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The Tin Mossie - Vickers 432


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For this group build I will be doing the Vickers 432. An aircraft originally intended to hunt at high altitude enemy intruders. Unfortunately, for Vickers it was not a successful aircraft.  

I have been obsessed with this aircraft since the mid 90s and even turned a wooden plug, with the vain hope of vac forming over it. Here you see it in comparison the the resin Kora fuselage that I will be using for my build. My first source was Aeroplane Monthly, March 1992 that really got me excited about the subject. I reckon I must have scaled up the general arrangement drawing from the Putnam book on Vickers to give a shape for my wooden fuselage.

IMG_2985

Here you see displayed on a page of Tony Buttler's " British experimental combat aircraft of WW II".

 

IMG_2984

 

The box art is a bit 'pony', but I hope to make a half decent job of the kit.

 

Big question, What colour was the topside ? Dark Green and Dark Earth or Oceon Grey and Dark Green (or whatever the Grey/green camouflage was ?) Answers on a postcard

 

 

 

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50 minutes ago, Adrian Hills said:

What colour was the topside ? Dark Green and Dark Earth or Oceon Grey and Dark Green

Fighter prototypes were camouflaged above in standard fighter colours,  which was Day fighter Scheme, so Dark Green/Ocean Grey.

The A type underwing roundels are of note. 

vickers-type-432-heavy-fighter-prototype

 

 

If you put Vickers Type 432 in a google image search there are some useful images turn up

 

Perhaps worth noting the standard high altitude scheme was this, as seen on the Welkin at the bottom,  Med Sea Grey over PRU blue, though the Welkin prototype was DG/OG over yellow, as detailed in the text.

Meteor,%20Whirlwind%20&%20Welkin%2011%20

Meteor,%20Whirlwind%20&%20Welkin%2011%20

 

 

perhaps worth considering for a speculative operational scheme.

 

HTH

 

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Nice choice Adrian! Great to see the lesser known types getting some attention here :D 

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Steve, there is a line drawing in a book released during the war- forget the name.

 

Troy, Hi, Thanks for your suggestions. I’m wondering if it was first painted dark earth/dark green and then later, perhaps when the inner wing was increased in chord, had grey instead of brown. There was also a change in the fuselage roundel

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On 15/11/2020 at 21:54, Adrian Hills said:

Steve, there is a line drawing in a book released during the war- forget the name.

Aircraft of the Fighting Powers, Vol.7 I think, had the type 432. 

It's the last one of the series from 1947.  Its the only one of the series I have....now  where did I put it?

On 15/11/2020 at 21:54, Adrian Hills said:

 

Troy, Hi, Thanks for your suggestions. I’m wondering if it was first painted dark earth/dark green and then later, perhaps when the inner wing was increased in chord, had grey instead of brown. There was also a change in the fuselage roundel

a google says first flight of the Type 432 was Dec 1942.

Ocean Grey replaced Dark Earth in August 1941, the change from the A type to C type roundels was May 1942. 

British Aviation Colurs of WW2 in the 42/43 sections states prototypes should be TLS, TSS, or DFS, as the Type 432 was a fighter,  I presume that DFS is what would be required.

 

Prototype colours have been discussed before, regarding the Meteor,  

and this was helpfully included, from the above book. 

 

"Someone mentioned the official orders for colours (shortened for brevity):

 

A.513  Camouflage Colouring and Markings of Aircraft (10 July 1941).

A.M.0. A.926/40, as amended by A.30/41 and A.157/41, is super­seded by the instructions contained in this order, which take effect immediately.

3. R.A.F. landplanes.

(i) Operational aircraft for service at home.

(a) Temperate land scheme camouflage, consisting of two colours, dark green and dark earth, is to be used for the upper surfaces of all aircraft, except those mentioned in sub-para. (c) below.

(c)  Night fighters are to be coloured matt black (special night) on all surface

(viii)  Prototype, and experimental aircraft.

(a) The upper surface, to be camouflaged in accordance with the instructions contained in sub­-para. (i) (a) above.

 

A.664  Camouflage, Colouring and Markings of Aircraft (2 July 1942).

(AMOs A513/41 and A687/41 cancelled)

1.  For convenience and easy reference, the camouflage, colouring and marking schemes authorised for R.A.F., naval and civil aircraft are set out in tables at appendices I, II and III, respectively, to this order. 

3. Camouflage.

(i) The temperate land scheme consists of dark green and dark earth.

(ii)   The temperate sea scheme consists of dark slate grey and extra dark sea grey.

(iii)   The day fighter scheme consists of dark green and ocean grey.

(iv)  The desert scheme consists of dark earth and middle stone.

 

A.664/42  APPENDIX 1

(Amended to A1096/42, issued 8 Oct 1942 and A1377/42 issued 24 December 1942)

7. Prototype and experimental aircraft and aircraft attached to experimental establishments

(i) Power driven

Upper surface camouflage - Temperate land scheme, temperate sea scheme or day fighter scheme

Under surfaces camouflage - Yellow

 

My personal opinion based on the above is that the prototypes would have been painted in the day fighter scheme of grey/green given the official orders from 2nd July 1942 and given that it was a prototype of a day fighter."

 

 

note

"If we go back to posting 14, there is a photo showing what is argued as being an early view of the prototype.  I'd point out that the yellow on the roundel and on the P marking appears dark, as does the red of the roundel and fin flash.  In which case I'd expect Dark Earth also to appear dark, because of its red content.  The camouflage colours however show a high contrast, which I believe strongly suggests that the aircraft at this stage was in Dark Green/Ocean Grey."

this photo

meteor%20prototype%20no.%201.jpg

 

the Type 432 does lack yellow leading edges and a Sky though.

 

About your only hope of a 'better' answer  would be study of photos, and seeing what filters/film were in use.   

Not sure of the rules allow,  but I know you like outside the box,  doing it the official high altitude scheme would be different, (and attractive)  or the the Mosquito XV scheme, Deep Sky overall,  I know you have a Compucolour(?) tin of Deep Sky in the stash.....

 

 

HTH

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  • 4 weeks later...

Bit busy right now decorating a bathroom but hope to put my decent mask on soon and cut the resin up.

 

Just to add fuel to the fire of the colour debate here are instructions of the kit !!

 

IMG_3132[6557]

 

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The first stages of preparing the fuselage components using a Dremel saw and a twin can respirator ! I remember how yucky it was when I built my 1/144 Brabazon. Somehow vacforms, despite being messy seem more pleasant to work with. That's enough for this evening.

 

IMG_3147[6583]

 

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  • 1 month later...

Finally resumed work on the 432. New Year, new cutting mat - have had it kicking around for a couple of years so time to get it dirty. Tomorrow will get new filters for my double can respirator as have a resin Czech Master S23 to convert to an S21 - no rush. Just to futher refine my skills with resin a Magna Miles M20 - again no rush.

 

To be quite honest I have found group builds a bit taxing as constant emails - just finished a Heller one. I have decorated six rooms in our new house and things getting busier. So once this kit is finished will not do any until April 17th. That will get me the leisurely space to get stuck into my Short Mayo composite.

 

Anyway, here is the fuselage ready to be joined once I have done the uncomplicated interior. I chose Humbrol 78 for my interior green this time - does the job 🙂

 

IMG_3451[7035]

 

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Delighted to see your instructions mention a use for H30 :yahoo: I've managed to collect gallons of the bloom stuff over the years only to be told " that's the wrong green ! ".

 

Best of luck with this one

 

Cheers Pat 

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Hi Pat,

I only used Humbrol interior green as it was matt but tend not to use their paints for exterior colours as I prefer Gunze 😊

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Well, I dealt with a bit more resin refinement and some photo etch bits. Looks a bit pony close up, but hopefully you will be distracted by my exterior finish coat.

IMG_3461

 It's an old trick but I do love a bit of masking tape for seatbelts

 

IMG_3463

 

 

 

IMG_3462

 

Fuselage is now welded together with superglue 🙂

 

 

 

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There certainly looks to be enough going on in there to keep a 72nd scale pilot busy :) 

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  • 2 weeks later...

Things are starting to take shape - whatever shape that is ! It is certainly a learning curve. I attached the wings to the fuselage by pinning them with two brass rods a side and filling with araldite before pinning the shape with superglue. For the nacelles there is no room for pins as they would impinge on the wheel wells so 'gone combat' - straight on with superglue. 

 

I couldn't believe how far off the horizontal the tail was, so I didn't take a photo as it would contravene this sites rules against obscenity. With judicious use of my best friend Mr Dremel I have now sorted it.

IMG_3532[7122]

 

PS I now use the Dremel only when really necessary. The rest of the time it is files and WET wet and dry

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Very Serious Cock UP !!!

 

I have just noticed that my rubbing down of the fuselage has significantly twisted the fuselage. It is rotated so the centreline is rotated quite a few degrees. This is an irredeemable mistake - entirely of my own making.

 

I will complete the kit and put it down to experience. As a good friend of mine has said "He who has never made a mistake has never made anything". 

 

IMG_3541[7128]

The above picture shows how far off the cockpit is.

 

IMG_3540[7129]

 

IMG_3539[7130]

 

 

No wonder I had to fudge the tail - you wouldn't believe how far out it was !!

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It doesn't look that bad from here.Couldn't it be be sorted by realigning the wings?

 

ae5a7d51-d361-45b2-a7a2-d618fdfa9708.JPG

 

I know it'd be a nuisance but you'd be happier with the end result.

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Thanks for the suggestion Alex. The split between the top and bottom halves of the fuselage is not horizontal but off a few degrees so realigning the wings wouldn't fix it. However the ventral gun pack is in about the right position !?!

 

I think I'll continue the build as is and put it down to experience 🙂

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I don't think it is just me. Gunther Arnold has posted pictures of his build online. From the photo below look at the position of the canopy from looks like a square head-on shot - doesn't look quite central to me. Gunther has certainly done a lot better job than me.

04-5

 

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Based on that I'd say it was wonky casting rather than over-exuberant sanding on your part.

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Thanks for your kind words Col. but to be honest I reckon Tobermoray could have done a better job than me ;-).

 

Outer wings and fin on, after puttying and rubbing down will add the little bit under the rudder that I cut off because it was half way down the side !

IMG_3550[7148]

 

IMG_3551[7147]

 

IMG_3553[7146]

 

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My last house was a bit like that. Built in the fifties by (ahem) tradesmen who obviously didn’t like or were not aware of levels or straight edges. 
 
We pretty much gutted it and rebuilt it ourselves. On the first few projects I used levels, plumb lines and straight edges and things did not look right. Once the reality of the house’s geometry dawned on me I learned to place things so they looked right but were rarely true or square.

 

So to not ramble on too much maybe you can finish the build so as to level out ( so to speak) the assymytry of the fuselage assembly. 
 

Also remember you will see the error because you know it’s there but others may not notice.

 

Eg on one of my current builds ( I won’t say which) I have noticed that if I hold it upside down( and only then) the axel of the undercarriage is clearly offline, every time I see it I keep thinking I’ll cut it off and reset it, but then it occurs to me, who’s going to turn the thing upside down once it’s finished, so I’m leaving its alone.

Edited by Marklo
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Marklo, I love you Zen like approach. It is 'the art of modelling without modelling'. A peaceful relaxed way to enjoy our hobby.

 

Am feeling quite surreal at moment as have just seen Cronenberg's film "Existenz" - I followed that with the short film "Snow" available from the Bfi. 

 

Now, where is that model ? 🙂

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Decided to go with Urban's colour reference (IPMS Stockholm) for Gunze for Ocean Grey which is labelled as Medium Sea Grey. Fine for me. What isn't fine is a problem I have had before of the paint eating the resin so both engines are full of holes. Any suggestions ?

Paint YUK

 

IMG_3603[7191]

 

Obviously needs to be rubbed down, but how do I fill the holes ? I seem to remember Mr Surfacer was used on a previous resin which made things worse !!

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