Faraway Posted January 5 Share Posted January 5 Now before you all say 'but you haven't finished the LST' let me explain. I've often looked at this kit on BC and never quite plucked up the courage to buy it, however this year has started well, with a good win on the premium bonds and as the saying goes, 'you can't take it with you'. I've ordered it. So, as I was wandering around the interweb, I found this picture of this ship, as she was in 1918, and well, you know me, I can't resist a good camo/dazzle scheme. . As well as the colour scheme, I'm thinking I'll probably have to make some changes to the ship herself, as the kit is how she was (I think) in 1941 and her famous role in Pearl Harbour, when she sank a Japanese Mini Sub. Thus firing the first American shots of the Pacific War. And at that time she was painted in 5-D dark grey or maybe 5-S sea blue, which I think are boring, SO hence the idea of her in 1918. BUT, I've no idea what the colours are. I'm fairly sure black and white are there, but the other shades could be grey but I'm more inclined to think they are blue. So, that's where you lovely lot come in, do any of you know what these colours could be ? And are there any books out there like my copy of Royal Navy Warship Camouflage by Peter Hodge, which could detail colour patterns and colours in use by the U.S. Navy in 1918 ? Two chaps spring to mind who might have this knowledge @Jamie @ Sovereign Hobbies and @dickrd who have been so very helpful in the past. If you can come to my rescue again, I'll be very grateful. So, that's the reason this post is here. Jon 10 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robgizlu Posted January 5 Share Posted January 5 Nice one Jon and an intriguing Camouflage pattern. Watching with interest Rob 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faraway Posted January 5 Author Share Posted January 5 15 minutes ago, robgizlu said: Nice one Jon and an intriguing Camouflage pattern. Watching with interest Rob Don’t hold your breath. It’s not arrived yet, and I need to figure out the colours first and if I need to make any structural changes. And I fancy building something a bit bigger, so might do the ASR launch. But Ward does appear to be an interesting build, we don’t seem to see much in the way of WW1 ships here, do we ? Jon 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dickrd Posted January 5 Share Posted January 5 Although I don't have a copy, I think that this might be the book you need: The Easter Egg Fleet: American Ship Camouflage in WWI by Aryeh Wetherhorn But if you want to avoid spending any money then the Facebook group "Warship Camouflage Research Group" is the place to go. The author of that book plus others that have researched USN WW1 paints and schemes are members and will share their wisdom for free. 4 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faraway Posted January 5 Author Share Posted January 5 19 minutes ago, dickrd said: Although I don't have a copy, I think that this might be the book you need: The Easter Egg Fleet: American Ship Camouflage in WWI by Aryeh Wetherhorn But if you want to avoid spending any money then the Facebook group "Warship Camouflage Research Group" is the place to go. The author of that book plus others that have researched USN WW1 paints and schemes are members and will share their wisdom for free. Thanks very much for this information. I’ll resist the temptation to buy the book (for now, I do love these sort of books) and wait for inclusion in the FB group. Jon 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dickrd Posted January 5 Share Posted January 5 OK, I just approved you! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faraway Posted January 5 Author Share Posted January 5 Progress with the colours and pattern is being made, with grateful thanks to @dickrd who pointed me towards the FB group. I have the following info, @Jamie @ Sovereign Hobbies do any of these colours relate to your stock ? camouflage type N-12, Design B. The colors are White, Black, Number 1 Blue-Grey, and Number 3 Blue. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neilh Posted January 6 Share Posted January 6 I'll look forward to this one Jon. I've been considering picking one of these up to build as HMS Salisbury after my HMS Rupert now that the the WEM / Atlantic models kit is no longer available. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faraway Posted January 6 Author Share Posted January 6 On the FB page, I now have the pattern and the colours, just need to figure out what actual colour #1 Blue-Grey & #3 Blue are. Oh yeah, and deck colour, if it’s not one thing it’s another. But it should end up ok. Jon 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StephenCJ Posted January 7 Share Posted January 7 I have just bought this kit (1/2 hour ago). Gonna follow along and learn something about building this kit. Stephen 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faraway Posted January 7 Author Share Posted January 7 43 minutes ago, StephenCJ said: I have just bought this kit (1/2 hour ago). Gonna follow along and learn something about building this kit. Stephen Stephen. Not sure when I’m going to start, probably be a while as I have another boat planned first. But I’ll change the title when I do. Jon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dickrd Posted January 7 Share Posted January 7 (edited) Samples of some of these colours were printed into the old 1922 Encyclopedia Britannica but have of course badly deteriorated with age. No. 3 blue is particularly bad! Note how as the number counts up the tone gets darker, the reverse to how the WW2 RN MS series paint numbers worked: There are lots of coloured original design sheets held by various museums and archives in the UK and USA that can be viewed on-line. Some show the colours you are interested in. I am not sure whether the guidance was or was not to match colours to any accompanying shade cards, but the design sheets should at least put you in the ballpark. Try "WW1 dazzle plans" in a Google images search for things like this for example (again a bit faded): These and their colours then can be compared with the colours on the extensive IWM collection of contemporary models used by Norman Wilkinson to test his dazzle designs, again visible on-line. (This is just an example. You would need to work your way through to match design sheets to models): Or you could wait until you get Aryeh's book. I would be very interested indeed to see any sample colour reference charts that he may have of the colours. He may have researched in the US archives which I know hold sample chips of these colours (but again doubtless degraded to a greater or lesser extent with age for which allowance must be made). Edited January 7 by dickrd 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faraway Posted January 7 Author Share Posted January 7 @dickrd thanks for this info, I’ll do a ‘Google’ in a while. It appears the hardest part is going to be matching current available paint to the required colour, I’m going to try and get as close as possible, what d’you reckon @Jamie @ Sovereign Hobbies will any of your colours be a close match ? Something I’ve just noticed, is some, only some, of the borders between lighter blues and white/grey have black lines. Must remember that. Jon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faraway Posted January 7 Author Share Posted January 7 Just had a quick look at the search on Google, I never realised how many patterns were on ships AND how many colours were used. Also, I’ve noticed that it appears the majority of pictures are for merchant ships. Aryeh’s book is due today, can’t wait. Jon 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faraway Posted January 7 Author Share Posted January 7 @dickrd I've just received 'The Easter Egg Fleet' by Aryeh Wetherhorn. What an amazing book, I wouldn't have dreamed there were so many patterns of dazzle camouflage and all the pictures are in colour. If you haven't got this book, then I recommend you should, I know it's primarily WW1 and American , but as a reference work, it is excellent. I shall loose a few hours going through it. Also, it will be a great help trying to match available paint colours to what I can use. Also, for me that is, I definitely makes me wonder about making some WW1 ships in the future. Mind you, they will be a nightmare to mask So, my next task is to try to match the colours in the book to colours available from @Jamie @ Sovereign Hobbies this could take a while. Jon 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dickrd Posted January 9 Share Posted January 9 On 1/7/2024 at 1:46 PM, Faraway said: @dickrd I've just received 'The Easter Egg Fleet' by Aryeh Wetherhorn. What an amazing book, I wouldn't have dreamed there were so many patterns of dazzle camouflage and all the pictures are in colour. If you haven't got this book, then I recommend you should, I know it's primarily WW1 and American , but as a reference work, it is excellent... Jon, Thank you for recommending it. Although WW1 is not my prime interest I ordered it and my copy arrived yesterday. It is fascinating. The one thing I think needs to be nailed down though is the correct 'colour' of the colours esp Blue 3. I am not sure what Aryeh has done ie has he simply reproduced the design sheets as he found them in their current colour-faded/detriorated state? In any case the designs sheets make it clear that the "colors on the plan are for measurement only. Actual colors as per color chart" I will prod someone on that FB page. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faraway Posted January 9 Author Share Posted January 9 53 minutes ago, dickrd said: Jon, Thank you for recommending it. Although WW1 is not my prime interest I ordered it and my copy arrived yesterday. It is fascinating. The one thing I think needs to be nailed down though is the correct 'colour' of the colours esp Blue 3. I am not sure what Aryeh has done ie has he simply reproduced the design sheets as he found them in their current colour-faded/detriorated state? In any case the designs sheets make it clear that the "colors on the plan are for measurement only. Actual colors as per color chart" I will prod someone on that FB page. I’ve seen your comment on FB, and as I said, I’ll try to match the book colours, simply because I think that’s as good as we’ll get. As I don’t think colour photography was something that was very accurate in WW1, I think it existed but not very true to life. By the by, have you seen the pattern on page 187 ? That is definitely a trigger for migraine. Jon 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tegethoff Posted January 9 Share Posted January 9 On 07/01/2024 at 13:46, Faraway said: Also, for me that is, I definitely makes me wonder about making some WW1 ships in the future. Mind you, they will be a nightmare to mask If you do decide to start, could you kindly let us know so we can buy stock in the makers of masking tape? Same should go to @S-boat 55 and his Gloire. Really looking forward to watching this progress. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faraway Posted January 9 Author Share Posted January 9 25 minutes ago, Tegethoff said: buy stock in the makers of masking tape? Jon 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StephenCJ Posted January 17 Share Posted January 17 My USS Ward arrived today. Great service from Black Cat Models. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faraway Posted February 21 Author Share Posted February 21 The time has come to start this build. So, first the bits and bobs that will go together...... A very crisply moulded hull. Many 3D printed parts..... The brass work..... Now, Ben at Black Cat Models https://blackcatmodels.eu/en/ would have this model in these colours......... Which I believe, is how she was at the end of her service. But I do like a good camouflage scheme, so after much interweb wandering I found pictures of her at the start of her service in 1918. Now, I'm not sure of her physical appearance in 1918, so I'll build her with the parts supplied, the only change will be the colours. Then I was pointed towards this book....... And in this fascinating volume there is a picture of Ward in her dazzle scheme. (I hope its ok to post this picture, I'm not sure how copyright works) The book is a real treasure trove for any WW1 ship modeller, mind you there are some dazzle schemes that make my head hurt just to look at them, how you'd mask them I dread to think. I now have the colours from Sovereign Hobbies @Jamie @ Sovereign Hobbies So there we have it. I'm off to give the hull a good scrub and degrease, and prepare it for the base. Jon 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArnoldAmbrose Posted February 21 Share Posted February 21 Gidday Jon, good luck with the camo scheme, it's certainly eye-catching. I did HMS Montgomery (very similar vessel) in 1/600, that was bad enough. You're a braver man than me, but then you've demonstrated that already, on a number of occasions. Regards, Jeff. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neilh Posted February 21 Share Posted February 21 Looks really nice Jon. I am strongly considering splashing out on one of these to build as HMS Salisbury. Keen to see how you get on with this one, especially with all the 3D components. I've been amazed at the Blackcat models details I have been painting up for my current build but have found them tricky to paint when still attached to the " sprues" as they ae moulded so close together but removing them is fraught with danger as they can be quite fragile ( eg I broke 2 Oerlikon shields already!). 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faraway Posted February 21 Author Share Posted February 21 @neilh removing 3D parts from the sprue, is a nightmare. My nemesis is the shoulder pads on Oerlikons 🤬. You’re right about painting them, if only they were in long lines, life would be easier. I used to spray them as they were and then touch up the paint when I took them off, now I take them off, lightly stick them with PVA to a piece of card, then spray them. This works better, especially when there are different colours for different pieces to consider. Jon 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faraway Posted February 21 Author Share Posted February 21 59 minutes ago, ArnoldAmbrose said: Gidday Jon, good luck with the camo scheme, it's certainly eye-catching. I did HMS Montgomery (very similar vessel) in 1/600, that was bad enough. You're a braver man than me, but then you've demonstrated that already, on a number of occasions. Regards, Jeff. Jeff. This scheme is going to be a challenge, I might try and print the picture of the scheme, as near as to the size of the hull as I can, then cut out the shapes to act as templates. I’ve done this on shorter hulls and it does help, this one will be a tight fit on A4, but it should work. Jon 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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