Humbrol enamel range - 51 colours deleted

[Casey]

This is the Gen 2. I have 14 mil droppers without that Gen 2 mark.

 

The Gen 1 is horrible.

 

And I've tried a lot of them - here is full data:

 

 

 

Edited May 29, 2023 by Casey

[Space Ranger]

On 5/27/2023 at 8:12 PM, sapperastro said:

Not sure if this has been already laid to rest, but after searching through the Humbrol website, I found this

 

https://d63oxfkn1m8sf.cloudfront.net/7616/6980/5182/Humbrol_-_Shade_Chart_28-11-22_Online_Version_Web.pdf

 

As you can see, the enamel line has been gutted.

Take another look. That list doesn’t appear “gutted” to me. In fact, it includes all the colors you and others have reported as discontinued!

[Ngantek]

5 minutes ago, Space Ranger said:

Take another look. That list doesn’t appear “gutted” to me. In fact, it includes all the colors you and others have reported as discontinued!

If you look more closely, you'll see that these colours no longer have listings in the enamel product # column. 

[sapperastro]

1 hour ago, Space Ranger said:

Take another look. That list doesn’t appear “gutted” to me. In fact, it includes all the colors you and others have reported as discontinued!

 

You made me get excited for a second, but alas, as I saw when I first looked at it, those entries are gone from the enamel column. The acrylics have picked them up.

[Space Ranger]

2 hours ago, Ngantek said:

If you look more closely, you'll see that these colours no longer have listings in the enamel product # column. 

I see what you mean. My mistake!🤪

[sapperastro]

1 hour ago, Space Ranger said:

I see what you mean. My mistake

 

All good. It's a shock to the system when a big part of your paint system is turfed. This happened to me when I tried switching over to acrylics long ago (after Humbrols earlier demise) with the ending of Pollyscale too. Then Model Master was tanked, which made up another part of my go-to paint line. It's getting pretty old now trying to keep enjoying a hobby when my tools keep getting either "reformulated" into crappier products, or taken away altogether.

 

Just remembered that Mike's Humbrol colour mixes for armour models are out the window now too, of which I made a lot of use. I wonder if Mike Starmer can work some of his magic with other paint lines (preferably Revell and Tamiya enamels, haha).

[Casey]

I've got a small collection of those Humbrol's Mysterious Gen II acrylics, and I am having a (bad) dejavu

 

If this is the "Humbrols best acrylics" yet, then they need to really really learn how to make those. This paint is a *autocensored to not to annoy @Mike too much*

 

The consistency: Some paint is tar-like, some feels like water. Some have consistency of a previously-eaten lunch after a long day in pub.

Bottles: opening them to add mixing stones or balls require more strength than I should use on a paint bottle. They are also non-elastic so squeezing them feels like trying to push paint from a glass jar.

 

You judge yourself if you can call that a paint:

 

Humbrol 157, Gen II.

 

This was fully mixed - 10 minutes of mixing on vortex shaker with mixing balls inside bottle.

 

Humbrol 225 Gen II: *looks* bit better, but I could not mix it inside bottle with just shaking as intended, due to it being way too thick - metal balls took a while to even sink into this substance when I added them to bottle. I had to to take it off the bottle and I should have probably filtered it since it still had some crunchy chalky bits inside, which you can see on bottom of drawdown. It will become more visible after the paint dries, so I'll add next photo then.

 

 

Update: Here is how Humbrol 225 Gen II looks after a short while of drying. You can see the chalky bits in full glory. I do not want to put that into my good airbrush to test its airbrushability

 

 

If this was my first acrylic, I'd never ever touch acrylics in my life.

Edited June 1, 2023 by Casey

[Paul Lucas]

Having looked at the new colour chart linked above, having used Humbrol Enamels for over 50 years and having seen @Casey's post above, I really don't have any words on this subject that I can use here.

 

 

[ckw]

7 hours ago, Casey said:

Some paint is tar-like, some feels like water. Some have consistency of a previously-eaten lunch after a long day in pub

To be fair, the enamels are not much better in this respect! My assumption is that it is cheaper to produce acrylics (or perhaps cheaper to package and ship) and eventually the whole enamel range will go. Every day it seems to get harder for us enamalists to find paint - all the ranges available to me have frequent stock issues or have removed colours from their range. I've tried, but water based acrylics just don't compare. I think I may start experimenting with lacquers on my next few builds.

 

Cheers

 

Colin

[JamesP]

To get back on topic I’ve just found out that 72 khaki drill is a very good match for the deleted 187 dark stone. Slightly darker and browner

[Jamie @ Sovereign Hobbies]

3 hours ago, ckw said:

To be fair, the enamels are not much better in this respect! My assumption is that it is cheaper to produce acrylics (or perhaps cheaper to package and ship) and eventually the whole enamel range will go. Every day it seems to get harder for us enamalists to find paint - all the ranges available to me have frequent stock issues or have removed colours from their range. I've tried, but water based acrylics just don't compare. I think I may start experimenting with lacquers on my next few builds.

 

Cheers

 

Colin

 

You're correct it's certainly cheaper to distribute water dispersible acrylics, and that's a significant chunk of the final retail price unfortunately.

[sapperastro]

On 6/1/2023 at 10:45 AM, Casey said:

If this is the "Humbrols best acrylics" yet, then they need to really really learn how to make those.

 

They did have some reliable acrylic paints back in the old Hull days when Humbrol actually made paint, I still have a number of pots here, and all of them are still fine and work well. They came in little white plastic pots, with 12ml of paint. These ones I have must be 30 odd years old now.

 

Since that factory went up in a fire, and the original company died, these new paints are all contracted out. It would be interesting to know who is making these new versions that look so dire.

 

Just a shame all round.

Edited June 2, 2023 by sapperastro

[Paul Lucas]

Now that my initial hissy fit at having one of my toys taken away has subsided, it occurs to me that this is a golden opportunity going begging if Humbrol wish to reorientate their paint range from enamel to acrylic.

 

We can see that if they want to, they can produce reasonably accurate matches to official colours, for example the reformulated Azure Blue seen above and the Luftwaffe colours that were matched to the samples in Ken Merrick's books.

 

If they could produce a consistently high quality paint medium and package it in such a way that it could be used by the customer without their having to use pliers and brute force to open the container and get at the product, they could perhaps rebrand the range, or possibly even (re?)launch a new one.

 

Am I the only person who thinks that the phrase 'Humbrol Authentic Acrylics' or 'Humbrol Acrylic Authentics' just rolls off the tongue?

 

If the marketing people at Humbrol should see this, I'll be happy with 1%. Thank you.

[ckw]

IMHO Humbrol hasn't produced a quality pot of paint since the original Humbrol Authentics range of the (I think) mid to late 70s. Regardless of colour matching, my experience is that producing a  high quality paint without using nasty solvents seems to be impossible (ie. experience of using, not making, the stuff).

 

Cheers

 

Colin

[stevehnz]

In Humbrols defense, I've found their recent production enamels work very well, good opacity, they don't settle out & when thinned slightly, brush paint very nicely. I do struggle with their business model though, a seeming random collection of often similar colours, some of which are decent matches to FS & BS shades, many though it is hard to determine which colours they are supposed to represent & some notable omissions from their range, which existed post authentics but have since disappeared & if one can believe what is written inhere, have been missed ever since. Off the top of my head, 108 WW1 green, 141 Light Sea grey & 146 ADC grey come to mind, still useful shades on many modeller's benches. A little thought & targeted promotion on Humbrols part could well see a much better appreciated range in existence, as long as they can sort there QC problems out. We may as well admit that in todays world acrylics are the future & I've no problem with that as long as they're good paint.

Steve.

[sapperastro]

12 hours ago, ckw said:

IMHO Humbrol hasn't produced a quality pot of paint since the original Humbrol Authentics range of the (I think) mid to late 70s. Regardless of colour matching, my experience is that producing a  high quality paint without using nasty solvents seems to be impossible (ie. experience of using, not making, the stuff).

 

Cheers

 

Colin

 

I didn't notice any real difference between the 70's and 80's paint. Even the 90's stuff wasn't far off, quality wise. What enamel paint were you using apart from Humbrol?

[sapperastro]

3 hours ago, stevehnz said:

In Humbrols defense, I've found their recent production enamels work very well, good opacity, they don't settle out & when thinned slightly, brush paint very nicely.

 

I have had tins like this, but then I have had tins that need multiple coats to get full coverage. For example, I have been finishing up a Panzer IV; the 94 went on ok for a primer and first colour coat, though it took 3 coats (poor compared to my last tin of 90's paint, that did the job in 2 coats, with one almost getting there).

 

The new tin of 160 was one thin coat coverage. Perfect, and apart from the fact you couldn't get away with the old "paint from the tin" like you could with the ancient Humbrols, it easily matched up with the oldies in performance.

 

The new tin of 117 however is absolute rubbish. I did 4 coats, and it still didn't have full coverage. Even painting it straight from the tin onto a spare bit of plastic didn't have full coverage. My last tin of old 117 had one coat coverage.

 

All the new ones were the sticker with number and small label new tins. 94 on bare plastic, the others on top of 94.

 

So it isn't that they CAN'T make a new, decent enamel paint, it is that the quality control seems to be shocking, rather than the fault of environmental laws, or what have you. And it isn't like we aren't paying through the nose for this stuff. The price per ml of hobby paint is astronomically higher than even the most expensive DIY stuff in the big tins.

 

3 hours ago, stevehnz said:

I do struggle with their business model though, a seeming random collection of often similar colours, some of which are decent matches to FS & BS shades, many though it is hard to determine which colours they are supposed to represent & some notable omissions from their range, which existed post authentics but have since disappeared & if one can believe what is written inhere, have been missed ever since. Off the top of my head, 108 WW1 green, 141 Light Sea grey & 146 ADC grey come to mind, still useful shades on many modeller's benches. A little thought & targeted promotion on Humbrols part could well see a much better appreciated range in existence, as long as they can sort there QC problems out.

 

Indeed. And it isn't like people haven't been badgering them for years for certain colours. The whole "Humbrol 30" for RAF dark green really says it all though. The fact they haven't changed that colour, or stopped putting it on Airfix instructions for decades tells its own story.

 

3 hours ago, stevehnz said:

We may as well admit that in todays world acrylics are the future & I've no problem with that as long as they're good paint.

 

That's another can of worms entirely, especially for brush painters. Out of the brands I have tried, they all have shortcomings in one way or another, and the couple of brands that worked really well for me have been discontinued. Have you managed to find any acrylic paint lines that tick all the boxes?

[stevehnz]

1 minute ago, sapperastro said:

So it isn't that they CAN'T make a new, decent enamel paint, it is that the quality control seems to be shocking, rather than the fault of environmental laws, or what have you. And it isn't like we aren't paying through the nose for this stuff. The price per ml of hobby paint is astronomically higher than even the most expensive DIY stuff in the big tins.

I've maybe been lucky in the few I've bought, I did buy a tin of 108 WW1 blue a while ago, underside colour for middle east Hunters, Yeeecch! a vivid shreiking turquoisey blue. Bought another the other day from another outlet, just was I thought it should look, so what does that say about their QC, the both painted out ok though.

5 minutes ago, sapperastro said:

Indeed. And it isn't like people haven't been badgering them for years for certain colours. The whole "Humbrol 30" for RAF dark green really says it all though. The fact they haven't changed that colour, or stopped putting it on Airfix instructions for decades tells its own story.

Yup.

5 minutes ago, sapperastro said:

That's another can of worms entirely, especially for brush painters. Out of the brands I have tried, they all have shortcomings in one way or another, and the couple of brands that worked really well for me have been discontinued. Have you managed to find any acrylic paint lines that tick all the boxes?

I've mainly fiddled with Vallejo Model Colour, I like the way it paints, a drop of flow improver, aka bubble liquid, helps but it lacks some resilience compared to enamels. It is nice to use & a few Model Air I've bought recently also have brushed OK.

Steve.

[ckw]

2 hours ago, sapperastro said:

 

I didn't notice any real difference between the 70's and 80's paint. Even the 90's stuff wasn't far off, quality wise. What enamel paint were you using apart from Humbrol?

My comment was more about the exceptionally good Authentic range, not general Humbrol paint. I finished of a tin not that long ago which must have been at least 30 years old. Still perfect.

 

Other enamels I've used (or still use) Xtracolor, Colourcoats, Revell, Aeromaster. All better than current Humbrol.  Unfortunately for me, Humbrol is the most readily available, so I do persevere with it from time to time

 

Cheers

 

Colin

 

[Casey]

Just to give you all an example of how wrong consistency of a paint you can expect in those dropper bottles, here is Gen II Humbrol 248.

 

I had to squish the bottle really hard, that's why there is some splatter. Good luck mixing it in bottle.

 

 

I think I'll wait for Gen III with update of Humbrol color measurements...

Edited June 3, 2023 by Casey

[Rob G]

14 minutes ago, Casey said:

 

 

Now boy, that there, I say, that right there is HIIIIIGH quality stuff!

 

Instant paint, just add water.

 

In all seriousness, if that's what's arriving in shops from a newly produced paint range, both Humbrol and their suppliers should get ready to go broke.

[Casey]

6 hours ago, Rob G said:

Instant paint, just add water.

I did just that and it turned to be spreadable over the drawdown chart, but not with a drawdown bar. I used artist knife to smear it like a wall plaster. I can measure if it is right color but that would be a surprise if it was.

 

*update* It is. It is around 1.8 DE from my other Humbrol 248 samples.

 

I am not judging Humbrol engineers skills (if they are still any working...), they used to make awesome paints, I just want their awesome products back! Is it that much to ask?

Edited June 4, 2023 by Casey
I did measure it anyway!

[sapperastro]

On 6/4/2023 at 9:31 AM, Casey said:

Just to give you all an example of how wrong consistency of a paint you can expect in those dropper bottles, here is Gen II Humbrol 248.

 

I had to squish the bottle really hard, that's why there is some splatter. Good luck mixing it in bottle.

 

 

I think I'll wait for Gen III with update of Humbrol color measurements...

 

Hmm, very artistic.

 

On a serious note, they had a decent range starting up with those 18ml pots, then they turned to dropper bottles and....this stuff.

 

It's like the initial screw tops after the failure of the flip top versions. The first screw top paints were fine, and it looked like things were on the up, and then suddenly the pot label, and the paint in them, changed into some oily, sandpaper like substance.

 

Same with the enamel paint. First release tins from the new guys were fine. Then whoever they contracted out to, sent production off into the never never, and we had all sorts of problems. So they brought it back to the UK, and all new problems have emerged.

 

New Humbrol has to be the most unlucky company in existence, or something.

[Space Ranger]

On 6/3/2023 at 6:31 PM, Casey said:

Just to give you all an example of how wrong consistency of a paint you can expect in those dropper bottles, here is Gen II Humbrol 248.

 

I had to squish the bottle really hard, that's why there is some splatter. Good luck mixing it in bottle.

 

 

I think I'll wait for Gen III with update of Humbrol color measurements...

I hope you’re sending those images to Humbrol!

[sapperastro]

Just to put the final lid on things, I emailed Humbrol asking them about the discontinued colours from the list I posted earlier. The reply;

 

Quote

Hello Greg,

Thank you for your email, the range of colours has been reduced the reason behind this decision was certain paints were not selling as the production volumes demands. the paint was reformulated with a alternative ingredient.

The reduction of pant colours will be permanent. 

 

Kind Regards

 

Glen Richardson
Technical Services
T:+44 (0)1843 233512
www.hornbyhobbies.co.uk

 

 

So there we go. Get em while they are hot I guess, because they won't be coming back.