrow I will cut out new waist openings in the correct size and position and make new windows from clear sheet styrene. Then I can get on with the fuselage. Yippee!

Cheers

 

Jeff

[Rabbit Leader]

Once again, nice work Jeff. You’re highlighting lots of interesting aspects to this kit and B-17E details in general. This thread will make for a good reference piece for future modellers. Many thanks. 
 

Cheers.. Dave 

[JOCKNEY]

Great to see those wings are just falling together, I'm surprised you need glue at all 

[MrB17]

14 minutes ago, JOCKNEY said:

Great to see those wings are just falling together, I'm surprised you need glue at all 

No glue Pat, just copious amounts of methylene chloride! I buy it by the litre. They’re welded shut now!

 

Cheers 

 

Jeff

[MrB17]

Got more accomplished tonight. I had to enlarge two windows in the nose, Yankee Doodle and all the other 97th B-17’s had the larger cheek windows seen on early F’s such as Memphis Belle. Most of the Pacific B-17E’s were all small nose windows. I ended up cutting off the rudder, it looks a bit bloated, so I can reshape it without wrecking the fin. The trailing edge of the elevators is quite thin compared to the rudder, so it would look odd if I didn’t fix the rudder. I’m going to have to get aggressive with the wings, the trailing edge is pretty thick as are the wingtips. The waist windows themselves are small, but I cut out what would be the window assembly that slides inwards to open. If I use clear styrene for the whole thing, when masked and painted they’ll be nice and flush. Also noticed that you can see through the wing vents when you look through the open nacelles.

 

Cheers

 

Jeff

[Rabbit Leader]

This thread and build just keeps getting better and better. The corrections are all impressive and it’s good to know what needs doing if contemplating the same kit. 
Cheers.. Dave 

[Galligraphics]

6 hours ago, Rabbit Leader said:

what needs doing if contemplating the same kit

Run away, it would seem is the best idea... 

[Johnson]

Excellent work Jeff! I do love a B-17.

 

Cheers,

 

Charlie

[MrB17]

Bit more work done on the wings and fuselage. The same mistake that Revell G made on their 1/72 B-17 is also prevalent here, namely the ailerons are the same chord on top and bottom. They’ve used the measurements for the underside, on the top, not quite as glaringly as RVG, but an easy fix with some scribing and putty. Got the engine cowlings dry fitted and made the necessary adjustments. I’m going to have to replace the panel lines, in removing plastic and sanding around the windows, fuselage and nacelles, I took off quite a bit. Haven’t decided on scribing or cutting yet. I will scribe the control surface leading edges on the ailerons, and also scribe the flaps, and crew doors etc. I also have to put back rib lines on the rudder, elevators and ailerons. 
Most of the panel lines on the kit were guesswork, ie. forward crew hatch on the wrong side! I can see the finish line, about 50km down the road.

 

Anyway, whilst I was fussing about on the B-17, a couple more FROG kits arrived. I knew the Swordfish was complete and FROG, however I took a chance on a bagged something or other that had the instructions for the NOVO Gannet visible, but I could also make out Lysander components. What I ended up with is a NOVO Lysander, complete sans instructions. I have better decals for it and the instructions are .pdf The seller kindly refunded $15 postage, so the two were just under $30. Yippee!

That’s all for now 

 

Cheers

 

Jeff

[Rabbit Leader]

Yet again, more interesting corrections identified and noted for future use (perhaps?). 

Good to see two additional Frog classics ready to be worked on, however please don't push this B-17 build too far away.

Cheers .. Dave  

[MrB17]

Thanks Dave. I didn’t intend on getting this carried away, but when I see an error and it’s within my means to correct it, I can’t look away. It won’t be the same with the other kits, because I know very little about those subjects in particular.
Looking forward to the Swordfish, it’s a very clean moulding with very little flash and I have never built the FROG kit, I did an Airfix one when I was a kid. The NOVO Lysander is not too bad, but it’s that very hard brittle plastic, a little scary to work with.

Hoping to get the fuselage buttoned up this weekend, and on to paint.

 

Cheers

 

Jeff

[MrB17]

Getting there. Scribed the cowl flaps and got some painting done on the engines. Scribed ribs on control surfaces. Painted some interior components and scratched some missing detail like the instrument panel and coaming. It’s a tight fit for the cockpit and nose section, especially with all the crew figures. I had to trim things until they all fit and the fuselage halves would close. I had to come up with some missing guns, both 50cal. and 30cal. The B-17E only had 30cal. for the nose glazing, the ball socket mounts would not support 50cal. The modified cheek windows could mount 50cal. because they had internal bracing for the mounts. I still have to scratch the mounts, I just need to make sure everything clears. I cut new gun barrels from rod stock, the kit ones were very brittle and broken in too many pieces. I cut a 2mm slice off of the bottom of the top turret glazing and modified the base and gun mount, it sat too high and really didn’t look very good. The E used a flatter turret, the same as early F’s, so the modifications make it look that way.
 

Made a jig to align the propeller blades and to mark the 4” yellow tips. Instead of masking and risking more blade breaking, I gently cut a line with a sharp scalpel blade, which created a little dam that the yellow paint would flow up to. It worked even better than I thought. I have a few tins of Humbrol Lufthansa yellow, It covers very well, although I did use a white base for the blade tips. If you look at the 3 yellow oxygen bottles in the starboard nose (came with the kit!) that’s just one coat of Lufthansa yellow over the dark blue plastic. I love that paint! Roughly brushed on some flat aluminium on the inside of the fuselage, I know you won’t be able to see much in there, but it might reflect a little bit more light. I used bronze green and dark green to look like the canvas covered batting used in the radio room, cockpit and nose. I will check to see everything looks ok through the windows before buttoning up the fuselage. Painted the exhausts and turbochargers in 56 steel and gave a wash with Vallejo red brown.

 

Hoping to button it up tomorrow, and replace the missing panel lines.

 

Cheers

 

Jeff

[Rabbit Leader]

Lufthansa Yellow you say Jeff, that’s something I’ll need to try as yellow is… well, everyone knows don’t they! 
 

Very impressive work going on here, it’s all looking really great. I like the scribed yellow prop line idea, might have to borrow that one for my Shackleton! 
 

Cheers.. Dave 
 

 

[AdrianMF]

Looking good! Particularly like the turbocharger finish.

 

Regards,

Adrian

[PeterB]

On 2/15/2024 at 9:59 AM, Rabbit Leader said:

Lufthansa Yellow you say Jeff, that’s something I’ll need to try as yellow is… well, everyone knows don’t they! 
 

Very impressive work going on here, it’s all looking really great. I like the scribed yellow prop line idea, might have to borrow that one for my Shackleton! 
 

Cheers.. Dave 
 

 

Hi Dave,

 

Given that I had to do 48 of them I actually printed a few strips of decal for my Shack props - red/white/red/black with the black for the bottom edge to make painting the blades a bit easier. It was a bit slow but it worked quite well!.

 

Pete

 

Edited February 16 by PeterB

[Rabbit Leader]

Impressive work Pete, I’ve got two Airfix Shacks that come with Red and White prop decals, however the Revell MR.3 doesn't. I might use a set of decals for the Revell kit and paint yellow for an earlier Airfix schemed kit. Thats if I ever get to build them of course! 

Cheers.. Dave 

[silverfox63]

20 hours ago, PeterB said:

Given that I had to do 48 of them I actually printed a few strips of decal for my Shack props - red/white/red/black with the black for the bottom edge to make painting the blades a bit easier. It was a bit slow but it worked quite well!.

I can see this in my future for my Frog Shacks.

[MrB17]

Got the fuselage together, but not without a major struggle. I seldom use ca on major assemblies, but it was necessary this time around. The warping was pretty bad. Anyway I have some major wet sanding today. I made frames for the cheek windows from .005” stock, I wanted to see if I could install the guns in such a way that I could attach the barrels from outside as a last step. I cut the barrels off and drilled into the receiver of the gun, then I push fit the barrel on and positioned the gun and cemented the receiver to the mounts I made previously, once dry, I simply removed the barrel. With the amount of sanding ahead of me, I would surely have broken them off. The 30 cal.’s  for the nose glazing can be installed later and then cemented as a unit as a last step.

 I decided to feather one propeller and then realized that the hub was too close to the crankcase to allow for clearance. The photo shows how close this was. So I had to cement a spacer to the back of the hub to clear the blades, I’ll need to do this to the other 3 hubs, so they all line up. I’m going to feather #1, so I positioned the trim tab on the rudder to the left and I will have some right rudder when I install it.
The tail turret, was just a gaping hole with some poorly moulded guns attached to a rod. I opened the hole up a little, as it was too squat and made a mount for the gun barrels. I scratched the small plate for the bottom with a couple of holes for the lights. It’s just sitting there for the picture, I have to clean up the inside before I cement it in. I’ll probably use some tissue wet with white glue to replicate the canvas boot. 
I’m scratching some pieces for the oil cooler intakes, to bulge them out a little and put the intake a bit above the centre of the leading edge. 
I painted the ball turret mount sky type S, as the paint scheme is RAF dark earth, dark green over sky. I happened to notice on my iPad screen that the sky looked too yellow, then I noticed that my magnifying lamp was shifting the colour. So I have taken 2 pictures to show the influence of artificial light vs ambient natural light. In natural light the sky looks more like it. I noticed @Troy Smith used natural light to show the colour match on his Hurricane, and now you can see why. The top picture is natural, and you can see the difference in colour on my well used cutting mat.

The control yokes were noticeably over scale, so I have yanked them out. The photo shows the comparison between Hasegawa’s vs FROG, I think I will scratch new yokes with the correct Y spokes. The yokes on E back to 299 had varnished wood rims.

Well here’s the photos and off I go with the wet sanding.

Cheers

 

Jeff

[MrB17]

Getting closer now. Sanded things smooth and applied Mr. Surfacer 500 liberally. Broke both control columns off while sanding, so I ended up making new control yokes from copper wire wrapped around a brass rod and cut to shape. Scratched the spokes of the yoke from plastic card, and cut the old yokes off and modified the control column. Just a quick dry fit to check mating surfaces, although you can see big gaps in the photos, the fit is pretty good so far. Starting to come together now, yippee!

Cheers

 

Jeff

[JOCKNEY]

Fantastic build thread Jeff

 

Definitely one for anyone wishing to build this kit themselves. 

 

Your control columns are actually superior to the originals 

 

Cheers Pat 

[vppelt68]

Well, reading this magnificent build thread makes me want to tuck my Frog B-17 kit deeper back in the closet

[MrB17]

12 hours ago, vppelt68 said:

Well, reading this magnificent build thread makes me want to tuck my Frog B-17 kit deeper back in the closet

A FROG B-17E doesn’t belong in a closet haha. 😏 The other option on the kit decals is Suzy Q. With that one, they supply a blanking plug for the ball turret hole. Although they don’t give you a blanking cover for the top turret, it did have that removed as well when it was touring for war bonds. The decals depict her during the tour, including the 26 kills that they claimed, that were placed near the rear crew door. The rather colourful history was written in white, behind the nose art. FROG gives you this, but I can’t read it. Suzy Q flew in all the Pacific battles except Midway.
Now that I’ve given you a bit of inspiration, take the box out of the closet and put it near your work bench.

Come on, you know you want to. Haha 

 

Cheers

 

Jeff

[Rabbit Leader]

C’mon @vppelt68, I’m more inclined to getting a Frog B-17 after seeing this thread, I’m sure you’ll do yours justice too. Coming along nicely Jeff, I’m still keen to add one to my collection. 
 

Cheers.. Dave 

[MrB17]

I ended up sanding off all of the raised panel lines, it was just easier not have to go around them. I have started to cut new panel lines, so after a final sand, they will be slightly raised, enough to be seen but not overtake the look. I have a nice set of RB and Rosie the Riveter wheels, but I didn’t want to take too much time with it, there are other kits to build. I’ve been using 1/8” red 3M vinyl masking tape as a visual guide, it’s too soft to use the edge. But with a fresh scalpel blade adapted to use in a #1 exacto handle, the tip of the blade is above the centre line of the handle, so it naturally favours a straight line. My years of experience pin striping cars and motorcycles, helps in this regard. I pretty much hold the knife as if it was a dagger striping brush, stop breathing and go for it. It’s not perfect, but if I could use the term I’ve heard from most painters I knew: “Far from good but good from far”. For circles I sharpen the end of brass tubing. I hope to have all the “scribing” done by the weekend.

Cheers

 

Jeff