Corsairfoxfouruncle Posted July 5, 2019 Share Posted July 5, 2019 (edited) Hello everyone... Im building an F-4D and i know the early ones had the towel bar antenna on the spine of the aircraft. My question is how long were those towel bar type antenna's in service ? And were they replaced by this antenna ? Or were these used on a different variant of the Phantom all together ? Any help as always is very gratefully acknowledged. Dennis Edited August 3, 2019 by Corsairfoxfouruncle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CT7567 Posted July 5, 2019 Share Posted July 5, 2019 The "towel rail" antenna is for the ARN-92 LORAN system, applied to a select number of F-4Ds, referred to as the "Pave Phantom" mod. Per Joe Baugher's Phantom site: "A total of 72 aircraft from blocks 32 and 33 were so equipped. In Vietnam, the primary mission of these Pave Phantom F-4Ds was the seeding of the Ho Chi Minh trail with sensors, which required the precise nighttime navigational capability provided by LORAN. The primary operators of the "towel-rail" F-4Ds were the 25th and 497th TFS of the 8th TFW and the 555th TFS of the 432nd TFW. Subsequently, these planes were passed along to the 457th TFS of the 301st TFW, the 23rd TFS of the 52nd TFW, and the 704th TFS of the 924th TFG." http://www.joebaugher.com/usaf_fighters/f4_10.html The elongated hexagonal antenna in yiur photo is for the later ARN-101 Nav/Attack system, as fitted to some 180 F-4Es starting in 1977. http://joebaugher.com/usaf_fighters/f4_11.html There were also RF-4Cs fitted with the same systems and antennae concurrent with the respective upgrades. 4 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
72modeler Posted July 6, 2019 Share Posted July 6, 2019 (edited) Dennis, According to the McDonnell F-4 website, 72 F-4D's were converted to Pave Phantoms; an AN/ARN-92 Loran D unit was fitted, which required a towel rail antenna to be mounted on the spine behind the cockpit. Primary function was to seed the Ho Chi Minh Trail with sensors, and this required the much more precise navigation capability of the Loran unit. The 25th and 497th squadrons of the 8th TFW and the 555th squadron of the 432nd TFW were the units that used it. Later on these F-4D's were passed on to the 457th squadron of the 301st TFW, the 23rd squadron of the 452nd TFW, and the 704th squadron of the 924th TFG. Hope this helps! Mike Whoops- CT7567 got his post in as I was typing mine- either we're both pretty good, or we're both wrong! (But at least we're both fast!) Here's a photo of one in the link below, http://www.8tfw.org/images/66-8745.jpg Edited July 6, 2019 by 72modeler added link 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corsairfoxfouruncle Posted July 6, 2019 Author Share Posted July 6, 2019 Thanks to @CT7567 and @72modeler. Its good to know so i don't need to scratch build the hexagonal spine antenna. Since those are used on F-4E's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hook Posted July 6, 2019 Share Posted July 6, 2019 8 hours ago, Corsairfoxfouruncle said: Thanks to @CT7567 and @72modeler. Its good to know so i don't need to scratch build the hexagonal spine antenna. Since those are used on F-4E's. AN/ARN-101 (or "Arnie") was fitted to F-4G's and RF-4C's as well. Cheers, Andre 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whiskey Posted July 6, 2019 Share Posted July 6, 2019 50 minutes ago, Hook said: AN/ARN-101 (or "Arnie") was fitted to F-4G's and RF-4C's as well. Cheers, Andre As often as that is stated I can't recall ever seeing a photo of an F-4G Wild Weasel fitted with the AN/ARN-101 system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dazza Posted July 6, 2019 Share Posted July 6, 2019 3 hours ago, whiskey said: As often as that is stated I can't recall ever seeing a photo of an F-4G Wild Weasel fitted with the AN/ARN-101 system. The G didn't have the whole of the ARN-101 kit installed, hence the lack of the 'dog house' antenna seen on the spine of the E and RF-4C and not all G's received the upgrade either, I have a list of all the G's that did receive the upgrade. -Daz 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corsairfoxfouruncle Posted August 3, 2019 Author Share Posted August 3, 2019 Hello everyone... quick question in this photo the Phantom is carrying a single AGM-65 maverick. I don't see a rail though ? Could/can mavericks be carried without rails. Dennis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parabat Posted August 3, 2019 Share Posted August 3, 2019 Looks like a LAU-88 triple rail job there, if it was just a single it would still be a rail, the LAU-117 I think. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hook Posted August 3, 2019 Share Posted August 3, 2019 Agreed, that 's a LAU-88. This was used only sparingly early on when the AGM-65 entered service due to the huge amount of drag it generated. Cheers, Andte 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canberra kid Posted August 3, 2019 Share Posted August 3, 2019 found this, it confirms what has been said. John 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
72modeler Posted August 3, 2019 Share Posted August 3, 2019 Thank you, John, @canberra kidfor the loadout diagram- I can really use it! CCFFU, @Corsairfoxfouruncle is that an IL ANG Rhino, by any chance? Mike 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corsairfoxfouruncle Posted August 3, 2019 Author Share Posted August 3, 2019 (edited) Yes it is Mike ironically photographed at a U.K. air show of all places. someday it will get built im currently doing two phantoms this one is a C**n*ss Militia Bird from Louisiana's 122nd TFS. I figured since the scheme I'm doing is from the March of 83 Red-Flag why not add a Maverick to it. The other is an F-4EJ out of Komatsu in 82. Edited August 3, 2019 by Corsairfoxfouruncle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tony.t Posted August 3, 2019 Share Posted August 3, 2019 Don't forget the offset UHF antenna (à la F-4G, and visible in that pic of the IL ANG F-4D). It was added as the ITT AN/ARN-92 LORAN antennae were originally located in the F-4D's fincap. The offset UHF antenna came first, then the Towel rail to improve signal reception. Tony 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Finn Posted August 4, 2019 Share Posted August 4, 2019 The reason it is a single Maverick is because it is a training one, note the blue bands and no tail fins. Jari 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
72modeler Posted August 4, 2019 Share Posted August 4, 2019 Now you know why I stick to airplanes with big fans in front and not weenie cookers- I don't see how you guys keep track of all that stuff...a lot more complicated than B-24 turret and window variations, if you ask me! 😜 Mike 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corsairfoxfouruncle Posted August 4, 2019 Author Share Posted August 4, 2019 (edited) So digging around i found photo's of both Luftwaffe F-4F's and USAF aircraft from the early 80's using the LAU-117's with AGM-65's. I know the LAU-88's were in use at the time, so i can go either route. And thanks @Finn i was going to paint it up as a training round to match the training winder's and sparrows. Many thanks to all that helped. Mike id rather not deal with the "Consolidated" mess truthfully. Dennis Edited August 4, 2019 by Corsairfoxfouruncle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gingerbob Posted August 4, 2019 Share Posted August 4, 2019 6 hours ago, 72modeler said: Now you know why I stick to airplanes with big fans in front and not weenie cookers- I don't see how you guys keep track of all that stuff... And another good excuse to build models "clean"! (My primary excuse, though, is sheer laziness.) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
72modeler Posted August 4, 2019 Share Posted August 4, 2019 4 hours ago, gingerbob said: And another good excuse to build models "clean"! GB- true, true! My biggest obstacle, in addition to finding decent-looking stores to hang under my models, is painting the yellow rings and making 1/72 fuses in the nose and tail of U.S. things that go 'boom!' I think I have tried every trick in the book I have read or came up with to do them cleanly and evenly, and they never seem to work! Intention here is NOT to spark a topic discussion on how to paint external ordnance, as I have saved Selwyn's posts for RAF stores and I have an OOP issue of Replica in Scale that had diagrams, photos, and scale drawings of US bombs/depth bombs in three scales. Some airplanes, however, just don't look right clean, like an SBD or an F-105. Mike 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corsairfoxfouruncle Posted August 4, 2019 Author Share Posted August 4, 2019 9 minutes ago, 72modeler said: Some airplanes, however, just don't look right clean, like an SBD or an F-105. Or an F-4 Phantom. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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