Me 262 A-1a from III./JG 7 flown by Major Rudolf Sinner

[Basilisk]

I know I shouldn't participate in another GB, but how can I say NO to building the iconic Me 262

 

The aircraft I build is one of the two mounts from Major Rudolf Sinner, Gruppenkommandeur (CO), III./JG 7 in its attractive striped camouflage.

 

 

All drawings of this aircraft show the stripes in a diagonal pattern across the whole aircraft. I couldn't find from where this originated, but based on the picture below, I paint the stripes in a V pattern

With the exception of the nose, all other stripes do line up reasonably well.

 

Of course it could be a third aircraft in this camouflage, but I find this rather unlikely as III./JG 7 had only six aircraft on its strength. And if it is a third aircraft, my model will represent two aircraft - one on each side.

 

I chosen to build the 1/48 Tamiya kit and will add some Aires resin goodies.

 

In addition, I will also build the new 1/72 Airfix kit OOB, also in the colours of JG 7, once again an aircraft from III./JG 7. It is yellow 5 which flew into Fassberg from Czechoslovakia on 8 May 1945, piloted by Unteroffizier Anton Schlöppler.

 

 

 

 

Cheers, Peter

Edited May 6, 2018 by Basilisk

[trickyrich]

welcome aboard Peter, and with two beasties!!

 

Great choices and I do like all the resin extras you've got as well, plus do I spy a Yahu instrument panel? Those things are amazing, beautifully detailed. 

 

Great colour scheme choice, I'll have to have a look through all my stuff to see if I can find any photos of the other side.

 

Good luck with both builds, they'll be fun to watch. Though you do know that most of the panel lines were taped over so I'm not too sure where you're going to put your beloved rivets....but I'm sure you'll find a place! 

[Basilisk]

Thanks Rich.

1 hour ago, trickyrich said:

Though you do know that most of the panel lines were taped over so I'm not too sure where you're going to put your beloved rivets....but I'm sure you'll find a place! 

Yes I know, but all is not lost. I actually did a lot of reading and currently work myself through the four volumes of Smith / Creek books on the Me 262.

 

Yes some parts had been covered by tape (nose to fuselage joint), but the rivet lines had been covered by putty, and only at spots where it didn't meet the RLM guidelines for surface finish, which means that the application of putty varied from airframe to airframe.

 

Here are two pictures from this post at Large Scale Planes which makes some interesting reading.

Putty in place in front of the cockpit, but not below the cockpit.

 

And here the Aircraft at Hendon.

So there is still some work for me to do I may even try tu simulate the stressed skin effect where the rivets are.

 

1 hour ago, trickyrich said:

do I spy a Yahu instrument panel? Those things are amazing, beautifully detailed. 

Yes you did. They are indeed very nice, but I always feel a bit like cheating when using them... But still 10 times better than the Eduard pre painted stuff - they never get the colour right and the digital printing doesn't look very nice.

 

1 hour ago, trickyrich said:

Great colour scheme choice, I'll have to have a look through all my stuff to see if I can find any photos of the other side.

I would be surprised if you can find another picture of the aircraft. I have a rather large pile of books on the Me 262 and these are the pictures I found.

 

But I would be interested to hear if the diagonal paint pattern is based on some verbal / written information I didn't come across yet.

 

Cheers, Peter

[trickyrich]

arrr I knew you would find some, I've seen those photos.

 

Looks like we're reading the same book, though I'm stuck for Vol 1 for my build.

[Ozzy]

Hopefully I will pick up some tips as you build the Airfix kit Peter, you've got some nice bits for your tamyia kit.

[FalkeEins]

..as you’ve mentioned Sinner appears to have had two striped machines. As per the Sundin profile and first image, one with stripes angled forward (top to bottom) which appears to have been 'mirrored' on the other side of the aircraft (no launcher tubes) and the other with stripes angled to the rear diagonally across the airframe with the launchers

[Basilisk]

15 hours ago, FalkeEins said:

..as you’ve mentioned Sinner appears to have had two striped machines. As per the Sundin profile and first image, one with stripes angled forward (top to bottom) which appears to have been 'mirrored' on the other side of the aircraft (no launcher tubes) and the other with stripes angled to the rear diagonally across the airframe with the launchers

Yes and this is the picture of the "other" aircraft Sinner flew. Not sure if he flew both at the same time or if one is a replacement aircraft.

Unfortunately there isn't a picture of the complete aircraft so the finish of the vertical stabilizer is based on educated guesses.

 

I assume the same is the case in regards to the stripes on the wings and the other side of the fuselage. Or is there some evidence that the stripes are diagonal?

 

Yes the Luftwaffe in Focus article in the Special #2 issue is interesting and it is there where the pictures of the aircraft I build had been published first. There is also a bit of a debate what colours had been used. Grandall states RLM 81 and 83, the author from the in Focus article thinks it was RLM 82 and 83 instead. I have a third oppinion as to my eye neither of these two combination is having the contrast as shown in the pictures. I therefore will use RLM 70 Schwarzgrün with RLM 83 as RLM 70 was still a legitimate alternative.

 

Cheers, Peter

[FalkeEins]

sounds perfectly reasonable. Still a fair bit of guesswork involved especially around the top and rear of the airframe - nothing appears to line up ..and some of the stripes are far from having straight edges.. Here's one I did in 72nd ..after poring over the photos, I still got the nose, the area around the engines under the wing and the stabs 'wrong' ...

 

 

I used Xtracolor and WEM Luftwaffe enamels in 82 and 83  The JG 7 fuselage bands, the III. Gruppe bar in black (white outline) and the white Hakenkreuz are not visible on the particular photo you've shown above, which was the basis for the jacket illustration of the Schiffer edition of M. Boehme's JG 7 history. It wasn't until the LiF 'special' that we could assume that this particular aircraft featured them. The T. Tullis profile in the Classic Me 262 Volume 3 has the tail and rear of the fuselage mottled. 

[Mike]

32 minutes ago, Basilisk said:

Not sure if he flew both at the same time

Impossible, surely!??!?!?!

[Basilisk]

1 hour ago, Mike said:

Impossible, surely!??!?!?!

Didn't you know that German pilots could do the impossible

 

2 hours ago, FalkeEins said:

sounds perfectly reasonable. Still a fair bit of guesswork involved especially around the top and rear of the airframe - nothing appears to line up ..and some of the stripes are far from having straight edges.. Here's one I did in 72nd ..after poring over the photos, I still got the nose, the area around the engines under the wing and the stabs 'wrong' ...

 

I used Xtracolor and WEM Luftwaffe enamels in 82 and 83  The JG 7 fuselage bands, the III. Gruppe bar in black (white outline) and the white Hakenkreuz are not visible on the particular photo you've shown above, which was the basis for the jacket illustration of the Schiffer edition of M. Boehme's JG 7 history. It wasn't until the LiF 'special' that we could assume that this particular aircraft featured them. The T. Tullis profile in the Classic Me 262 Volume 3 has the tail and rear of the fuselage mottled. 

Nice models FalkeEins. When it comes to German late war colours some guess work is needed unfortunately. I just feel that RLM 82 is not dark enough. specially if  comparing the tone of the black stabs marking to the darker green on the aircraft.

 

But hey, whatever we choose, no one can come and say that IS wrong

Cheers, Peter

 

By the way, I enjoy reading your Luftwaffe blog.

[Basilisk]

I decided which aircraft I base the Airfix kit on. It is also from III./JG 7, yellow 5 which flew into Fassberg from Czechoslovakia on 8 May 1945, piloted by Unteroffizier Anton Schlöppler. I updated the first post with some pictures.

 

Today I spent some time comparing the Aires resin parts to the Tamiya kit parts.

 

 

 

 

 

 

I do ask myself if the resin parts are a worthwhile addition. most of the additional stuff is the cabling, so will be interesting to see how it all looks with some paint on.

 

One challenge with Aires resin are the instructions. They show how all the resin parts go together.

But unfortunately no information at all how it all fits into the Tamiya kit

 

No progress in the build as such, but the resin comparison is maybe of use for others.

Cheers, Peter

[trickyrich]

Aires cockpits, instructions written by Beelzebub's right hand man!! They are shockers and I've just bought a set as well, so now looking at these fills me with the usual dread!

[Basilisk]

On 5/7/2018 at 5:17 PM, trickyrich said:

Aires cockpits, instructions written by Beelzebub's right hand man!! They are shockers and I've just bought a set as well, so now looking at these fills me with the usual dread!

I am sure you will manage Rich - after all, resin flows through your veins

 

Made good progress during the week. Started with cutting off the slats as thei are normally extended on the Me 262 when parked.

Used a razor saw for the vertical cuts.

 

And a scriber for the horizontal cut.

 

Next was thinning the wheel bay surrounds.

Right side is done.

 

And all done here.

 

The Aires outer wheel bay parts fit nicely.

 

And the front part of the wheel bay fits well too.

 

Also attached the PE stuff to the cockpit.

I am not a great fan of that cream coloured resin as details are so hard to see.

 

And the parts for the first pre-assembly are ready for a coat of primer.

 

To get to that stage was a bit quicker on the Airfix kit.

 

Cheers, Peter

 

Edited May 24, 2018 by Basilisk

[Mottlemaster]

Smashing work and great clear pics to follow progress and compare parts .

 

Cheers

Alistair

[trickyrich]

nice! I'm glad you're doing this one, as I will reference this for my second aircraft and hopefully you'll find and solve all the problems areas as well before I get there! 

 

The only things different is that you have the Aires tail surfaces and wheels and I have the CMK detail set (which I think has them in it), got it for a 1/3rd of the price of the Aires cockpit set, super happy about that.

 

One question, what do you use to secure those tiny PE bits with?

[Basilisk]

On 5/13/2018 at 6:56 PM, Mottlemaster said:

Smashing work and great clear pics to follow progress and compare parts .

 

Cheers

Alistair

Thanks Alistair.

 

On 5/13/2018 at 10:21 PM, trickyrich said:

nice! I'm glad you're doing this one, as I will reference this for my second aircraft and hopefully you'll find and solve all the problems areas as well before I get there! 

Thanks Rich. As you know, I am a sloooow builder and you have yours most likely finished by the time I have all the Aires stuff fitted

 

On 5/13/2018 at 10:21 PM, trickyrich said:

One question, what do you use to secure those tiny PE bits with?

Super glue and a steady hand.  But not all Super glue is the same. For this small stuff I prefer Loctite precision Super Glue. It is not too thin and bonds reasonably fast. Works well for the small stuff.

 

Cheers, Peter

[trickyrich]

I've just received my Aires cockpit, boy they are certainly vague with this one!!! 

[Silenoz]

Nice work so far... The added value of the resin parts is almost zero... except for the handles and so on...

[Basilisk]

On 5/15/2018 at 3:57 PM, trickyrich said:

I've just received my Aires cockpit, boy they are certainly vague with this one!!! 

Has to be an older set. Was your cockpit tube also beige?

 

On 5/15/2018 at 6:53 PM, Silenoz said:

Nice work so far... The added value of the resin parts is almost zero... except for the handles and so on...

Almost zero is a bit harsh. There is actually lots of additional detail the Tamiya kit doesn't have which will be much more noticeable after painting.

 

What I noticed on the Tamiya kit are rather thick trailing edges on the main wing and one thing I HATE are trailing edges out of scale.

 

So had to do something about this.

The wing on the top of the two pictures is how the trailing edge looks on the kit and the wing below that is the one I sanded down.

 

As the ailerons are part of the upper wing, I had to thin the external surfaces and some re-scribing will be in order.

 

Cheers, Peter

Edited May 24, 2018 by Basilisk

[Basilisk]

Got some paint onto both kits

 

The internals for the Tamiya kit.

 

And on the Airfix kit

 

Engines are now ready to be clued together.

Cheers, Peter

[CliffB]

These are both looking very nice Peter - hats off to Airfix, the differences in the photos are hard to spot.

 

Cliff

[Basilisk]

Thanks Cliff. Yes the Airfix kit isn't bad at all, but some of the engraving is a bit shonky.

 

Progressed a bit further on the Tamiya kit. Did try something new with this build and it will be interesting to see how it work out at the end.

Stressed skin effect  After I got this far I thought I better buy a new kit as this doesn't look too good.

 

But then I thought just get on with it and see how it works out.

Here I thought maybe not everything is lost

 

I used the round chisel in the top of the picture to scrape the "dents" in the plastic. After several trials to polish the surface I found a 600 grid sanding sponge is working wonders.

 

After progressively using finer sponges up to 4000 grid the wing was ready to once more mark the lines where the rivets go.

I then used above five Rosie the Riveters to add the rivets. The riveters with the red dot on it are double row riveters which ensure a constant width of double row rivets

 

After another work-out with some sanding sponges the wings didn't look bad at all.

But where is my stressed skin effect gone?

 

Well, here it is.

Have to lower the light to create shadows to make them visible.

 

The question is, will the effect be visible on the painted model? I guess only under certain lighting conditions - as with a real aircraft.

 

Did also some of the detail painting on the internal parts. This is still work in progress and the parts still need the final semi-gloss varnish to seal everything in.

 

For the undercarriage bay I will airbrush some translucent yellow paint first as most of the pictures I have seen the aluminium  has a kind of yellowish hue to it.

 

And the cockpit tub is also done.

Will finish it off after the tub is incorporated into the undercarriage bay.

 

Thanks for dropping in.

Cheers, Peter

[trickyrich]

impressive work on the wings! Sanding sponges are great for what you were trying to do, they give a nice transitions in the surface.

 

So do you have a favourite riveter? I suspect you have more than just those 5. I must admit the double row ones looks cool.

[Basilisk]

10 hours ago, trickyrich said:

impressive work on the wings! Sanding sponges are great for what you were trying to do, they give a nice transitions in the surface.

 

So do you have a favourite riveter? I suspect you have more than just those 5. I must admit the double row ones looks cool.

Thanks Rich. Yes I do have a favourite riveter as I found not all riveter are the same. You need a good view to the line you follow, the wheel needs to roll freely but still has no play in it. I found the best are the riveters made by Petr Dousek. They are available from 0.4 to 1mm dot spacing and in single, double and triple row. I don't have the triple row type (see no use for it), but have 10 of the others and they work extremely well. The riveting on the 262 wing is all done freehand with a pencil line as a guide.

 

Cheers, Peter

[CJP]

Hi Peter - I found my way to this build from you Hawker Seahawk build in Carrier GB - nice attention to detail again - interesting to see the Aires resin compared to the Airfix kit parts - they are very nice but the kit parts don't look too bad either but would need a lot more work - I like your tool kit and I'm going to have to get one of those panel scribers - I now have a fine punch/die  set after seeing your work on the Sea Hawk build.

CJP