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dickrd

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  1. Re Burza, there are other examples where the Western Approaches design was (incorrectly) inverted like that. Blyskawica looks like she is in one of the official patterns from CB3098R: Check out the Sovereign Hobbies site for the correct appearance of the colours as these printed ones have deteriorated with age. Very hard to say from the poor quality images whether or not it has been simplified to just 3 colours though.
  2. Jon, On the question of her paints above the waterline this question has come up before and this was my answer: "Very tricky question given, as you say, how few images there seem to be. I have attached those that I have been able to find. 1 (IWM A29907) almost makes it look like there were three colours, and some of the hull darks look very dark in 1 & 2 (and 2 is a poor quality image) but less so in 3 & 4. But the photos may have been taken many months apart and the scheme may have evolved over time. Given that Mimosa spent all of her short operational life based in Canada effectively part of the RCN as part of the Newfoundland Force, given the possible timeframe of the photos, and given the design of the scheme, I would rule out the use of MS paints on her. I suspect that once she was based in Canada she would have used commercial maritime paints locally produced in Canada for her periodic repaints If you want to keep it simple a two colour pattern of dark grey BS381C #32 and light grey BS381C #31 (which at RF 31% was significantly darker than 507C at RF 45%) would match what can be seen in the photo 4, which was taken at Halifax in December 1941 (and which is of quite good quality). But, given that we are dealing with b&w photos and given that RCN corvettes seem often not to have followed RN practice but to have gone their own way in their choice of colours/tones, all sorts of other colour combinations are of course possible. There is then the question of whether or not the Free French captain of Mimosa had his own ideas! We could speculate endlessly." On the question of the bottom, as I mentioned in another thread: "re corvettes in general, some were black, some were red, some were grey depending on which manufacturers' product was used and whether Admiralty or merchantile quality. To know which for a particular ship you would need to see her docking reports. I think there were something like 294 Flower Class corvettes built and I have been able to track down the records of 37 of these. For the remainder it is a question of whether anything can be gleaned from photos, film or perhaps artwork and after that statistical probability. Given that Admiralty policy should have resulted increasingly in the use of reduced mercury (merchantile) or non-mercurial quality anti fouling from three of the bottom paint manufacturers on corvettes (the RN ones at least) when using their products, and given that these came only in red, red bottoms should, statistically, have become increasingly common on corvettes as the war wore on. I should say though that something I have not been able to confirm is whether the Canadian subsidiaries of the UK paint manufacturers produced their anti fouling paints for the RCN in the same colours as their UK parent companies did in the UK for supply to the RN. Frustratingly, whilst recording the name of the manufacturer, not one of the Canadian corvette D495s I have seen recorded the colour of the anti fouling paint. But I think one has to say that it seems unlikely that a Canadian subsidiary would manufacture the same product in a different colour to the UK parent company's product." On the question of Mimosa's bottom specifically, no records seem to survive and the available photos don't tell us much. Boot-topping on corvettes was officially discontinued on 11th December 1941, halfway through Mimosa's short life. The change was to be actioned when a vessel was next docked for a bottom repaint. But we don't know if Mimosa ever was redocked after 11th December 1941, and if so when, and (even if we did) we don't know if we are looking at worn/faded boot topping in the photos (as we don't know most of their dates) or the dark colour of a black or red bottom anti-fouling paint coming up to meet the upper hull paints. Overall not much help therefore I'm afraid, but whatever you do I think it would be hard for anyone to say you are wrong! Best wishes, Richard
  3. Yes, a tad so I think, even allowing for the heel. Here is her sister Warrego in a similar sea state to the one you have modelled:
  4. In case you had not spotted it, just to highlight that if depicting Yarra in 1942 her white false bow wave had been re-painted black: Also, whatever time is being modeled, the width of the boot topping in the kit's painting instructions looks too thin to me. In reality it was 3' 3" wide and when drawn on her As Fitted's this looks something like this:
  5. Jon, Back now and have gone through what I have. I'm afraid that I have no answer. The way Deptford appears to be painted in the few pre-war photos we have all show the same paint design which seems to match no official scheme. The photos I can find of Deptford are in my opinion all shortly after her completion in August 1935 and are in Home waters. Some I think are on the Medway. This photo is typical: She is already or is about to be assigned to the East Indies Station and within that command to the Persian Gulf. I wanted to check the AFO's etc to see if ships there had a slightly different livery to the rest of the East Indies Station but this was not so. They were overall white with primrose yellow funnels as elsewhere. Here is Fleetwood, also assigned to the Persian Gulf, in Home waters and correctly painted: So what were Chatham up to delivering Deptford as seen in the photos? It seems it is not even as if they got the wrong memo about where Deptford was going and painted her for the China Station instead. It looks as if on the China Station sloops of the Grimsby Class had the grey on everything above the line of the forecastle deck as seen in this photo of Leith - note the after deckhouse is white whereas on Deptford it is dark: And to confirm that this design was not an aberration nor confined to the sloops of the Grimsby Class, this is Carlisle on the China Station, again with white aft deckhouse: So at the moment my thoughts are that perhaps either a) the photos all show Deptford shortly after delivery still in an undercoat on her hull and red oxide primer on the upperworks (rather like the Renown in the pictures of her departing Portsmouth for machinery trials in 1939 prior to recommissioning) but this is perhaps unlikely as she appears 'finished' or b) that Chatham did indeed somehow make a complete Horlicks of things for Deptford’s delivery and the paint scheme was corrected shortly afterwards. What we need of course are photos of Deptford from late 1935 to 1939. Best wishes.
  6. I have now read her Wikipedia entry and it shows that she never served on the China Station. In any case I also see now that she commissioned after the China Station gave up the grey uppers/white hull livery and adopted overall light grey. I do have copies of all the RN AFOs concerning paint schemes so I will have a look at them as soon as I can in a few days time.
  7. Jon, I am away from my files for a few days but I am suspicious of the suggested colour scheme. Clearly it is for one of the peacetime overseas stations. The hull colour would therefore simply be (whatever was the standard pattern number) white. The was no off white. If it looked off white in a photo then either it was something else or it was raining or it was dirty. I also wonder slightly about the upper works. Did Deptford ever serve on the China Station? If so fine, but if not then we may be looking at another colour up there. Without access to my copies of the various AFOs I cannot remember how the Persian Gulf detachment of the East Indies Station painted their upper works in the thirties. If @Jamie @ Sovereign Hobbiesdoes not see this and answer definitively from the AFOs in the meantime I will check on my return.
  8. With the caveat that I have not researched Italian anti-fouling colours, this is the sort of green that you seem to see on the bottom of models of Italian WW2 era warships in their museums:
  9. She was in a shade of Mountbatten Pink (overall).
  10. Look forward to seeing them. I have to say though that an "off white (RAF sky like colour*)" suggested by @Flintstone as being on the RN Submarine Museum model of Storm might perhaps seem to accord better than pure white given what can be seen in photos of Storm in the Indian Ocean in this scheme: Does any one have any photos of the model at Gosport? It would be helpful to see the tone of the green on that model. * @Flintstone Not knowing anything much about aircraft colours it would be helpful if you could post an image of or link to the RAF Sky you refer to as I seem to recall debates about there being was more than one RAF WW2 'Sky'?
  11. Can you say where this information comes from please?
  12. The book on Tally-Ho was first published in 1974. Human memory is fallible and the recollections of those interviewed for the book some three decades or so after the events described should not be taken as gospel. In this case they can be compared with photographic and documentary evidence. Here is an early March 1944 photo showing Tally-Ho and the damage to her caused by the Japanese propeller. She is in bright sunlight. There is a clear demarcation line on the top of the ballast tank with what is below clearly darker than what is above. Her bottom appears to have been dark rather than light: This is confirmed by her docking reports D.495 which record that her bottom was BLACK at the time, both the protective and (outermost) anti-fouling coats, not "light green". To my eye her casing and conning tower do not look likely to have been "light green" either: The terms 'light' and 'dark' are subjective. The (genuine/contemporary) colour images and contemporary artwork I have seen of submarines in that theatre at that time (1944-45) show an olive green in use, often with a black pattern superimposed: For what it's worth I would describe the tone of the green as 'medium'. My guess is that it might perhaps have been one of the British Standard 987C camouflage colours, perhaps No.15 which would presumably have been readily available (but others may know more about that range and be better judges. @Jamie @ Sovereign Hobbies?).
  13. Interesting to note in the port bow July 1942 photo referenced by @Our Ned that the diagonal camouflage panel on the front face of the bridge presents as darker still than the darks in the late April 1942 photos taken in Belfast Lough such as FL21547. The reproduction of this photo in the book is not of the highest quality but this diagonal dark does not appear in the photo to be as dark as MS1 would normally present, merely a 507A sort of tone. If this really is the case then this has knock on effects on options for what the rest of the (lighter) darks actually were. We really need a good quality version of the July 1942 photo.
  14. First a comment on the Sovereign Hobbies version of the scheme posted above. In my copy of the original in CB 3098R of 1943 (Plate 113) the camouflage panel nearest the bow is G45 not G20. @Jamie @ Sovereign Hobbies may have found a different one so it would be good to get this clarified. But on Avon Vale it looks to have been G45 given what we see in the photos. Re pendant numbers, although the 1943 CB did specify specify G45, white or G20 depending on the background camouflage paint, I have authentic 1944 colour photos quite clearly showing the use of red and black on a couple of ships. I also know that I have come across an order not to use other colours such as red which to my mind says other colours were used or the order would not have been needed to try to put a stop to it! Given the tone I would have said Avon Vale's might have been indeed have been B30 below the bridge, but the one on the stern could have been G20.
  15. @k7rkx I agree with you. It won't have been G20, it's too light for that. It won't have been B20 either. That too would be too dark for what we see. It is not an option anyhow as B20 that was not invented until the Spring of 1944. Going back to your suggested positioning of the other colours in your post of Wednesday 3rd April there is one final tweak I would like to suggest. Starboard side X turret G10 rather than B15. In this Plymouth Sound image both turrets are trained in the same direction so their sides should be the same if they were the same colour, but Y appears lighter (the same sort of difference is visible in the broadside photos above): Also I found this undated image which does seem to support my idea of a subsequent repaint replacing B15 with G10 - the diagonal on the bridge superstructure appears the same tone as the other darks, as does the aftmost diagonal on the hull and X & Y turrets likewise the same:
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