Thinking of building multiple Harriers 1/72

[Dave Fleming]

4 minutes ago, Stratto said:

Just looking at some Harrier details and it mentions N04 squadron two tone green/grey wraparound excuse my ignorance does that just mean the whole aircraft? All around it.

Yes, the camouflage goes all round the aircraft. Earlier aircraft had light grey undersides.

[tempestfan]

On 3/12/2024 at 10:26 PM, Stratto said:

Just looking at some Harrier details and it mentions N04 squadron two tone green/grey wraparound excuse my ignorance does that just mean the whole aircraft? All around it.

I'd recommend the Aeroguide on the Harrier 3, both for details and the storyline of camouflage.

[Stratto]

Thanks I just bought a copy I have went a bit crazy buying Harriers but it will be a nice project I now have 2 x Hasegawa GR3,  1 x Hasegawa Sea Harrier FRS Mk.1,

2 x Italeri Harrier GR.1, 2 x Italeri GR.3, 1 x Italeri Sea Harrier FRS.1 and 1 x Airfix BAe Harrier GR7A/GR9 all 1/72nd scale 

 

I also have Airfix BAe Harrier GR3 1/48 a Kinetic GR1/GR3 1/48 Kinetic FRS.1 1/48 and a Kinetic GR.3 1/48 so not sure which one to do first probably the Hasegawa FRS.1 1/72

 

great tip tempestfan on the reference material. 

[Max Headroom]

Other manufacturers of Harriers/Sea Harriers in 1/72 include

 

Matchbox - very basic

 

Fujimi - well regarded at the time. Stickies may need replacing.

 

Hasegawa - same as Fujimi above

 

Bobcat/Humbrol - a snap fit T2 or T4. Basic very simplified with no hangy bits at all. (C Scale provided white metal necessaries). The Esci wing was a drop fit onto the fuselage……

 

Sword have also done a series of two seaters

 

Airfix - the original 1960’s GR.1 modded in the early 80’s to GR.3. Generous ordnance provision 

 

Frog and the Frogsspawn - crude 

Pegasus T.2 conversion. To be grafted on the original Airfix kit. ‘A collector’s item’

 

Some of the kits, like Fujimi and Hasegawa and of course Esci/Italeri, have break joints for the Harrier and Sea Harrier.

 

Others may be able to give better insight into the specifics of the kits above.

 

HTH

 

Trevor

[Stratto]

Thanks Max Headroom I am starting with these and see how I go I am just getting back in to kits after many years. I think I have all that I need now watching YouTube videos and looking online for tips and tricks. There is also a lot of information on the Britmodeller forum. 

[tempestfan]

1 hour ago, Stratto said:

Thanks I just bought a copy I have went a bit crazy buying Harriers but it will be a nice project I now have 2 x Hasegawa GR3,  1 x Hasegawa Sea Harrier FRS Mk.1,

2 x Italeri Harrier GR.1, 2 x Italeri GR.3, 1 x Italeri Sea Harrier FRS.1 and 1 x Airfix BAe Harrier GR7A/GR9 all 1/72nd scale 

 

I also have Airfix BAe Harrier GR3 1/48 a Kinetic GR1/GR3 1/48 Kinetic FRS.1 1/48 and a Kinetic GR.3 1/48 so not sure which one to do first probably the Hasegawa FRS.1 1/72

 

great tip tempestfan on the reference material. 

You're welcome!

 

If you are looking for additional references, the May 1983 issue of SMI was a "SHar special" and included scale drawings; reprinted in one of the Aircraft Archive Post-War Jets volumes, as were the GR.1 drawings (I can't quote you issues of SM/SMI in which they were printed for the latter). If you have the Airfix GR.3 in 1/48 (which is their 1983 SHar with some new parts), you may be in for a culture shock compared to the Kinetics. The drawings may be useful in general if you want to rescribe, and IIRC the SHar ailerons had incorrect span. 

49 minutes ago, Max Headroom said:

Other manufacturers of Harriers/Sea Harriers in 1/72 include

 

Matchbox - very basic ...and no sharp edges to be found anywhere, everything is rounded; GR.1, GR.3 and FRS.1

 

Fujimi - well regarded at the time. Stickies may need replacing. Also boxed by Revell in the mid 80s; very similar in general approach to the Esci's, but IIRC is somewhat chunkier, may be a bit oversize; GR.1/AV-8A and FRS.1, probably also GR.3. Would have to check but I'm inclined to bet it had standard RAF 2.75" Matra pods all over the range.

 

Hasegawa - same as Fujimi above Wasn't the airbrake of the FRS.1 the same size as with a GR on this one? The original GR.1 mould wasn't one but a pre-series machine with the unblended front nozzle fairings; I ***think*** this was replaced when they did the SHar.

 

Bobcat/Humbrol - a snap fit T2 or T4. Basic very simplified with no hangy bits at all. (C Scale provided white metal necessaries). The Esci wing was a drop fit onto the fuselage……  ... and u/c moulded integrally with the fuselage. Fin height topic?

 

Sword have also done a series of two seaters

 

Airfix - the original 1960’s GR.1 modded in the early 80’s to GR.3. Generous ordnance provision My first aircraft kit in 1978, so it has a special place for me. Not a bad one, but eclipsed by Esci and Fujimi. IIRC has an undersized canopy. And compare the Aden pods with those by Esci.

 

Frog and the Frogsspawn - crude The original Frog was the Hase pre-series mentioned above, and they copied the mould when their arrangement with Hase ended- - just like the Lightning. Great for a pre-series airframe, and one of very few kits to include 60s CBLS and 10 pdr (?) practice bombs, albeit a bit crude by today's standards.

Pegasus T.2 conversion. To be grafted on the original Airfix kit. ‘A collector’s item’ There was also a ReyHex conversion which may be even more collectible. 

 

Some of the kits, like Fujimi and Hasegawa and of course Esci/Italeri, have break joints for the Harrier and Sea Harrier. Not the original Hase - would have to have a look at my SHar, but it would make sense.

 

Others may be able to give better insight into the specifics of the kits above.

 

HTH

 

Trevor

Just my 2p, and not "better", but hopefully useful. I had the great pleasure of being blow-dried by an RAFG Harrier around 1980 at an airshow somewhere around Cologne after a pretty atrocious downpour. To be honest, it would be rather cool if I could pin the airframe and pilot. I'll have a look and try if I can be more precise.

[NG899]

Stratto, Drop me a PM with your email address in it and I’ll lob you some things over to help you. 
 

Big tip… work out the colour schemes you’d like to make each mark in, from that you can work back to squadron and potential loadouts. The info I have can help you there.

 

I’m NOT a 1/72 builder but from what I’ve heard, the kits I’d use are:

GR1 - Airfix. (Better than the Hasegawa one.)

GR3 -Airfix, adjusting the fin tip height, an easy fix. (Ditto.)

FRS1- Esci. (Now boxed by Italeri iirc. Fujimi also did a reasonable FRS1.)

FA2 - Esci, using the Airfix FA2 radome suitably modified, adjusting the wings and adding the plug behind the wings from scratch.

GR7/9 - Airfix.

 

Dave Fleming please feel free to chip in!

 

Finally, remember despite being modest little grey/green or grey jets, “Harriers are complex beasts!” Lots of traps for the unwary.

 

All the best

 

Nick

[cardiff guy]

The Airfix GR 1/ 3 pips the Esci it for me.

 

 

Regards Glenn.

[Karearea]

I built an ESCI Sea Harrier in the FAA GB and thought it was a lovely kit from my inexperienced perspective. You can build an accurate scheme from the box if you chop and change the decal sheet a little, but it gives you a post-Falklands SHAR. Just don’t paint it extra dark sea grey like I did, it should be Barley / medium sea grey.

 

 

[Max Headroom]

12 hours ago, Stratto said:

Thanks Max Headroom I am starting with these and see how I go I am just getting back in to kits after many years. I think I have all that I need now watching YouTube videos and looking online for tips and tricks. There is also a lot of information on the Britmodeller forum. 

I’d forgotten that Hasegawa did an early GR.1. I think the FROG one was ‘inspired’ by it.

 

Trevor

[WillDeeks]

On 15/03/2024 at 18:58, Max Headroom said:

I’d forgotten that Hasegawa did an early GR.1. I think the FROG one was ‘inspired’ by it.

It's the same plastic, no "inspiration" involved.

 

As I've been struggling with the Matchbox FRS.1 lately, I'd say overall it's just not worth it (nor any of the MB Harrier kits).  The shapes are just bad all around, starting with the fuselage, which is way too chubby.  In addition, most of the specific important details are omitted (e.g., airbrake) or badly done (e.g., exhausts).  Not unusually for it's time, the cockpit interior is a combination of no detail with a fantasy seat for the pilot.  On top of all of that the kits are not well designed, e.g., the wings will break off with minimal effort.  All a pity, really, as the decals are actually rather nice for the time, especially the first release of the FRS.1 with not-found-anywhere-else Indian Navy markings.

 

While the more recent Airfix GR.1 kit is an improvement in almost all respects, the original Airfix GR.1 kit (and the follow-on GR.3) is actually not a terrible kit at all, just pretty simplified compared to more modern interpretations.  A lot can be done with it with just typical effort for an older kit like this, and the GR.3 is dirt-cheap and readily available on the 2nd-hand market.

 

I think it was mentioned above but something that is true for very nearly every single kit, past and present, is that after-market resin intakes and exhausts are virtually a must-have.  Otherwise you have to deal with drop-down intake flaps not being properly depicted, and horrible seams on the exhausts that are very difficult to tidy up.

 

[Timmy]

I've seen reference to it so I'll elaborate but the Hasegawa FRS1 isn't very good - the forward fuselage is poorly proportioned and looks squashed.

 

Also I recall that the classic Airfix Kestrel is going to be reissued this year and may be interesting contrast to the production machines.   The kit moulds are probably at least 50 years old and is pretty basic and would require substantial scratch building to bring it up to the standards of the Esci first generation Harrier models.  But at least there is a kit.

[Stratto]

The only intakes and exhausts I can find are Aires are they any good?

[WillDeeks]

23 hours ago, Timmy said:

Also I recall that the classic Airfix Kestrel is going to be reissued this year and may be interesting contrast to the production machines.   The kit moulds are probably at least 50 years old and is pretty basic and would require substantial scratch building to bring it up to the standards of the Esci first generation Harrier models.  But at least there is a kit.

The P.1127 (not a Kestrel) is not radically different from the original Airfix GR.1 kit -- i.e., incredibly basic, needs some effort to add details, but the shapes are sound and can be made into a satisfying replica.

 

Note of course that virtually no two P.1127s were alike and they were constantly being revised during testing, so you have to decide which one you want to build.  The kit gives you a couple of options but there's plenty more that could be done, but mostly you will need to do some quantity of scratch-building (and decal-sourcing)!

 

Extra effort would be required to make a Kestrel.  I've not yet made up my mind if it's easier to start with a P.1127 and upgrade, or a GR.1 and downgrade.

 

[RichG]

On 3/18/2024 at 5:17 AM, Timmy said:

The kit moulds are probably at least 50 years old and is pretty basic

The Hawker P.1127 was first released in 1963, so over 60 years old now. I remember spending my pocket money buying this as a young lad in the sixties. I thought it was fantastic back then - even covered with gluey fingerprints! Something about the box (bag?) art on this kit, and the later Harrier GR.1, that always shouted "build me" 🙂

 

 

   

Edited March 24 by RichG

[RAGATIGER]

On 3/17/2024 at 11:17 PM, Timmy said:

I've seen reference to it so I'll elaborate but the Hasegawa FRS1 isn't very good - the forward fuselage is poorly proportioned and looks squashed.

 

Also I recall that the classic Airfix Kestrel is going to be reissued this year and may be interesting contrast to the production machines.   The kit moulds are probably at least 50 years old and is pretty basic and would require substantial scratch building to bring it up to the standards of the Esci first generation Harrier models.  But at least there is a kit.

Hi there 

 

Actually the Hasegawa Sea Harrier FRS.1 its easy to fix, you need to cut the radome from the radar cover then assembly as well the rest and then look for the small round circle on the sprue the one that says made in Japan and use it as a gap fixer to be in between the nose and the radar cover Naturally use the filler or putty of your preference

 

Regards

 

Armando

 

 

[Stratto]

I will look at that fix thanks RAGATIGER

[tempestfan]

On 3/18/2024 at 2:05 AM, WillDeeks said:

It's the same plastic, no "inspiration" involved.

 

Yes and no - early boxes have Hase plastic in them, later boxes contain essentially a carbon copy of the Hase kit from Frog's own mould. They copied the Harrier, F-4K/M and Lightning when their deal with Hase ended.

On 3/19/2024 at 6:01 AM, WillDeeks said:

Extra effort would be required to make a Kestrel.  I've not yet made up my mind if it's easier to start with a P.1127 and upgrade, or a GR.1 and downgrade.

 

IIRC the P.1127 is smaller allround (ca. 10%?), while the Kestrel is dimensionally close to the final Harrier. Possibly the original Hase kit would be the best starting point, as it has the unblended exhaust fairings.

[Timmy]

On 3/19/2024 at 3:31 PM, WillDeeks said:

The P.1127 (not a Kestrel) is not radically different from the original Airfix GR.1 kit -- i.e., incredibly basic, needs some effort to add details, but the shapes are sound and can be made into a satisfying replica.

 Apologies for any misonformation. I built the P1127 kit a long time ago and know it's not the same machine as a Kestrel.  

The result of a quick browse and post whilst on my break! 

Edited March 25 by Timmy

[RAGATIGER]

On 3/24/2024 at 12:38 PM, Stratto said:

I will look at that fix thanks RAGATIGER

Just remember to mentioned here actually Italeri did a TAV-8B that is very good (even if you take cockpits from Hasegawas AV-8B) its certanily a nice addition on the collection

 

the last addition on the Harrier collection is the Rolls Royce Pegasus that suposedely is inside this kit

 

 

 

 

 

[tempestfan]

8 hours ago, RAGATIGER said:

the last addition on the Harrier collection is the Rolls Royce Pegasus that suposedely is inside this kit

 

 

 

 

 

A dog if there ever was one...

[RAGATIGER]

17 hours ago, tempestfan said:

A dog if there ever was one...

Hi Tempestfan

 

Let me tell you a secret I can cast resin parts the front part is very doable and the jet scapes or trusters can be replaced with some kits or resin parts (PAVLA used to have someof them) from other kits of the family build up then the only the general shape is what I want!!!! the thing that kit is behave very elusive from my hands

 

Regards

 

Armando

 

[Hook]

On 3/28/2024 at 8:57 AM, tempestfan said:

A dog if there ever was one...

Then again, it's Tamigawa compared to this abomination. 

 

Cheers,

 

Andre

 

[tempestfan]

1 hour ago, Hook said:

Then again, it's Tamigawa compared to this abomination. 

 

Cheers,

 

Andre

 

LOL - indeed, what can possibly go wrong when sticking LERX wings to a preseries fuselage... Not sure if the base kit is the Lindberg mould or a copy of it. I admit I have a soft spot for Eastern European 80s and 90s kits, but you have to draw a line somewhere. I steered clear of those AeroPlast creatures in the 90s without looking into one; call it Basic Instinct. About par with the Starfix Spitfire 21 [but I have two of those].

[tempestfan]

On 3/29/2024 at 2:02 AM, RAGATIGER said:

Hi Tempestfan

 

Let me tell you a secret I can cast resin parts the front part is very doable and the jet scapes or trusters can be replaced with some kits or resin parts (PAVLA used to have someof them) from other kits of the family build up then the only the general shape is what I want!!!! the thing that kit is behave very elusive from my hands

 

Regards

 

Armando

 

I am for for taking a challenge, but one of the Frog boxings of the Hase or a Frogspawn copy would be a better starting point. The Lindberg was also boxed by Revell in the early/mid 80s, when half their catalogue consisted of Lindy kits (but mostly the crappy ones). May not actually be easier to find, though.