HMS Hood

[Bertie McBoatface]

Fantastacular!

[foeth]

 

Results of experiment 1 from last Friday trying to get those blasted clinker lines in...

Several challenges with this approach:
0) The overall hull is small and difficult to hold, so I put the plug back in and put that one in a small vice.
1) The upper plank must follow the hull outline, so building like "the real thing" and starting at the bottom is (probably) a recipe for failure. I started from the top going down; doesn't matter if the bottom layout isn't really perfect. For the next attempt I''ll also add the centerline first and drill in a few tiny holes as a marker for both in- and outside (general advice to me for all boats).
2) The (arc)length of the hull frames in the center is a bit more than at the bow/stern; I used 0.1mm stryrene and decided to cut strips (0.3) that taper a bit (0.1) at either end using an arced cutting jig before chopping the strip. For attempt #1 the taper is mostly at the bow and I do not like the result just yet at the stern (chopper is not THAT precise unfortunately... probably some angle that is usually negligible but not here). Need to work on this a bit more tailoring the arced jig to the chopper.... But, the (simulation of) plank overlap increasing at either end seems to work well enough.
3) To get a bit of flare I scribed the hull beneath each strip first, added the strip carefully, pressing it in a bit. Not to hard or with too much glue.

The bow tapering of the planks looks quite ok, but the overall finish it still a bit messy. Making corrections by sanding or scraping is tricky, these 0.1mm styrene plates damage easily. A careful layer or Mr surfacer/primer may be needed, we'll see.

[gunzo]

Just a thought but is the boat planking something lower resolution 3D printing might convincingly replicate (ie evident layering)?

[ArnoldAmbrose]

Gidday @foeth, that clinker boat is very nicely done. What would it be, about 16mm overall? Regards, Jeff.

[maarten.schonfeld]

Hi EJ, I only managed to do this for 1:200 scale boats. You take it much further by attempting to do this at 1:350! 

[foeth]

3D printing may be able to do it (or, will most certainly be able to achieve that and better; including the pattern on the inside that I'll ignore for now) but I'm going to pursue the hand-made route for a while... see how far I'll get! I have this weird reservation that 3D printing will blunt my skills..

 

This is a 27ft whaler, so about 24mm long. I actually didn't think a clinker-built hull would be viable, but on MW.com someone suggested adding strips to the outer hull and it works quite well! I'll try cutting better strips, do the other side. If that works, I need to do 6 boats (2 cutters, 2 whalers and 2 dingies)....

[theskits62]

The level of detail you are achieving is just stunning. Brilliant work.

 

I've also been using a home brew vacforming box for ships' boats, what thickness of plastic are you using ??

[foeth]

For these boats I used 0.4mm; the pinnace was 0.25mm but that is far too thin (fortunately that hull is filled so no harm done there). You can always sand down the hull at the upper edge a bit to get a thinner feel; for this hull I added an additional strip at the upper-outer edge (0.1mm) and in the end I need to add a gunwhale strip (0.15-0.2mm). Even with very thin material it adds up on these tiny hulls! Below the gunwhale it's not that important the thickness is a bit off.

[Jamie @ Sovereign Hobbies]

Planking hulls in 1/350 scale. Incredible...

[BillF67]

Wow.

[foeth]

For the unconfusion of small boat terms, a scan from Newton (need to add a few more from the Manual of Seamanship and others)

 

 

I think the top-right F of the clinker is wrong though... Also, some of the fast motor boats (16 and 30 ft) have clinker-built hulls too (side only)... makes the 30ft easier to identify.

[gunzo]

2 hours ago, foeth said:

I think the top-right F of the clinker is wrong though

Isn't that a dodgy looking 'E' (Inner Plank)?

[foeth]

3 minutes ago, gunzo said:

Isn't that a dodgy looking 'E' (Inner Plank)?

Not on the scan though (photoshop did not harm the letter)... I'd say topstrake or washstrake (based on the Manual of seamship using either term.. will process/uploaded later)....

[foeth]

New postcard from Ebay....

[foeth]

Another one, and one of the finest so far. Lots to see here; funnel interior, good shot of the various boats, mast rig, etc

 

Some updates to the ship's boats pages as well:

 

 

Fun advert. Left row, third from the top: a 20ft fast tender of which I have zero info.... Opposite to it: might be the Admiral's barge variant of the standard 35ft Fast Motor Boat. Very close to the Royal barge (above) but that one is a 40ft boat...

 

And now that I am working on small 32 ft cutter, updated that page too with the following:

 

 

A cutter—presumably from HMS Ajax—assisting with the recovery of a de Havilland D.H.82B Queen Bee radio-controlled target aircraft.

 

 

A cutter from HMS Rodney (1935-36)

 

 

A cutter being lowered by HMS Rodney (1937-1938)

 

 

A cutter aboard HMS Hood; good shot of the oars & rig in stowed position.

 

 

And one of the first of the more general Manual of Seamanship drawings...

[thekz]

Do you have information on the sailing armament of a 32 foot boat?
I came across photos of both the two-mast and single-mast options:

 

[foeth]

Fortunately the Manual of Seamanship vol. II has some info

 

 

So this is the dipping lug cutter; according to the manual (1937) this type is no longer being built and "will probably continue to be used for the purpose of giving both young officers and men an introduction in the art of sailing".

 

 

And this is a sloop rig, and "all new cutters are being built to this design" (new in 1937, that is).

 

Also: https://maritimeheritage.org.au/documents/Albatross significance.pdf

 

Excellent question, by the way. Blog post test forming slowly... to be made more concise while I will now add the last outer planks on the cutter hull....

 

Ough comments that the straight keel at the stern was changed to a cut-out keel after 1920; I see both types aboard Hood throughout her career, but a 1941 image shows a cutter with the open keel. Cutters could be built rigged as a dipping lug or sloop (two versus one mast); the dipping lug cutter does not have a drop keel  and— according to the manual of seamanship (1937)—is no longer being built. Is the change in keel at the stern indicative of a change in rig? I would assume so.  There are a few internal visual clues besides counting masts and yards. A small hawser with rope is placed below the centre thwart of the dipping lug cutter where the sloop rig has its dipping keel;  the hawser was moved below the after-most thwart.

 

[foeth]

Some more blog WIP text copy & paste

 

 

HMS Rodney hoisted a gig, a whaler and a cutter on special occasion for this very blog post; the effect of the clinker-built hulls is apparent (source bottom left,source bottom right). Would it be possible to add all the outer planks to the vacuum formed hull? I first performed a small experiment to find out if I could simulate a clinker-built hull by cladding the hull with strips. There were a few challenges. If you start at the bottom working upwards and add strips that actually overlap, then you may not end up with a regular pattern because of the very small plank width, and, the last strip will most likely not align well at the top end of the hull; the images below show that to be the case for the real boats. If you start at the top the alignment problem is 'solved' but you cannot add real overlap. I decided to work downwards without adding overlap. To get the overlap effect I scraped the hull with a sharp knife just below each plank before adding the next.

 

 

 

The plank overlap decreases towards the bow and stern and the distance between the strips should decrease.  Judging by frame length at midships and at the bow and stern—and a quick plank count—I estimated that the strip width is about 0.275/0.35mm for the whaler/cutter, and that this width tapers by about 0.1mm towards the ends for both, so  I made slightly arced strips. I made a simple cutting jig with a thick strip glued to the end of a small plate with a small 0.1mm strip in between . When I normally use a chopper and hold a strip pressed (slightly) against the stop, the knife cuts cleanly and straight down to the 0.1mm timbers for the gig. But  with these curved strips the reproducibility was terrible. I resorted using the square ruler setting using the depth probe of my caliper for the right spacing. You need to cut each strip in few gentle passes to avoid it to start curling (too much). Besides a few knifes I used a wide chisels for positioning and pressing the strip into place, a narrow chisel for carving away excess glue, styrene and 'recovering' the overlap effect on the outside if the caving in the hull wasn't deep enough.  A set of files are good for general correction work; the one at the far right has a safe edge—meaning no teeth—so you do not ruin the adjacent strip.

 

 

The strips were added at slightly less than 4 strips per hour and many pauses to let the glue set entirely.  You need just the tiniest bit of ultra-thin glue and set the strip before the glue evaporates.  A lot of correction and cleanup work was required afterwards as melted plastic occasionally 'spills' over when too much glue was used.  For mild scratch filling I used Tamiya primer applied by a fine brush. The planks appear a bit too larger even, but for the work involved I think the effect is perfect. The whalers are only visible from one side and one cutter will be placed in a barge, so I can hide some defects.

[maarten.schonfeld]

Once again EJ: awesome! I really mean that.

[robgizlu]

14 hours ago, maarten.schonfeld said:

Once again EJ: awesome! I really mean that.

Can't improve on that - makes me feel unworthy using 3D printed parted

I used this method on 1/144 ships boats and that was hard enough.

And once again great reference photos that I'd never seen before

Awesome!

Rob

 

[Jamie @ Sovereign Hobbies]

I dare say that's neater than my 1:1 scale effort Evert-Jan.

[maarten.schonfeld]

11 minutes ago, Jamie @ Sovereign Hobbies said:

I dare say that's neater than my 1:1 scale effort Evert-Jan.

I didn't know you have built a 1:1 scale Hood model, Jamie! 😉

[ArnoldAmbrose]

3 minutes ago, maarten.schonfeld said:

16 minutes ago, Jamie @ Sovereign Hobbies said:

I dare say that's neater than my 1:1 scale effort Evert-Jan.

I didn't know you have built a 1:1 scale Hood model, Jamie! 😉

Jamie must have a rather LARGE man-cave and workbench. 😁

[foeth]

Thanks for the comments 👍 Takes a fair bit of time of course, and I have to refrain myself from starting each post with: "and for my next trick I will make 20 hours and a bottle of Calvados disappear 🫗". But is is also great fun to build and study these smaller boats...

[foeth]

 

Hull 1/4 timbered... 3 to go (image updates as progress progresses, ;his image will update with each next hull)... but these small strips drain the modeling mojo quite quickly! I can use Tamiya thin and ultra thin cement, choosing between melting strips or not really doing anything at all...