Help on Il-4

[Massimo Tessitori]

Hi,

I am looking for any good building report on the Il-4 of Zvezda and/or of Revell or Veb Plasticart.

I remember that there was a building report of Ken Duffey somewhere, but I haven't the link.

I would add such a link on a page of profiles on Il-4 recently added here

http://mig3.sovietwarplanes.com/db3-il4/db3-il4.htm

and eventually for a future build of my kit of Revell.

Regards

Massimo

[Flankerman]

I remember that there was a building report of Ken Duffey somewhere, but I haven't the link.

Not me Guv.........

I have a couple in the stash - but I have never done a build/review, sorry.......

Ken

[Massimo Tessitori]

Not me Guv.........

I have a couple in the stash - but I have never done a build/review, sorry.......

Ken

Hi Ken,

this explain why the research engine hasn't found this building report. I wonder where I have seen it, and who wrote it.

Could you write your impressions on these models, if you have examined them?

Regards

Massimo

[Ed Russell]

good building report on the Il-4 of Zvezda and/or of Revell or Veb Plasticart.

There are no good building reports - they are all sweat, blood and tears (:>)

I have an article in Russian and I built VVS and Ilmoivat versions a long time ago - but the memory of the pain lingers....

Second one down

http://vvs.hobbyvista.com/ModelGallery/ily_il4.php

My impressions - the Zvezda kit is pretty awful, mainly because of it's dimensional faults, you need to cut the fuselage into pieces to lengthen it, the Revell one is worse as it has the dumbest breakdown of parts imaginable. There is a vacform one which I haven't seen but I have some pics of a quite creditable build of it.

I really like the Il-4 and I'm really grateful to the kit manufacturers for kitting it. I suppose I will have to build a couple more before Tamiya do theirs......

Edited May 23, 2012 by Ed Russell

[Learstang]

Very nice job on that IL-4, Ed! I just took a look at it. It would be nice if instead of manufacturers releasing yet another s****ing Bf-109 or F-18, someone would come out with a decent IL-4 in 1/72nd scale. Nice to see you on this forum, Massimo! I'm trying my best to educate these chaps on the Shturmovik.

Regards,

Jason

Edited May 23, 2012 by Learstang

[Flankerman]

Meanwhile, here's what an Il-4 looks like.....

There is also a DB-3 at Monino........

Ken

[Massimo Tessitori]

Hi Ed,

thank you for the explanation and the link, even if the thing looks very discouraging. Your article will be welcome.

I've heard that the Revell has a bad section of the fuselage, I wonder if this involves transparent parts too.

Eventually I could follow the way of the kitbashing, having the Revell kit and the vacuformed canopy of Falcon for the Zvezda. Who knows how could I obtain the engine cowlings for the early version with bulges? Maybe from some French plane?

Hi Jason,

nice to meet you here.

Hi Ken,

thank you for the pictures.

What about kits of DB-3? Is there a kit of Eastern Express, isn't it?

Regards

Massimo

Edited May 23, 2012 by Massimo Tessitori

[Ed Russell]

What about kits of DB-3? Is there a kit of Eastern Express, isn't it?

I have the Eastern Express DB-3 kit (I'm just a sucker for punishment) and it's just the Zvezda kit with a different shaped nose. To obtain the full sado-masochistic experience from these kits you should turn up some cowlings on a lathe.

[Massimo Tessitori]

I have the Eastern Express DB-3 kit (I'm just a sucker for punishment) and it's just the Zvezda kit with a different shaped nose. To obtain the full sado-masochistic experience from these kits you should turn up some cowlings on a lathe.

Hi Ed,

so, the Il-4 of Zvezda and of Eastern Express are from the same mould, and require more or less the same corrections?

Regards

Massimo

[BallsBuster]

Hi,

There were three different offerings of Il-4 in the 90s - produced by Alfa, Horos and Veb

- Alfa forms went to Zvezda and is packed by them.

- Horos - (the one that allows you to build Db-3 or Db-3F) was re-packed by Maquette (and possibly Eastern Express) - Raised panel lines, thick canopies etc

- VEB Plasticart - was inherited by Revell

There was a build article in Aeroplan magazine (I think #12, 1995) with comparison of Horos and Alfa kits. I beleive you could find it on the web (naturally it is in Russian). Zvezda kit is definetely easier to build and has better detailing, although sitll has some accuracy issues.

[pigsty]

Zvezda kit is definetely easier to build and has better detailing, although sitll has some accuracy issues.

Blimey. The Zvezda kit has inner wings to which you attach the engine nacelles, and then the outer wings after that. How much worse engineered could the other kits be?

[Paul J]

I did a review of one some years ago for SAMI. Don't remember whose kit it was though I finished it in Finnish markings. As per comments above....'nuff said!

[Ed Russell]

Zvezda kit is definetely easier to build and has better detailing, although sitll has some accuracy issues.

How much worse engineered could the other kits be?

Unfortunately, despite it's poor engineering, the Zvezda kit is definitely the best, although "some" accuracy issues is being kind to it. See my link above.

The Maquette kit is truly awful to look at but I haven't done detailed measurements on it (too scared!) and the Revell/VEB has its fuselage in four longitudinal sections.

My Eastern Express kit appears to be a hybrid with an "NKR Models" stamp on it, cobbled up from Zvezda and other bits.

However, I'm not going to complain too much as without these pioneer models, I would never have built an Il-4.

Edited May 23, 2012 by Ed Russell

[CarLos]

There is a vacform one which I haven't seen but I have some pics of a quite creditable build of it.

Probably the Contrail Il-4/DB-3 double kit. In the sheets it seems to be quite nice.

[Troy Smith]

HI

on Modeling Madness there is review of this VP Canada 1/72 IL-4/M-88B vacform

Vacuform kit with resin parts for one of three versions of the Il-4/DB-3, DB-3M, DB-3F and the final M88B

http://www.modelingmadness.com/review/alli...r/attardil4.htm

cheers

T

[BallsBuster]

Blimey. The Zvezda kit has inner wings to which you attach the engine nacelles, and then the outer wings after that. How much worse engineered could the other kits be?

You need to see the Horos /Maquette kit to understand

Also forgot to mention above there also was a YMTK vacu formed kit (I even might have it somewhere in my stash) - which would be event harder to build than anything else (even VEB kit)

Regarding Zvezda vs Horos.. I built my Zvezda a long time ago... and my zvezda came without the clear parts so I borrowed them from Horos kit (which had double) so cannot comment on accurasy, but if I remember the article correctly - Horos was a few mm smaller in span than ideal.. I need to dig the mag out to doublecheck.

[adlersieg]

Hi guys, Massimo

I have the Eastern Express DB-3 kit (I'm just a sucker for punishment) and it's just the Zvezda kit with a different shaped nose.

Nope, these kits are different and the difference is not in the clear sprue only, the fuselage parts are different too. I can't compare the details because I have the Maquette's DB on sprues but my Il-4 is built and I did it very long time ago. But wait, here is a review on Zvezda's kit. I can't find the review on Maquette, but if it's needed I will upload some pix this weekend.

Massimo, seems to be there is no step-by-steb building of Il-4/DB-3 but I found 2 excellent works. Hope it will help you:

Maquette's DB-3 by Mozart

Zvezda's DB-3f by Tsyupa Vadim

and also I wanna add to the list the third one. I'm not impessed by photos but there is a good building description. It's in Russian but you can translate it via translate.google.com

Zvezda+Revell's Il-4t by Ilya Grinberg

Who knows how could I obtain the engine cowlings for the early version with bulges? Maybe from some French plane?

Massimo, Could you show these nacelles on the photo or scheme?

Regards, Mikhail

[Massimo Tessitori]

Hi all, thank you for your interesting informations.

I've the model of Revell (VEB plasticart) home, I'll write some notes on it. It doesn't seem too ugly, the most worrying thing is the section of the fuselage that is too squared, and the base of the stabilizer whose thicknes increases with a step.

Hi Ballsbuster

Nope, these kits are different and the difference is not in the clear sprue only, the fuselage parts are different too. I can't compare the details because I have the Maquette's DB on sprues but my Il-4 is built and I did it very long time ago. But wait, here is a review on Zvezda's kit. I can't find the review on Maquette, but if it's needed I will upload some pix this weekend.

Maybe, so we can make some comparison. Very kind of you.

Hi Mikhail,

Massimo, seems to be there is no step-by-steb building of Il-4/DB-3 but I found 2 excellent works. Hope it will help you:

Maquette's DB-3 by Mozart

Very interesting. I wonder what works has he done on it.

Zvezda's DB-3f by Tsyupa Vadim

Splendid, but it's a too sophisticated work to be suggested to many modellers.

Zvezda+Revell's Il-4t by Ilya Grinberg

Excellent, I saw the photos on Hobbyvista but I didn't know about the article in Russian. I'm in contact with Ilya and have obtained his permission to translate this article for the Il-4 page. I'll use an automatic translator, perhaps I'll need some help.

Massimo, Could you show these nacelles on the photo or scheme?

Certainly, here are some photos:

http://mig3.sovietwarplanes.com/db3-il4/ta...ining-red11.htm

http://mig3.sovietwarplanes.com/db3-il4/tapani/red72.htm

Regards

Massimo

Edited May 24, 2012 by Massimo Tessitori

[Massimo Tessitori]

Hi,

I've made an automatic translation, but the IM translator made a poor work. Could anyone help me to improve the translation or to suggest another translator, please? For some reason, the one of Google hasn't worked on this page.

Regards

Massimo

p.s. I've obtained a much better translation now, but I would be glad if someone of English motherlanguage could have a look at it.

Edited May 24, 2012 by Massimo Tessitori

[adlersieg]

Certainly, here are some photos

Ah I see. It must be early type cowlings for m-88 engine. Pity, but another m-88 and m-87 engined planes had cowlings without such bumps, sorry. There are no replacement resin cowlings on market too.

PS: this link could be useful for you too.

[Massimo Tessitori]

Ah I see. It must be early type cowlings for m-88 engine. Pity, but another m-88 and m-87 engined planes had cowlings without such bumps, sorry. There are no replacement resin cowlings on market too.

PS: this link could be useful for you too.

Hi,

I've seen now that the engines of Bloch 174 of Heller are very similar. The diameter fits too. Only the oil cooler intake must be shortened. The propeller is very similar, but the Bloch has controrotating props while those of DB-3F rotate on the same side. I've one wrecked Bloch that could be utilized, should I ever try to build a DB-3F.

Interesting link, thank you. I've added this to the page on Il-4 aside the other ones emerged from this topic.

Regards

Massimo

[adlersieg]

I've seen now that the engines of Bloch 174 of Heller are very similar. The diameter fits too. Only the oil cooler intake must be shortened. The propeller is very similar, but the Bloch has controrotating props while those of DB-3F rotate on the same side. I've one wrecked Bloch that could be utilized, should I ever try to build a DB-3F.

I must check it. If your story is true you hepled me very much *)

And one more link with ebay photos of Il-4 and other soviet a/c

Edited May 25, 2012 by adlersieg

[Massimo Tessitori]

I must check it. If your story is true you hepled me very much *)

And one more link with ebay photos of Il-4 and other soviet a/c

Please keep me informed on your check. Thank you for the link again.

I've made some research on ebay, and I see that only the Il-4T of Zvezda is easily available on the market. I'll have to take in account this for the page.

Regards

Massimo

[Massimo Tessitori]

Hi all,

here I've found photos of the sprues of a DB-3 of Maquette. Really a poor model, with the same scomposition of wings and nacelles of Zvezda. But better than nothing.

http://www.hobby.dn.ua/product_info.php?pr...amp;language=en

Regards

Massimo

[Massimo Tessitori]

Hi,

I am in doubt about an apparent discrepancy between texts and photos of Il-4s built after 1943.

According to many textual sources, it looks that the wing was modified in late 1942/43. For example, see

http://www.airwar.ru/enc/bww2/il4.html

A plane with wooden and thicker wings with a swept platform, containing additional tanks, increased flaps area and reinforcements on the lower surface, was tested in october 1942, followed by at least 10 similar production planes. It looks that, although heavier, its flight characteristics were better because the cg has moved backward with the modifications made in 1941/early 1942, as it was for the Il-2, and the increase in range was good.

The planes with wooden wings were more vulnerable to enemy fire, so they weren't accepted for mass production.

At this point, one should deduct that a thicker metal wing with additional tanks and swept platform and increased flaps area had taken the place of the earlier one, but the textual sources are unclear on this. Some affirm this, as Gordon, some speak only about increasing of flaps and wing thickness, larger wheels and new props, as Stapfer on 'In action'.

The photos of the prototype with wooden wing show clearly that it had the inner aileron section deleted to increase the flaps, but all photos of late Il-4s I have show the usual ailerons in three sections, apparently as the planes of 1941.

I think that the authors of the books themselves don't know this. In the good monograph of Kotelnikov, there is a 5 views drawing of the prototype with wooden arrow wings aside many earlier variants, but no any drawing of the late standard Il-4 with metal wings.

I had a look to the photos of the plane in Monino, but it shows some strange characteristics, as the flat wingtips and asymmetrical panelling, probably due to the fact that it was rebuilt from a wreck. Besides it results built before the modification of the wings.

Any ideas?

Regards

Massimo