Short Stirling interior equipment.

[MOK61]

Everytime I sit down at my work table, or whenever I'm sleeplessly surfing the interweb looking for more reference photographs, I end up with more questions than answers. I guess that's part of the joy of modelling and research!

 

I have seen lots of photographs of various marks of Stirling, some showing factory-fresh airframes, probably taken for publicity purposes or to illustrate training manuals, which show the interiors of the fuselages absolutely rammed with all sorts of bits and pieces of equipment, some quite large.

 

Contemporary published cutaway drawings label these as things like escape ladders, smoke float and reconnaissance flare stowage racks, an emergency stretcher and, strangest of all to me, a maintenance plank. No, I had no idea either, but it was, apparently, like a length of psp, but probably light alloy on a ladder frame, to be slung between two nacelles to allow engines to be maintained while operating from unimproved forward airfields without scaffolding towers or gantries.

 

So, before I get carried away scratch building stuff which will never be seen again once the halves of my Italeri Stirling fuselage are joined, my question is:  how much of this auxiliary kit would have been carried routinely on bombing missions in northern Europe? Particularly in light of the need for speed and the poor service ceiling of the Stirling.

 

My own thought is that the safety and emergency equipment would stay, leaving just the plank and possibly the smoke floats and parachute flares as surplus to immediate requirements. Even a fairly radical weight-loss programme would not save the equivalent of a single bomb or container of incendiaries.

 

So maybe I've answered my own question... 

 

Does anyone know any better?

 

One day I might learn to ask simple, clear questions!

 

Thanks in advance, my patient friends.

 

 

[Dave Swindell]

11 hours ago, MOK61 said:

strangest of all to me, a maintenance plank. No, I had no idea either, but it was, apparently, like a length of psp, but probably light alloy on a ladder frame, to be slung between two nacelles to allow engines to be maintained while operating from unimproved forward airfields without scaffolding towers or gantries.

Given the Stirling's flying boat heritage, that shouldn't be a surprise - engine access on a Sunderland:-

 

 

[georgeusa]

I've not built the Italeri Sterling, but I have built a few Airfix Sterlings.  Once the two fuselage halves are joined the chances of you seeing anything inside the fuselage is slim to none unless using a pin light, an optical visor and holding the kit in various strange and weird angles.  I think the scratch built items would be ones you would remember only with photos taken before the fuselage halves are joined.  If that is enough for you, then go for it.  Otherwise, I just tape the two fuselage halves together and see what is still visiable through the canopy and window openings and go from there.

[Troy Smith]

16 hours ago, MOK61 said:

Does anyone know any better?

@12jaguar is John from the Stirling project, he's you best bet, but @Heather Kay  has just done one, and got some info off John,

@woody37 @general melchett may have some pointers.

 

HTH

[georgeusa]

Here is the link to Heather Kay's great build of the Stirling:

 

[MilneBay]

6 hours ago, georgeusa said:

I've not built the Italeri Sterling, but I have built a few Airfix Sterlings.  Once the two fuselage halves are joined the chances of you seeing anything inside the fuselage is slim to none unless using a pin light, an optical visor and holding the kit in various strange and weird angles.  I think the scratch built items would be ones you would remember only with photos taken before the fuselage halves are joined.  If that is enough for you, then go for it.  Otherwise, I just tape the two fuselage halves together and see what is still visiable through the canopy and window openings and go from there.

 

Some years ago I decided to scratch build the interior of the Airfix Hampden. It was an exercise in futility as far as visual impact goes. Once buttoned up you can't see anything. I even did the Elsan toilet, and the access door to the rear upper gunner position - yes there is a door and it also has a little clear panel in it. It was, I admit fun, but once buttoned up only my imagination can picture it, plus some pics I took at the time.  😄 

[MOK61]

10 hours ago, Dave Swindell said:

Given the Stirling's flying boat heritage, that shouldn't be a surprise - engine access on a Sunderland:-

 

 

 

Of course! Duh! Why didn't I think of that? I blame my age. 😉

Edited August 24, 2023 by MOK61

[MOK61]

7 hours ago, georgeusa said:

I've not built the Italeri Sterling, but I have built a few Airfix Sterlings.  Once the two fuselage halves are joined the chances of you seeing anything inside the fuselage is slim to none unless using a pin light, an optical visor and holding the kit in various strange and weird angles.  I think the scratch built items would be ones you would remember only with photos taken before the fuselage halves are joined.  If that is enough for you, then go for it.  Otherwise, I just tape the two fuselage halves together and see what is still visiable through the canopy and window openings and go from there.

 

That's excellent advice, but sadly "doing the right thing" has never been my strong point! Thanks anyway. 

[MOK61]

10 hours ago, MilneBay said:

 

Some years ago I decided to scratch build the interior of the Airfix Hampden. It was an exercise in futility as far as visual impact goes. Once buttoned up you can't see anything. I even did the Elsan toilet, and the access door to the rear upper gunner position - yes there is a door and it also has a little clear panel in it. It was, I admit fun, but once buttoned up only my imagination can picture it, plus some pics I took at the time.  😄 

 

I do intend taking a fair few photos, for which I shall borrow my lad's fancy DSLR with the macro lens, but if the horrors revealed are anything like those in the few simple snaps I've taken with my phone then they may never be seen here! 😉

Edited August 24, 2023 by MOK61

[LDSModeller]

23 hours ago, MOK61 said:

Contemporary published cutaway drawings label these as things like escape ladders, smoke float and reconnaissance flare stowage racks, an emergency stretcher and, strangest of all to me, a maintenance plank. No, I had no idea either, but it was, apparently, like a length of psp, but probably light alloy on a ladder frame, to be slung between two nacelles to allow engines to be maintained while operating from unimproved forward airfields without scaffolding towers or gantries.

FWIW from my own experiences, I would take these Published "Contemporary" drawings with a atom sized grain

of NaCl

 

I have some drawings of a "Sunderland" that has items that are either a "Fanciful" rendition,

or the artist had heard something from his Mothers 10th cousin's cousin Vinny who had

read/heard it somewhere.

A prime example is a Sunderland carrying Spare Propeller blades just aft of the mezzanine floor.

To my knowledge, Sunderland's never carried those, nor would the crew have the equipment to

carry out such a repair.  I do have a photo of a Sunderland propeller being changed while on the water.

A whole jig was required, that had to come in by tender from the base it was stationed at.

If you can find a proper gazetted Aircraft manual or pilots notes, they will give you some more definitive

amounts of detail, and will also (I'm using Sunderland Manuals here) specify if an item of equipment was

to be actively used or "Nice to Have" such as a ice box in the Sunderland's galley, but only on special

order from Shorts

At the end of the day, research for your model can be rewarding and also seriously frustrating

If you have sufficient intel that an item was indeed carried then by all means include, if in doubt leave out.

 

Finally, it's your model, your "rendition" built from the best available information to you at the time.

If you're happy with the result, that's all that really matters

(Yes, I know we're all driven by that goal of perfection (speaking from experience here ))

 

Happy building

 

Regards

 

Alan

[sprue]

Here's my effort there might be a few clues .

Good luck

Mike

[MilneBay]

2 hours ago, sprue said:

Here's my effort there might be a few clues .

Good luck

Mike

 

That's an impressive piece of modelling.

[sprue]

1 hour ago, MilneBay said:

 

That's an impressive piece of modelling.

Thank you

[MOK61]

3 hours ago, sprue said:

Here's my effort there might be a few clues .

Good luck

Mike

 

Thanks Mike. I had seen your build and was mightily impressed! I'm only just getting to grips, literally, with photo-etch so I'm sure that WEM set would be way beyond my capabilities. I've already ruined, or lost, enough pieces of the Italeri brass fret that I bought an Eduard pre-painted Zoom set as a replacement and now the carpet monster has had so many of the control levers and seat belts that I've had to buy another one. Better not let SWMBO find out! 😉

 

Onwards and upwards!

[12jaguar]

hi, sorry a bit late to the party.

 

A lot of the items in the Italeri kit are quite fanciful, notably the 'galley' installed aft of the Navigators bulkhead, you'd only find that on a Mk V fitted out for passengers.

 

regarding other items, the only thing routinely carried was a case in the centre section for a 'Tropicalisation kit', this also had some survival equipment such as water canisters and heliographs.

 

I expect that on ops where the aircraft had to fly a considerable distance such as the raids on Turin when flying on to north Africa, extra maintenance equipment might have been carried, but knowing the constraints of flying through the Alps en route, I think they'd have been dispensed with to save weight

 

John

[general melchett]

Hope this helps; it's the Italeri kit (still work in progress here, more details added like maps, lights, stowage straps etc were added) with many modifications and alterations that we built for our Stirling display (Bomber Command SIG) around eight years ago in collaboration with the Stirling Project at Telford. If you want more information on the aircraft, I recommend contacting Peter at the Stirling Project; he and his team are a wealth of knowledge, and their work on building a Stirling forward fuselage is highly impressive.

 

Just noticed Peter's reply, he's right, some of the kit's interior is somewhat fictitious...

 

 

 

Edited August 26, 2023 by general melchett

[MOK61]

On 25/08/2023 at 17:11, 12jaguar said:

hi, sorry a bit late to the party.

 

A lot of the items in the Italeri kit are quite fanciful, notably the 'galley' installed aft of the Navigators bulkhead, you'd only find that on a Mk V fitted out for passengers.

 

Thanks John, I'm coming to the same conclusion myself!

On 26/08/2023 at 10:29, general melchett said:

Hope this helps; it's the Italeri kit (still work in progress here, more details added like maps, lights, stowage straps etc were added) with many modifications and alterations that we built for our Stirling display (Bomber Command SIG) around eight years ago in collaboration with the Stirling Project at Telford. If you want more information on the aircraft, I recommend contacting Peter at the Stirling Project; he and his team are a wealth of knowledge, and their work on building a Stirling forward fuselage is highly impressive.

 

Just noticed Peter's reply, he's right, some of the kit's interior is somewhat fictitious...

 

 

 

 Thankyou, your Generalship, sir. I've started making some of those modifications myself. I am my own worst enemy, as I started this build as an OOB mojo-booster, but having built and painted the front office I then decided I wasn't happy with the detail and started adding more, such as the stowed armour plate, the platform for the de-icer tank, raised pilot's armrest and a representation of the folding step up into the cockpit stowed against the second pilot's seat. I was building up the courage to start a WiP thread, but in my digital photos it looks like I've carved the cockpit out of balsa with a chain saw! 

 

Should I pull it apart, again, and tear out the galley? It'll never be seen again once the fuselage is buttoned up so I think I can live with it.

 

Perversely, sorry matron, even though they'll never be seen either, I would like to put in a representation of the ammunition tanks for the rear turret. Most photos I've seen show them forward of the dorsal turret about level with the escape hatch, which makes sense with regard to the CofG but at least one shows them further aft, between the dorsal turret and the flare chutes. 

 

Flare chutes? More missing details! 😢 

 

That swooshing noise was my mojo exiting stage left!