New 1/72nd Airfix B-17G, built as an RAF Fortress Mk.III.- FINISHED

[tonyot]

Here is a bit more progress,.........

 

The interior of the nose has been repainted black, the window side panels have been added, mid upper turret base has been fitted, the engines have been fitted and the rear turret has been filled and sanded to match the rear fuselage, with a small amount of filler applied to wing roots too;

a close up of the nose and engines;

And with the light fading the grey painted engine crank cases have been fitted with the outer engine fitted with the cowling. Take care to fit the correct cooling gills and foillow the instructions;

 

Cheers for now,......soon be painting,

 

Tony

[stever219]

Have you had to fill the port leading edge inboard of number 1 engine?  I've not got that far with mine yet but a couple of test fits suggest that the joint might not be entirely perfect.

 

incidentally in an earlier oost there's a reference to the very late B-17Fs, including the SR3?? batch, being almost identical to early 'Gs.  Do you know if that extends to the staggered waist gun positions?  Even if they had them I suspect that, unless modified, they'd have the earlier tail turret installation, rather than the Cheyenne fit that Airfix have reproduced.

 

Edit: I've just found a profile of B-17F Fortress II SR386, BU-A, showing staggered enclosed waist gun positions but with the earlier tail gun position.  The nose windows don't quite seem to match those of the B-17G either. 

 

I know there's no substitute for a period photo or detailed description of the subject by someone who was there and accurately recorded the details and you've got to hope that the creator of the illustration had, and took notice of, such information.

Edited November 16, 2016 by stever219
Using keyboard before looking for evidence.

[tonyot]

46 minutes ago, stever219 said:

Have you had to fill the port leading edge inboard of number 1 engine?  I've not got that far with mine yet but a couple of test fits suggest that the joint might not be entirely perfect.

 

incidentally in an earlier oost there's a reference to the very late B-17Fs, including the SR3?? batch, being almost identical to early 'Gs.  Do you know if that extends to the staggered waist gun positions?  Even if they had them I suspect that, unless modified, they'd have the earlier tail turret installation, rather than the Cheyenne fit that Airfix have reproduced.

 

Edit: I've just found a profile of B-17F Fortress II SR386, BU-A, showing staggered enclosed waist gun positions but with the earlier tail gun position.  I know there's no substitute for a period photo or detailed description of the subject by someone who was there and accurately recorded the details and you've got to hope that the creator of the illustration had, and took notice of, such information.

 

Hiya Steve,

                No I`ve not had to fill in the leading edge which you describe. Re the late B-17F`s that you refer to, I suspect that the waist gun positions would be un staggerred and that the early tail position was in use,.....both as per early B-17G`s,......but they do have the G type cheek gun positions which were also employed by a number of F variants too.  As photos of RAF Fortress Mk.II`s are not particularly common, a tip that I can suggest is to find the USAAF seral of the aircraft in question and then check American B-17`s around the same serial block to see what `mods' etc they had. Here are some photo of what could be SR386, BU-A;

 

And here is a photo of SR384, BU-A ,...it is hard to tell which type of cheek gin position it has from this view, but in both aircraft they are overpainted;

 

 

 

the Fortress Mk.II was also used by Coastal Command too such as FA699/K here and these are a good source of reference too,.....many of these were received directly from the USA rather than from the 8th AF and had unaltered nose windows with three identical windows, but remember that the Mk.IIa variant was actually the earlier B-17E version;

'

 

This book is a fantastic source of reference on British B-17`s,......even though in concentrates mainly on Coastal Command aircraft,...it is superb;

 

Hope that helps,

Cheers

            Tony

Edited November 16, 2016 by tonyot

[modelglue]

I'm happy to follow along and read all the research done. When I read about the apparent limited quantity and therefore shortage of DK sets representing 100 group I scampered about the net looking feverishly for a copy. I am happy to report I found one and will be using other parts of the sheet on Mossies and Halibags! Deception, here we come (eventually, in the distant future).

[stever219]

Thanks Tony; it looks like my possible fit problems could be due to operator error..  

 

I hadn't really appreciated until reading this thread that Coastal Command flew Fortress IIIs.  I certainly don't recall seeing any photos of them, so I think the Stitt tome might be finding its way onto my Christmas wish list.

[tonyot]

1 hour ago, stever219 said:

Thanks Tony; it looks like my possible fit problems could be due to operator error..  

 

I hadn't really appreciated until reading this thread that Coastal Command flew Fortress IIIs.  I certainly don't recall seeing any photos of them, so I think the Stitt tome might be finding its way onto my Christmas wish list.

If you Google `Fortress III' you`ll find a few Coastal Fortress III`s,.....they remainind in silver with chin turrets etc;

 

Quite a few wore codes,.....usually ZZ or AD. 

 

As I said, they flew Mk.II`s (B-17F`s) as well;

 

I cannot recommend the Coastal Fortress book highly enough,......plus there are on line updates which add extra pages,

 

Cheers

          Tony

 

Edited November 16, 2016 by tonyot

[tonyot]

Hiya Folks,.....another quick update,........I`ve added all of the engines and nacelles now and test fitted the props;

I`ve also test fitted the glazed nose bubble and some of the 100 Gp. modifications can be seen including the radar scanner, Window chutes and the four exhaust flame dampers; 

 

Most 100 Gp Fortress photos show a blackout curtain across the nose opening so I`ll be adding this, maybe using black plastic, and in many B-17`s the the bottom of the nose features a section of airframe with holes in it as seen here in my subject aircraft;

,..... so I`m going to have a go at this using plastic card,

 

Cheers

           Tony

 

PS- I will of course be dulling down the wheel hubs by painting them black, now that I have settled on a particular aircraft subject.

Edited November 16, 2016 by tonyot

[T-21]

If building a PFF B-17G with the Mickey radome in place of the ball turret do not forget the radio altimeter antenna mounted under the wings ,interesting thread from Paul Bellamy on page 2 for location on the undersurfaces. http://warbirdinformationexchange.org/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=32120

Edited November 16, 2016 by T-21
.

[tonyot]

14 minutes ago, T-21 said:

If building a PFF B-17G with the Mickey radome in place of the ball turret do not forget the radio altimeter antenna mounted under the wings ,interesting thread from Paul Bellamy on page 2 for location on the undersurfaces. http://warbirdinformationexchange.org/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=32120

Thanks for that mate,...interesting threat....but I`m building a 100 Group RAF aircraft, not a USAAF PFF aircraft. I`ve had a look through some pics and cannot see the same radio altimeter antenna fitted below the wings of a British 100 Gp Fortress;

 

Cheers

          Tony

[woody37]

Just caught up Tony, looking great

 

Cheers

[Stew Dapple]

7 minutes ago, woody37 said:

Just caught up Tony, looking great

 

Cheers

 

It sure is. Every time Tony builds something I get the urge to buy one... 

 

Cheers,

 

Stew

[modelglue]

2 minutes ago, Stew Dapple said:

 

It sure is. Every time Tony builds something I get the urge to buy one... 

 

Cheers,

 

Stew

No one told me as an adult I'd have compelling urges of a different sort...

 

It's looking very, very nice @tonyot, Seems a must-have at this point.

[DaveCromie]

Just fully caught up with this thread and I think I've learned more today about 100 Group Fortresses than I have done since I resumed modelling - brilliant thread! Can't wait to see more progress with the build as I'm planning on acquiring one of these beauties for Christmas

 

Now sitting back to enjoy the rest of the thread!

 

DC

[tonyot]

Cheers everybody,...glad you like it so far,......but remember that the cockpit should be a darker green and not interior green as I`ve portrayed it, plus the bomb bay and rear fuselage on normal B-17`s should be silver,.......I have painted mine differently as it appears that 100 Grouip painted the interior of the fuselage  in order to cut down on glare from search light, ,....I chose interior green but in retrospect wish I had chosen black,....as per the areas open to the glare of the lights on the later Lancaster and Halifax,.....and black is what I used for the nose position.  So if you are building a standard USAAF B-17G,.....don`t follow my lead!

 

Anyway,......now we`ve got that out of the way,.......I`ve been doing a bit more on the Fortress today but ran out of daylight for most of the pics. Here is the section of plastic card added to the bottom of the nose opening, which is apparent on some B-17`s including most 100 Gp including KJ117 which is the aircraft that I`m building. 

Here it is;

This evening I have also constructed a blackout curtain for the nose using black plastic.

 

As well as this I have scratch built wind breaks for the waist gun positions along with strakes above the opening using plastic card and strip and added  the brass etched gun `blanks' for protecting the tail and wings of the aircraft from being shot at in erro......although one of these was lost when it pinged away into the ether,.....so I made one from plastic card,.....I`ll add pics tomorrow but here is what I was aiming for,....... .

Photo courtesy of my Canadian friend Carl Vincent. 

and this one;

 

And here is the photo that I was looking for depicting the codes of KJ117 after it had transferred to the RWE, What is interesting is that beneath the `U3' codes, the painted out codes `6G' can also be made out,......so as the record states, this aircraft did also serve with 223 Sqn (as well as 214 Sqn),...presumably as 6G-E so that is another decal option worth considering, although I`ll check further first! Here is the photo,.....I eventually found it in a nice little article in Flypast magazine;

  

 

All the best for now,

                              Tony

Edited November 17, 2016 by tonyot

[modelglue]

I hate to be a serial commenter, but I had to drop in to express my excitement at seeing how beautifully Airfix have rendered the cowls. They look like I think every other kit I have should. 

 

Interesting photo of the waist gun position, with the "don't shoot here" guides! Are those to be modelled or are they considered too finicky in the one true scale.

[tonyot]

6 minutes ago, modelglue said:

I hate to be a serial commenter, but I had to drop in to express my excitement at seeing how beautifully Airfix have rendered the cowls. They look like I think every other kit I have should. 

 

Interesting photo of the waist gun position, with the "don't shoot here" guides! Are those to be modelled or are they considered too finicky in the one true scale.

As far as I know, every 100 Group Fortress had them as it was hard to see where your wings and tail were in the pitch black at night and it was very easy to shoot at parts of your own aerolane! The mid upper turrets on Lancs, Halifax`s etc had electrical cut outs which prevented the guns from firing when lined up with parts of the aeroplane but those with manual guns like the Fortress and the Hampden had a framework added instead,

 

Personally I would say that a 100 Gp Fort would look strange without them,......but I made one tonight from plastic card in 5 minutes,.....so it isn`t hard,...have a look at the pics tomorrow,

 

Cheers

          Tony

[tonyot]

Hiya Folks,.....well here are some photos to help explain the comments from last night.

 

First of all the waist gun positions, showing the wind break and strakes above the opening, made from plastic card and the etched brass gun stops and resin Window chutes from the Paragon set. I may add some wire to the gun stops after the painting stages are over ;

One of the brass etched gun stops was lost and a replacement was made from plastic card.

 

In the nose, a blackout curtain was made from thin black plast from a cheap disposable bag which was then painted matt black and the Paragon resin part fro the 

beam upon which the infra red id equipment was mounted (as also seen in the nose blister of later Lancaster`s) which identified the aircraft as friendly to rear gunners in preceding aircraft fitted with rear facing early warning systems. The resin H2S scanner has also been temporarily fitted, having had a base built up from a piece of sprue and a round propeller retaining section with a hole in it from the spares box.   

 

So thats it for now,.....I`ll probably get on and start brushing on the Dark Eatrh upper surfaces this afternoon,

 

Cheers

            Tony

Edited November 18, 2016 by tonyot

[gcds]

Are there any decals available for AAF PFF aircraft?

[tonyot]

3 hours ago, gcds said:

Are there any decals available for AAF PFF aircraft?

I really don`t know,.....have you tried a Google search?

[T-21]

GCDS  this company produce excellent decals you can modify to make any serial number http://www.kitsworld.co.uk/index.php?CATEGORY=5&SUB=1&THISPAGE=3&RADIOSORT=4&PICFILE=74&STKNR=74&STRH=3332&ORDN=2350&RNZ=562911

[modelling minion]

Fantastic work Tony, and great attention to detail. This is definitely going to be my "go to" source for info for when I build mine.

 

Keep up the good work.

 

Craig.

[gcds]

Thanks for the link to the decal sheets, I will use these if I find a good photo of a PFF B17 without noseart.

[tonyot]

Hiya Folks,.....as an aside,.......I`ve always fancied building this B-17G in USAAF masrkings and it might be my next one?;

From the 406th Night Leaflet Sqn which was unfortunately shot down by British AA fire returning from a night leaflet sortie over Holland. Most of the crew baled out but both pilots were killed.

Modelling wise,.....as far as I know it had the Cheyanne turret,...but it is hard to tell? Codes have been portrayed as yellow or grey and were the British style anti glare boxes fitted,.......if anybody knows I`d lov to har from you please?

Cheers

           Tony

Edited November 20, 2016 by tonyot

[mungo1974]

Tondalayo is one subject i like to do....the limited research i did,i came to the conclusion the codes were grey. I was in contact with the wreck recovery team back in 2000,in the hope of gaining more info. But the divers said that the whole rear fuselage behind the radio room was crushed flat and buried in mud.

 

It was a somber yet joyous day the divers announced they found the remains of Lt Col Aber and the Co-pilot Lt Harper in the bomb bay area,They'd let the rest of the crew bail out and turned the burning Fortress back out to sea...but sadly ran out of time and altitude and couldn't escape before it struck the water in the Harwich Estuary.

They were both laid to rest with full military honors   

[modelglue]

1 hour ago, tonyot said:

Hiya Folks,.....as an aside,.......I`ve always fancied building this B-17G in USAAF masrkings and it might be my next one?;

 

So let it be written.

 

Another one to follow and possibly emulate (funds allowing).