RF-4 colours at USAF Alconbury 1975.

[DouglasDakota]

Dear colleagues,

I am a fairly new returnee to modelling, trying to recreate some significant aircraft encounters from my past. In 1975 I went on an ATC camp to visit USAF Alconbury where we got up close to some RF-4 aircraft, and I'd like to try a 1/72 example.

Can anyone help with;

(a) unit details (other research suggests that the 10th TRW was likely the one we visited),

(b) any appropriate colour scheme (I can only recall being amazed at the volume of stencilling all over, possibly a pale grey base colour) and

(c) as USAF aircraft, would these have been RF-4C or something else?

Many thanks.

[Jens]

That would have been an RF-4C from the 10 TRW.

The colour scheme would be the South East Asia (SEA) scheme consisting of FS34079, FS34102, FS30219 and FS36622.

 

It most likely looked something like this:

 

https://www.airhistory.net/photo/194405/64-1081

 

HTH,

 

Jens

[XV571]

Following on from Jens' reply, Caracal Models are releasing a 1/72 RF-4C sheet very soon. There will be two Alconbury Phantoms on there from the 1970s, one of which is this one:

 

 

This was taken in 1977 but I have a photo saved which is dated 1975 of 65-0927 with the 'AR' code and the red fin stripe that you could use from the earlier jet. The other good news is that it doesn't have the myriad of white stencils that you remember!

 

If you want to do this jet you'll be able to get it from Hannants https://www.hannants.co.uk/product/CD72151?result-token=qcfnR I recommend you put a sheet on backorder as they can sell out quickly. Hasegawa are also re-releasing their RF-4E in German Air Force markings; this is an easy conversion to the RF-4C, you can use the 'short can' exhausts 'Q7' that are marked not for use instead of the stated long 'Q27' ones. You'll need to find some straight edged inner pylons (Reskit have just released a fabulous set (https://www.hannants.co.uk/product/RS72-0447?result-token=CluXR) or, if you prefer, just leave them off - RF-4s were often seen without them installed.

 

HTH,

 

Jonathan

[DouglasDakota]

Many thanks to both of you - I can foresee the stash growing...!

[RidgeRunner]

20 hours ago, XV571 said:

The other good news is that it doesn't have the myriad of white stencils that you remember!

If you find one that you like that had white stencilling there is a Superscale decal sheet for the F-4 that has them. I cant recall the sheet number but can search through my files if needed  

[iainpeden]

@DouglasDakota remarks that the stencils were over a possibly light gray background: I would have thought the gull gray/white scheme had gone by 1975 - that finished with a question mark!

 

The stencilling on the SEA scheme was black on the tan and white on the two greens (usually!).

[Hook]

The Caracal sheet looks nice! Should you be unable to get one, you might try and find Xtradecal X72-072.

 

Just doublecheck if it's in register...

 

Cheers,

 

Andre

Edited January 21 by Hook

[DouglasDakota]

10 hours ago, iainpeden said:

@DouglasDakota remarks that the stencils were over a possibly light gray background: I would have thought the gull gray/white scheme had gone by 1975 - that finished with a question mark!

 

The stencilling on the SEA scheme was black on the tan and white on the two greens (usually!).

I've since discovered that Hobby Master do an RF-4 in the grey/white which is marketed as an Alconbury machine, but without specifying a date. I have no experience of how well-researched HM's products are, but do you think it is possible that this colour scheme could have still been used on UK-based machines after it had been replaced elsewhere?

See http://hobbymaster.com.hk/airpower_72_ha1954.shtml# for details.

[Creepy Pete]

Of course the underside, pylons etc would be painted light grey in those days, with black, red and yellow stencils on it. 

[Mycapt65]

IMO F-4 stencils regardless of color are always printed overscale. I believe they're not really noticeable at scale viewing distances. IMO. It's more a red badge of courage plastering 900 stencils on a F-4 than an actual realistic effect.

I'm always the underdog in topics like these but honestly how many stencils can you make out on a F-4 at 200ft?

Edited January 22 by Mycapt65

[Chuck1945]

Just a 50+ year old memory. I was at Aviano 1969-72, our own 40Tac Gp aircraft were a C-54 and a U-6. Normally the UK based fighter wings would deploy aircraft for a few weeks at a time to pull alert duties and train with the Maniago range available. My recollection is that when F-4C/D aircraft were deployed, even standing rather close, only the ejection triangles and red warning stripes were readily visible. I don’t really know the timeline, but by the time I got Aviano many F-4s had pulled out of USAFE for use in SEA and F-100Ds (again with very few obvious stencils) were back in USAFE use. Later, as SEA got more E model Phantoms, the C/D models made it back to USAFE

[plastiksurgeon]

USAFE Phantoms during the 1970s were, generally speaking, less stencil festooned than their stateside and pacific based counterparts. 

Panel numbers, to the extent they were present at all, were generally all black, verses the alternating black and white treatment.

 

circa 1975

Edited January 22 by plastiksurgeon

[plastiksurgeon]

Of course, there were always exceptions!

circa 1974

Edited January 22 by plastiksurgeon

[e8n2]

8 hours ago, DouglasDakota said:

I've since discovered that Hobby Master do an RF-4 in the grey/white which is marketed as an Alconbury machine, but without specifying a date. I have no experience of how well-researched HM's products are, but do you think it is possible that this colour scheme could have still been used on UK-based machines after it had been replaced elsewhere?

See http://hobbymaster.com.hk/airpower_72_ha1954.shtml# for details.

Short answer, no.  By the 70s everything tactical was in the SEA scheme.  Even in Vietnam everything was camouflaged by the late 60s.  Note that in 1/72 scale, 36622 is noticeably darker than it was on the real thing.  It's called the scale effect.  The only way you could tell that the undersides were not white was by comparing the white in the national insignia to the underside color.  Lighten it up a bit with some white.  Also check photos of the actual aircraft and compare the color of the undersides to the white in the national insignia.  FYI, even the bases used by the USAF in the UK were known as RAF and whatever the base name was.  There was no USAF preceding the base name.  As an example, I was stationed at RAF Woodbridge, part of the 81st TFW from March `75 to March `77.  All of the stateside bases go by the base name and the Air Force Base unless it is a small installation then it would be an Air Force Station.  After I left the UK I went to Offutt Air Force Base (AFB) in Nebraska.  Later in my career I was at Keno Air Force Station (AFS) in Oregon, atop beautiful Mt. Hamaker, about 30 miles north of the California/Oregon border.  The Navy and Marines will put NAS or MCAS (Naval Air Station, Marine Corps Air Station) in front of the names of their bases.

Later,

Dave

[DouglasDakota]

2 hours ago, e8n2 said:

Short answer, no.  By the 70s everything tactical was in the SEA scheme.  Even in Vietnam everything was camouflaged by the late 60s

Thank you, Dave. Sounds like an interesting career. I was only a 16-year old cadet when we visited Alconbury, and just blown away by how huge the Phantom was, once you got up close. I'm in the process of building up a collection of aircraft which have some significance to me, including the one my Dad serviced during his RAF days, my first civil flight, first solo, etc.  Although I have no details about the specific aircraft which the USAF showed us, the Phantom deserves a place based on impact factor.

[e8n2]

I did 24 years, not every part enjoyable, but that is life.  Got to fly on a KC-135 doing a night refuel of an E-3A over the oilfields in Saudi Arabia.  Also did a flight on a refuel from the receiver end on a C-5B.  Keno AFS was nice but it was just a radar site and the main base was at Kingsley Field in Klamath Falls, Oregon.  Was only there four months when the site was turned over to the Federal Aviation Administration.  It was also the first place I saw a modem running at around 128 baud, not Kb, baud!  Had never heard of such a thing until then.

Later,

Dave

[DouglasDakota]

On 23/01/2024 at 06:26, e8n2 said:

Got to fly on a KC-135 doing a night refuel of an E-3A over the oilfields in Saudi Arabia.

Must have been very skilled fliers - lots of rising hot air around! My favourite cadet memory is my last camp, on Malta. Managed an 8-hour maritime patrol in a Nimrod, intercepting a small Soviet task force entering the eastern Med - Kirov class cruiser and escorts. Compared to modern surveillance the Nimrod was next-generation tech; us cadets only got 'hands-on' with the microwave oven, preparing crew meals!

[e8n2]

It was the middle of summer, Ramadan was underway and it seemed to take FOREVER for the aircraft to get airborne.  Normally I am a nervous Nellie when it comes to flying (all psycological of course). but it seemed to be a smooth flight from what I can remember now.  Of course it was over 40 years ago now that this happened.  When I was on the receiving end of refueling on the C-5, it was rather bumpy because of the KC-135 exhaust going around the T-tail of the C-5.  I was so happy when we got off of the tanker to RTB.

Later,

Dave