Which orange on F106?

[Michael Morris]

I planning on making a model of an F106B testing the Gemini capsule ejector seat in 1/72 scale.  See picture below.  I'm planning on using AK Real Color paints.  I've worked out that the grey of the fuselage is probably ADC Grey and cockpit interior should be probably Dark Gull Grey.  But what colour for the orange/red on the fuselage and tail?  I was thinking Real Color RC207 LUMINOUS ORANGE RAL 2005.

 

Comments please?

 

 

[alt-92]

I'd suggest International Orange FS12197...

 

[PhantomBigStu]

Its a redder orange than Intentional orange, code FS18913, I used Xtracrylic Red Arrows Red on one a year ago which has the slight orange hue to it to the the one that was meant to set the world air speed record 

[Michael Morris]

Some more reference pictures

 

 

 

 

 

[Seawinder]

True North and Lifecolor both do 28913. Testors Model Master enamel had it if you can find it: #2041. Gunze Mr. Color has florescent orange C173 that looks as if it might be close.

[Irish 251]

I would not rely too heavily on colour film (possibly Kodachrome slide) for an accurate rendition of what appears to be fluorescent red/orange.  This thread may be of interest, as it references two shades and FS numbers 28913 and 28915.

[Giorgio N]

Could be one of the ANA dayglo paints, will check which one later 

[Troy Smith]

2 hours ago, Irish 251 said:

I would not rely too heavily on colour film (possibly Kodachrome slide) for an accurate rendition of what appears to be fluorescent red/orange.  This thread may be of interest, as it references two shades and FS numbers 28913 and 28915.

 

52 minutes ago, Giorgio N said:

Could be one of the ANA dayglo paints, will check which one later 

@Casey may be able add to this?

[Steve McArthur]

Here's a video of 57-2507's first flight in January 1958. Several of the photos above look like stills from this video.  After going through the entire video I'm not convinced it's a fluorescent color. There are several shots where the plane is flying past the camera with changing light angles and it just looks darker than day-glo to me. I'd use MRP-232 FS12197 International Orange sprayed over a white base since I'm familiar with it.  For AK Real Color, I'd probably use RC008 RAL 2004 over RC207 RAL 2005.  This plane spent it's entire service life as a test plane for the USAF and eventually NASA. By the time it was used for ejection seat tests several years had passed from the video below. If it was delivered in a non-fluorescent color I doubt it would have been repainted during the brief window where the USAF used them and I haven't seen any photos that look like faded day-glo. 

 

[Casey]

2 hours ago, Troy Smith said:

may be able add to this?

Probably not directly. Interestingly, I have spectrophotometer measurements taken from F5D-1, still in original NASA markings from the age. This is test plane from similar time period (1959) in similar markings so by hope, xmas wishing and some crazy assumptions about vendor for the army at that time, the color could be similar too...

 

It is this one:

 

 

This plane has both colors, red and fluorescent orange. Fluorescent was the wing.

 

The fluorescent has LAB of 66, 65.5, 59, which is outside of sRGB range (sRGB would need to be 279, 99, 56)

 

Closes match to that one is...  Vallejo 71.082 (Fluorescent Red | Rojo Fluorescente | FS38903 | RAL2005), with DE of 3.56.

 

The darker non fluorescent red is closest to RAL 2002 if you are curious (or closest paint I've measured: Humbrol 132).

 

The grey was actually quite white - closer to RAL 9003 (Signal white) than any greys. No paints in the range in Revel, Humbrol or Vallejo are even coming close - the only paint closest I have is WP1102 from Army Painter (their Matt White)

 

Edited December 21, 2023 by Casey

[Michael Morris]

Thank you everyone for your input.  It has been most interesting.  Looking at the videos and pictures, apart from 'VII' painted on the tail, the aircraft used in the tests in 1965 appears to be in it's original livery as used by NASA in 1961.

Therefore, I'm going to guess that the actual colour is going to be a bit faded anyway.  I've ordered some AK Real colour Signal Red and some of their fluorescent orange to play around with.  I'll probably cut them with a little white to lighten them for scale effect as the model is only 1/72 scale.  I'll probably end up with a mixture, plus it will be modulated and weathered a bit.

[Corvi]

True North Paint has many colors and the match maybe one of these:

 

 

They are enamels very similiar to MM paints.  Can be thinned with Lacquer Thinner

 

 

https://www.truenorthpaints.com/paintstore

 

 

Fluorescent Red FS # 28915

$5.99

 

International Orange FS # 12197

$5.99

 

Gloss Arctic Red FS # 11120

$5.99

 

Insignia Red FS # 11136

$5.99

 

Flat Insignia Red FS # 31136

$5.99

 

Fluorescent Red Orange FS# 28913

$5.99

 

Coast Guard Red#40 FS# 12199

$5.99

 

Coast Guard Orange FS# 12250

$5.99

 

 

I am leaning towards Gloss Arctic Red   FS 11120

 

Steve

[frapes75]

16 hours ago, Casey said:

Probably not directly. Interestingly, I have spectrophotometer measurements taken from F5D-1, still in original NASA markings from the age. This is test plane from similar time period (1959) in similar markings so by hope, xmas wishing and some crazy assumptions about vendor for the army at that time, the color could be similar too...

 

It is this one:

 

 

This plane has both colors, red and fluorescent orange. Fluorescent was the wing.

 

The fluorescent has LAB of 66, 65.5, 59, which is outside of sRGB range (sRGB would need to be 279, 99, 56)

 

Closes match to that one is...  Vallejo 71.082 (Fluorescent Red | Rojo Fluorescente | FS38903 | RAL2005), with DE of 3.56.

 

The darker non fluorescent red is closest to RAL 2002 if you are curious (or closest paint I've measured: Humbrol 132).

 

The grey was actually quite white - closer to RAL 9003 (Signal white) than any greys. No paints in the range in Revel, Humbrol or Vallejo are even coming close - the only paint closest I have is WP1102 from Army Painter (their Matt White)

 

 

Awesome work, but if you measured the nose or tail section, I think that those sections might have been repainted for display purposes and the nasa logo replaced. It looks too fresh to be the original paint, if you also compare against  the rest of the airframe.

 

For example look the condition of the rudder fin compared to the vertical tail.

 

And the tail is painted only in a certain height, like they couldnt reach any higher.. 

 

My personal opinion is that the fluorescent faded paint was the all around original. It seems the rudder bit has kept its original paint coat and it looks more fluorescent orangy, although faded

 

If you look more closely you can also see overspray in the cone attachment primed internal section where paint isnt supposed to be there at all.

 

Best regards !!!! as always my paint Queen!!!

 @Casey

 

 

Edited December 21, 2023 by frapes75

[iainpeden]

I have just taken delivery of "Birth of a Legend, McDonnell F4H-1 Phantom II" by Tommy Thomasan aka @Tailspin Turtle.

 

There a a number of photos of Phantoms with a very similar high-viz paint to that on the F-106. These include the well known one with the load of 20 (?) bombs - all painted to match the orange outer wing panels and various flashes.

I have done some comparisons with other book pictures I have including the Arctic Red worn by a/c such as the F-89 Scorpion and the International Orange worn by the QF-4s. On the F4H-1s the colour has an element of fluorescence about it and, on some, an element of a gloss finish.

So, while I cant id the F-106 colour (color?) I'm 99.999 certain is not Arctic Red or International Orange.

[Giorgio N]

There were 4 colours used to enhance visibility on US aircraft in those years:

Insignia Red, as seen for the "arctic" markings on many USAF aircraft.

ANA 634 Fluorescent Yellow Orange, used by the USAF for a number of conspicuity markings.

ANA 633 Fluorescent Red Orange, that replaced in the USAF the previous colour since 633 was found to be more robust.

ANA 508 International Orange, that IIRC was initially mainly used by the USN but later, after becoming FS 12197 was also used by the USAF to replace the areas previously in the fluorescent colours.

 

Of the 4 colours, my view is:

Insignia Red: unlikely, while the hi-vis areas look dark in some pictures, in most of the video they are lighter and more orange than the fuselage insignia bars (that were in Insignia Red)

Fluorescent Yellow Orange: again unlikely, this didn't last long and should be more yellow than what can be seen in the video.

Fluorescent Red Orange: very possible, afterall it was the colour the USAF was using for conspicuity markings in those years. Other test aircraft carried this colour.

International Orange: IMHO less likely as was not used much by the USAF at the time. 

There's of course the matter of understanding if the colour was or not dayglo. ANA 633 was, International Orange is not. It's hard to tell from the pictures and video. The hi-vis areas look quite worn in some sections of the video and this may tie in with the known fact that these fluorescent paints were not very robust. It's however only a thought from my side...

 

So if you feel this was a dayglo paint, then ANA 633 is the one I'd choose. If you feel the paint was not dayglo, then you could try International Orange. 

Or prepare your own mix to match the pictures...

[Casey]

5 hours ago, frapes75 said:

Awesome work, but if you measured the nose or tail section, I think that those sections might have been repainted for display purposes and the nasa logo replaced. It looks too fresh to be the original paint, if you also compare against  the rest of the airframe.

 

For example look the condition of the rudder fin compared to the vertical tail.

 

And the tail is painted only in a certain height, like they couldnt reach any higher.. 

 

My personal opinion is that the fluorescent faded paint was the all around original. It seems the rudder bit has kept its original paint coat and it looks more fluorescent orangy, although faded

I spent some happy time with this plane trying to find places that looked like if they were originally painted (like examining the paint surface near corroded paint to see the underlying paint layers structure). The fluorescent paint samples  I took from wings front, tail and most important from undersides and nooks and crannies I could get that are not visible (least prone to fading) and I compared the readouts to pick the most saturated samples. The red I got was from tail and cone. Red and orange on this aircraft are two different paints (very differentl). It is most probable that the original paint was indeed only the fluorescent one, it has very interesting spectrum that looks almost like carbon black till 550nm( 6-9% reflectance), then has a rapid peak going up to 120% reflectance at 610nm and goes on still 91% at 700nm (why it is interesting: this strong new looking red on same aircraft is max 60% reflectance in all visible spectrum, topping at 700nm and only being 44.5% in 610nm). That fluorescent paint is fluorescent red orange. Then someone just sprayed it over with normal red paint since it is very difficult to get exact fluorescent paint match - traditional paint color mixing does not work with them since they actualy emit colors. Since aircraft was accessible I gently wiped it clean in places of measurements and got enough samples over the whole aircraft to identify distinct paints used.

 

It was fun!

Edited December 21, 2023 by Casey