PDU aircraft project (long post, lots of images)

[ben_m]

Hello,

This is my first post on this (or any other) aircraft modeling forum. I made quite a few kits in my childhood (mostly Airfix 1/72 RAF WWII), switched to GamesWorkshop miniatures when I was 12, which continued until around 17, at which stage I made a Revell 1/32 F-16 (horrid experience, little detail, didn't go together well). Then I left modeling behind for over 10 years. I have just started again, after becoming interested in the development of aerial reconnaissance techniques at the beginning of WWII (sparked off by reading Constance Babington-Smith's Evidence in camera).

I am part way through building a series of kits to represent some of the aircraft used by the PDU in late February 1940. I am building Spitfire N3069 (a PR mkIb at this time), using the Tamiya MkI kit as a basis, with Aires cockpit, and a vac-formed canopy with teardrops. I have made some major mistakes already- the wheel wells are the wrong colour, the cockpit detail is probably wrong (there is too much stuff on the walls of the aires cockpit for a MkI I think), when installing the cockpit, I glued the sides of the fuselage together under tension. Only afterwards did I realise how deformed the wing roots had become. I had to butcher them badly to get the wings to go on I spent hours scraping the side walls of the plastic cockpit and sanding the resin to avoid this...

The most major error was that I used an old diagram of the camera mounts in the wings, and it showed a small teardrop blister around the lenses. After I made these and added them, I saw clear photos of a PR Ib with the glass windows for the lenses flush with the underside of the wing...

This was my first attempt at using an airbrush. I am using Xtracryllix paints. I undercoated the plane in white, and pre-shaded with black, then sprayed over in camotint (Sky lightened quite a bit with white).

Anyway, the other planes I will be making are:

Hudson N7334 (shot down by friendly fire on 3rd March), which has a interesting camouflage scheme:

I'll be using the MPM Hudson MkI kit. The interior on this kit looks really nice. It can also be made into different aircraft (e.g. Lockheed 14, later Hudsons). There is a model of an aircraft in this camo sheme here: http://passionmaquettes47.free.fr/MAQUETTE...DSON/index.html

I've started on Cotton's famous Lockheed 12A, G-AFTL, using Special Hobby's version, which seems quite nice, but is a little harder to assemble than a mainstream kit (vac-form canopy, no alignment pegs). Here is a great looking build of this model:

http://sturm.szm.sk/kod/stranky/l12_m.html

Then finally, I am building a Beechcraft Staggerwing 17, using the Sword D-17S model (see this review: http://modelingmadness.com/reviews/allies/us/hammstagg.htm ). The plane I am making is G-AESJ, a C-17R, which has a shorter fuselage, steeper windscreen, different engine and different tail to the model. But it is too much work to correct these problems, unfortunately! This aircraft carried an SIS/MI6 photographer (who usually took passport photos for forging papers for agents) to photograph the German navy at Wilhelmshaven on Septemember 2nd 1939, on the eve of the declaration of war. It was also used as a general communications aircraft by the Unit.

Here are some shots of my model's interior (I now know the wheel is on upside-down )

I am having a nightmare with choosing a suitable glue for clear parts (as seen above). What do people recommend (for vac-formed canopies and clear styrene)?

Thanks for reading this far!

[ReccePhreak]

Ben,

Great work on your PR Spitfire so far. Do you have any later photos?

It's always nice to meet someone else that has an interest in photo-recon aircraft. Have you looked at the Photo-Recce SIG section of the IPMS/UK forum? Here's the URL: http://ipmsuk.proboards.com/index.cgi?

It's down in the Aircraft Special Interest Groups subforum.

Thanks for the info on the Hudson, especially the camo profiles. I usually only see one side of the A/C, not the top scheme. That plane is on my Want List, of kits to get.

Cheers,

Larry

[ben_m]

Hi Larry,

I didn't add anything to this topic as I didn't get any responses on this forum (now I am more experienced on Britmodeler, I know I should have posted to 'work in progress').

The Spit PR Ib was completed, but I am not happy with the wing roots, caused by butchery to get the Aires cockpit to fit. Also, I didn't bother filling the gun panel lines, and have since found that the cameras didn't have blisters, they were flush.

The thread that I will be updating when I return to this project is on Aeroscale.

Here is a fairly recent photo of G-AFTL, Cotton's Lockheed 12A, after they were taken into the RAF, the civilian codes were over-sprayed, but they were still legible.

Here is the Beech 17 finished (in this profile shot you can see the differences in length and windscreen angle between the C17 and the D17- the Sword model is of the D17, and G-AESJ was a C17R).

I have ventured over the IMPS-UK PR forum. I posted a link to my P.D.U.1 article a while back.

The Hudson is still not finished! I have been side-tracked by some non-PR subjects (a couple of WWI aircraft, and a few Hawker Typhoons). I made that colour top and side view based on a scan of a black and white decal manufacturer's marking instructions, and they match up pretty well with the photos. Note the photos are not of N7334, but are of another Hudson that was painted in the same markings. The photos were taken as part of the investigation into why N7334 was shot down by Hurricanes.

Other PR subjects I have planned include Blenheim Mk.I L1348 that was adapted by Cotton's team for high speed (no turret, rounded metal nose, clipped wings, smoothed wing roots, new dope, etc.). This was evaluated in Nov. 1939 and found still unsuitable for PR.

I am also interested in modelling the prototype Westland Whirlwind, that was probably fitted with a camera nose as a trial at some point early in it's life. Jerry Brewer started me off on this idea. The whirlwind was mentioned by Shorty Longbottom in his report to the Air Ministry for the requirement for a fast fighter to be used for PR. I guess the Whirlwind's lower-than-anicipated ceiling put an end to its PR role.

Edited October 3, 2010 by ben_m

[Mark]

Very interesting and lovely models!! oh, and Good to have you here!!

[ben_m]

Very interesting and lovely models!! oh, and Good to have you here!!

Thanks for the welcome! I have been posting for a while though- this thread was started last March! :-)

[CCC]

isn't it just typical. :shithappens:

Just finished Classic Airframes Hudson yesterday as N7334.

Its taken 3 years on and mostly off, and then a couple of photos turn up, and can now see where some 'issues' are resolved.

So, have now got to try to rectifiy in readyness for Southwell show in less than 2 weeks.

Anyway never mind. Will try to get photos posted tomorrow.

The top photo, btw, has been flopped. The direction of the diagonal stripes are going from top right to bottom left, when infact are top left to bottom right as seen on the lower photo.

Ah well onward and upward

[ben_m]

The top photo, btw, has been flopped. The direction of the diagonal stripes are going from top right to bottom left, when infact are top left to bottom right as seen on the lower photo.

Interesting! I hadn't noticed- I should have realised when I couldn't make out the door. This may mean that the enlargement of the last window I have made on both sides of my model is incorrect. However, as there isn't a photo to prove the port window wasn't enlarged, I'll keep mine as it is. Looking forward to seeing your 1/48 model. If you are interested, I have gathered a few accounts of the shooting down of this aircraft- all from the web, but some don't mention the serial so were hard to find- I could post the links.

[CCC]

Ben

Please do

Regarding windows. I believe that both side windows were opened up so that each have a camera pointing down approx 30 degrees.

other cameras were installed, however no info as to exactly where.

I found photo in RAF Photo Recce book (can't recall exact name at time of writting) that clearly shows vertical camera installation just forward of the door.

So thats where I put it.

Suspect cameras may have been installed in nose, possibly in vertical position but no info so left it out

Up late this morning so forgot model photos. Must do it tomorrow

[ben_m]

Thanks for the info on camera positions.

The following is all the information I have been able to find in my research of this aircraft- any additions would be appreciated.

{Copyright note: I believe the use of the following very short quotations (much less than 1% of the complete work) are fair dealing under the Copyright Act UK, as they are provided for news reporting and review}

As you probably know, the use of Hudsons for PR was an idea that Cotton called the 'H' plan- that a Hudson would take off and cross the channel- if the cloud base was too low for an effective high altitude pass by a Spitfire, the Hudson would radio back to Heston that it was carrying on, and it would enter the cloud and set course using its autopilot. When the Hudson was hopefully over the target, it would break cloud cover, and photograph the target before returning into the cloud. If there were suitable conditions for the Spitfire, the Hudson radioed to Heston that the Spitfire (that was ready and waiting to take off) should be used, and the Hudson would return.

N7334 was shot down by on 3rd March 1940 by 3 Squadron Hurricanes, who misidentified it as a Do 17. According Andrew Hendrie in 'Seek and Strike', the Hudson crashed at Meopham in Kent. Hendrie also mentions a unidentified 'contemporary news report' stated that it was three Spitfires that shot down the Hudson. Ralph Barker's recording of Sidney Cotton's memories also states Spitfires. Hendrie goes on to say that it was alleged that the Hudson's turret had returned fire on the fighters, and that it had no IFF fitted. The hudson had no turret fitted. Hendrie states that the pilot, Denis 'Slogger' Slocum, had carried out eight sorties up until 29th February 1940 with highly prized photographs resulting. He had evaded enemy aircraft, and only suffered slight damage on one occasion.

Constance Babington Smith's 1957 book 'Evidence in Camera,' probably using information directly from Cotton, gives the following account of Slocum:

"Rather in a class of by himself, however, was Flying Officer Slocum, a carefree young man who had formerly been an airline pilot. He joined the Air Force at the beginning of the war, and was stationed at a Scottish base; but he enjoyed flying for Cotton, and without asking anyone's permission he used to slip down to Heston, do a photographic flight or two, and then return to his squadron. Eventually his commanding officer got tired of this, and Slocum was posted to the Photographic Development Unit."

In Edward Leaf's 'Above all unseen', he states that N7334 was the first Hudson to arrive at Heston, in February 1940 (three had been ordered in the preceding November). Solcum seems to have been the only pilot of this aircraft on operations, the first sortie being on 21 February. Leaf also states that he carried out a total of eight such flights. He mentions the camera fit as a single F24 in the floor of the rear fuselage, but that it was found to be more effective to use a hand-held F24 camera with a 8" lens. However, the photograph of a Hudson on the same page as this has a legend stating that the Hudson in the photograph was N7317 {hard to make out the marking scheme, but it looks like Dark Green/Dark Earth- or their closest matches in US paint, as used by Lockheed- over black with a low and wavy demarkation line}. The legend then states that this was used for low level reconnaissance, and that this particular aircraft was flown by Slocum to take the groundcrew of the Special Survey Flight to France on 5 Nov 1939 (a date that is strange considering Leaf's statement that the first Hudson to arrive at the Heston was N7334 in February).

Leaf gives the following account of one of Slocum's successful PR sorties, and details of his tragic last flight:

"The most successful mission, from a photographic point of view, was flown on 29th February. Slocum and his crew dropped down to a mere 300 ft to secure oblique photographs of both the north and south shores of the Elbe Estuary. Among the other details revealed by this sortie was the presence of an old Schlesian class battleship and a complete picture of the estuary's defences. Tragically, after obtaining photographs of the airfield at Gravesend on 3 March, Slocum was shot down in error by a Fighter Command Hurricane. Although the crew had made every effort to identify themselves by firing Verey lights and using a signalling lamp, it is generally assumed that the unusual duck-egg green colouring may have caused the Hudson to be confused with a similar looking German aircraft. The co-pilot, Sgt Reid, who had already been brought down once before by his own side, was the only survivor."

Names of those who were on board N7334, and someone stating that the aircraft was photographing RAF airfields.

A short letter, "Unhappy memories," published in Flight from J. A. M. Reid, the only survivor of the N7334 incident.

And a finally a find that I am proud of: a first hand account that ties in perfectly with the date, location of the fighter base and location of the crash. Also includes the most detailed account from Reid about what the Hudson was doing over Kent, and his experiences exiting the aircraft.

Edited October 5, 2010 by ben_m

[popeye]

Just stumbled on this thread by luck - congratulations

Seems to prove my view that a lively forum has it's limitations for finding topics if no fully searchable database is available - propose you getting in touch with Colin Shipton-Knight of the ipms.uk Photo Recce SIG !

Very much hope for more of the same.

popeye

[CCC]

thats brilliant, what a good find. Well done

makes interesting reading if somewhat sad

Edited October 5, 2010 by CCC

[ben_m]

thats brilliant, what a good find. Well done

makes interesting reading if somewhat sad

Yes, a sad story- this crew were the first casualties in Cotton's unit, and it affected him, I think. I have the Ralph Barker book on Cotton (Aviator Extraordinary) on loan from the library at the moment, but I left it at work. I am sure there is a bit about the incident in that book too.

If you come across the book you mentioned earlier with the photo of the camera fitted in the floor, could you let me know which one it was?

[Dave Fleming]

The Beech and the L12 interest me - had never seen a photo of the L12 with the RAF roundels before (BTW, if you didn't know, this aircraft still existsin the States!) - can I ask where you saw it?

Are there any photos of the Beech in Camotint? My understanding is it was painted in that at a later date?

Edited October 5, 2010 by Dave Fleming

[ben_m]

The Beech and the L12 interest me - had never seen a photo of the L12 with the RAF roundels before (BTW, if you didn't know, this aircraft still existsin the States!) - can I ask where you saw it?

Are there any photos of the Beech in Camotint? My understanding is it was painted in that at a later date?

The Beech was never painted Camoutint, in my opinion. There are only 3 photos of this aircraft that I know of, 1 of which is after it was repainted in RAF service- the other 2 just show a dark colour, that I thought colour be a dark red (seems quite a common Beech colour)- but may well have been dark blue. The US Air Attachés in London, Berlin and Paris all had Beech 17s, and they were painted blue. Bob Niven (who flew for Cotton as pilot and co-pilot from the very beginning) may have written in his journal that they used the fact that the SIS Beech was similar in appearance as cover. One thing to remember is that they never intended to use the Beech for PR, it was a run-around communications aircraft. The photographing of Wilhelmshaven was done at almost no notice, when the Lockheed was already in Germany (if my memory of the events is correct). Winterbotham had no other aircraft available, so Niven when in G-AESJ with an SIS photographer (more used to taking photos for fake passports) brought along to take the handheld photos.

On the subject of the Lockheed, I have electronic copies of two photos showing G-AFTL with fuselage roundels, that were part of a photographic journal kept by Bob Niven. These come from Dave Lefurgey, Bob's nephew. Dave is preparing a book that will include them, so I don't want to post them online. One photo is a close-up of someone standing in front of the fuselage door. The codes are clearly over-sprayed, but still readable, even in the white area of the new roundel. The second photo, taken at Bastia in Corsica, shows a refuelling scene, and the top of the port wing is visible, with only the palest hint of the serial, and no roundels on the upper surfaces.

Edited October 5, 2010 by ben_m

[Dave Fleming]

The Beech was never painted Camoutint, in my opinion. There are only 3 photos of this aircraft that I know of, 1 of which is after it was repainted in RAF service- the other 2 just show a dark colour, that I thought colour be a dark red (seems quite a common Beech colour)- but may well have been dark blue. The US Air Attachés in London, Berlin and Paris all had Beech 17s, and they were painted blue. Bob Niven (who flew for Cotton as pilot and co-pilot from the very beginning) may have written in his journal that they used the fact that the SIS Beech was similar in appearance as cover. One thing to remember is that they never intended to use the Beech for PR, it was a run-around communications aircraft. The photographing of Wilhelmshaven was done at almost no notice, when the Lockheed was already in Germany (if my memory of the events is correct). Winterbotham had no other aircraft available, so Niven when in G-AESJ with an SIS photographer (more used to taking photos for fake passports) brought along to take the handheld photos.

On the subject of the Lockheed, I have electronic copies of two photos showing G-AFTL with fuselage roundels, that were part of a photographic journal kept by Bob Niven. These come from Dave Lefurgey, Bob's nephew. Dave is preparing a book that will include them, so I don't want to post them online. One photo is a close-up of someone standing in front of the fuselage door. The codes are clearly over-sprayed, but still readable, even in the white area of the new roundel. The second photo, taken at Bastia in Corsica, shows a refuelling scene, and the top of the port wing is visible, with only the palest hint of the serial, and no roundels on the upper surfaces.

I'll look out for that book! - where was the pic of the repainted Beech?

Sorry for the questions, I'm quite interested in these aircraft!!

[ben_m]

I'll look out for that book! - where was the pic of the repainted Beech?

Sorry for the questions, I'm quite interested in these aircraft!!

The repainted Beech, ex G-AESJ, can be seen in this photo:

http://www.nvva.nl/renekrul/catalogs/beech...c-17r.ds180.jpg

I've been looking at some old sources, and I think I have pieced something together- and we may have a colour!

First off, the simplest piece of the puzzle: the civil registration document

This shows Surrey Flying Services as the owner of the aircraft until 24/03/39- this company was the UK distributor for Beech aircraft. They used the aircraft as a show aircraft- here it is in 1937 in Brussels.

The second owner is Charles Gardner, a Beech trader. He is the registered owner from 24-03-39 until Cotton buys the aircraft on 14-04-39.

From March 23 until April 13, an advert appears in every issue of Flight for a Wright Whirlwind-engined C17R

By April 20- C17R advert is not there.

Not only do these dates tie in perfectly with when Gardner would be advertising G-AESJ (allowing for him putting in the advert before he had completed the paperwork for the purchase from Surrey Flying Services), but the colour scheme mentioned fits the photo of G-AESJ from 1937 (see above): "yellow wings and tail, mauve fuselage, silver letters" If you look at the photo, you can see the interesting curved line along the wings where the colour changes- the wing outers sharing the colour with the tail. This is quite unusual- I have not seen a similar two-tone civilian Beech 17. I think it is safe to assume these adverts are for G-AESJ.

Which leads on to the colour that the plane would have had when Sidney Cotton owned it. If we know that the colourful two-tone colour scheme was kept until it was sold to Cotton, and that it was completely repainted in 1941 when commandeered by the RAF (seen link at top of post), then we can assume that this photo:

was taken while owned by Cotton (the background certainly doesn't rule out Heston). The colours of the fuselage compared to the codes and bird/stripe pattern match those in the Brussels photo, but the tail and wings are now the same tone as the fuselage. My current favourite choice for colour is therefore overall mauve.

The band on the cowling has also been repainted to match the fuselage. Now all I have to guess is the colour of the bird/stripe pattern. I am leaning towards a bronze colour, as the tone is right, and many Beech 17's feature this as an accent colour.

Edited October 5, 2010 by ben_m

[Dave Fleming]

The repainted Beech, ex G-AESJ, can be seen in this photo:

http://www.nvva.nl/renekrul/catalogs/beech...c-17r.ds180.jpg

Ah of course, I have seen that photo (and at least one other IIRC)

[ben_m]

Ah of course, I have seen that photo (and at least one other IIRC)

Sorry, I editted before you posted (and the edit took a while, as I added a lot!).

[CliffB]

A fascinating topic Ben - thanks for sharing it with us

Cliff

[Antoine]

Great topic, and beautiful PR spit

[CCC]

Here's a few images of Hudson finished the other day. Well it was until I saw the photos that

Ben provided.

Ho Hum

apologies for poor quality, did them with low light last night

Classic Airframes 1/48

3 or more years in the making, mostly off. Nearly binned it more than once.

Edited October 6, 2010 by CCC

[ReccePhreak]

Here's a few images of Hudson finished the other day. Well it was until I saw the photos that
Ben provided.
Ho Hum

apologies for poor quality, did them with low light last night

Classic Airframes 1/48

3 or more years in the making, mostly off. Nearly binned it more than once.

GREAT JOB on your Hudson!!

The Classic Airframes kit is on my Want List, but it's almost impossible to find one, especially at a price I can afford. I may have to go with a 1/72 kit, even though the available 1/72 ones are also expensive.

Larry Edited April 28, 2014 by ReccePhreak

[ben_m]

I've made some more progress in research, if not in modelling...

From Colin S-K I received a lot of very interesting material, the most interest source for this time period are the following documents sent from the PDU after the Hudson was lost to friendly fire. It conclusively shows the Hudson colour scheme as being blue and green with off-white stripes on the uppers. I was very interested to see the all-camotint Blenheim.

I am coming around to the idea that L1348 (the streamlined Blenheim I) was not adapted by Cotton's unit, but was instead a RAE project (maybe in part to see if they could make a faster Blenheim than Cotton). I visited RAF Museum Archive at Hendon, and I have a photo of a Hudson I have not seen before- with Camotint/Sky undersurfaces and teardrop side windows. I also have photos of a VIP visiting the PRU, and apparently having taken a flight in a Mosquito PR I- I'll post them later to see if anyone can ID the man- I'm guessing Geoffrey de Havilland.

Here is a link to the G-AGAR thread, in case anyone interested missed it.

And the more recent thread on PR Spitfires.

[kev67]

As to attaching clear parts, I use a small amount of crystal clear dabbed around the edge using a cocktail stick and position the window in place, let this dry then flood the area with Johnsons Klear

[Seahawk]

Regarding windows. I believe that both side windows were opened up so that each have a camera pointing down approx 30 degrees.

other cameras were installed, however no info as to exactly where.

I found photo in RAF Photo Recce book (can't recall exact name at time of writting) that clearly shows vertical camera installation just forward of the door.

So thats where I put it.

Think the photo you refer to is on page 86 of "Eyes Of The RAF" by Roy Conyers Nesbit (Sutton, 1998). Close-up of oblique F.24 mounting shooting out of last cabin window before the door. Window appears glazed and normal size. Plus vertical F.24 shooting vertically down through cabin floor. Installation is right into the angle between the floor and the fuselage side and in line with the oblique installation. Looks as if the boxy bits of the camera are mounted on the floor with just the circular lens below it. Vertical installation surrounded by rectangular metal frame (presumably to protect against careless feet) starting out from the ribs immediately ahead of and behind the window: 6-8" high with large circular lightening holes. No info on which Hudson it was: photo credited to F/L GH Parry if that helps.

HTH. Fascinating thread by the way and some excellent models.