Canberra PR.9 Falklands War, ‘Operation Folklore’ - is this a plausible scheme?

[petetasker]

I regret I haven’t got anything at all to add to this thread other than a massive thank you to all those contributing. Absolutely fascinating. Until Roland Whites book was published I’d never really known anything about 39’s role in Corporate. Thanks again to everyone and keep the info coming.

[neilfergylee]

My only contribution this this: and it's a classic "I got it from a bloke who knows a bloke" is tha when I worked for a certain British defence contractor in the 1990s, one of our Military Business chaps told me he had been flying Canberras in Chile during the Falklands conflict.

 

Thats all I have and it's been a long time since I was told that.

 

Neil

[raptormodeller]

Posting (extremely) late. But I've done a bit of research on the topic and it would seem that Canberras WERE painted in Chilean colours and made it as far as Belize with the goal of cover photo reconnaissance over the Falklands during the war. But a combination of factors put an end to the operation before it even got underway. Likely the cancellation of the Nimrod R1 ACME missions being the major item at play, or the ditching of the Sea King helicopter in Chile. And a number of PR9's were sold rather rapidly to Chile on the quiet after the war.

 

I found a document on the national archives website that pertains to these missions that in my opinion contains the definitive answer but it has yet to be digitised and you either had to come in person or pay (probably both) to see it. 

[RAGATIGER]

On 6/21/2021 at 4:56 PM, Rabbit Leader said:

 mention of the fuselage Chilean Air Force titles being misspelt too? 

Cheers.. Dave 

That is a very nice story, it was said that suposed to be read as Fuerza Aerea de Chile it was actually written as Fuerza Area de Chile; that was very evident if you read Spanish

 

Regards

 

Armando

 

PD I was on at least 2 diferent C-130H  coming from Pascua Island (Easter Island) and the serials were duplicated with those used by FACh confirmed by aviation fan spotters

Edited November 17, 2022 by RAGATIGER

[RAGATIGER]

On 11/16/2022 at 9:58 AM, raptormodeller said:

Posting (extremely) late. But I've done a bit of research on the topic and it would seem that Canberras WERE painted in Chilean colours and made it as far as Belize with the goal of cover photo reconnaissance over the Falklands during the war. But a combination of factors put an end to the operation before it even got underway. Likely the cancellation of the Nimrod R1 ACME missions being the major item at play, or the ditching of the Sea King helicopter in Chile. And a number of PR9's were sold rather rapidly to Chile on the quiet after the war.

 

I found a document on the national archives website that pertains to these missions that in my opinion contains the definitive answer but it has yet to be digitised and you either had to come in person or pay (probably both) to see it. 

There were  3 Canberras PR-9 delivered to FACh one lost in a crash the 2 remaing still at local Air Museum in Santiago

Edited November 17, 2022 by RAGATIGER

[Selwyn]

On 11/17/2022 at 2:53 AM, RAGATIGER said:

There were  3 Canberras PR-9 delivered to FACh one lost in a crash the 2 remaing still at local Air Museum in Santiago

Yes these were delivered post war, but the question is about Possible operation of RAF operated canberras from Chile  during the war.

 

Selwyn

[awacsfach]

Hello, here I leave you the complete story of the Folklore about the Canberra PR9 over Chile, Enjoy!

Greetings from Chile

 

https://drive.proton.me/urls/5DSRR5C45G#srP7zJkL0Q6c

 

[TheyJammedKenny!]

I think it's folklore.  My guess is Chile furnished the UK more straightforward intelligence using means already at its disposal and without additional investment.  After all, Chile has no dearth of Spanish speakers (hint, hint), and would have been able to provide almost up-to-the-minute updates of changes to Argentina's orders of battle.

[Graham Boak]

For some reason my posting has gone hidden, and I can't bring it back.  I recall a comment (from Jon Snow?) that he'd seen Canberras in Chile before the action but as he knew there were lots in South America 

 

[Graham Boak]

For some reason my posting has gone hidden, and I can't bring it back.  I recall a comment (from Jon Snow?) that he'd seen Canberras in Chile before the action but as he knew there were lots in South America he didn't think it worthy of mention at the time.  Other motives can be suspected.

 

But just where did the photo of Stanley Airport after the first raid come from?

 

[Jure Miljevic]

Hello

I remember that photo, which was reproduced in an article in one of the magazines around here (Obramba, I think, but I am not certain). The caption said nor could Harrier carried cameras produce such a high quality image, neither would the plane's photo run be steady enough for that. It was suggested the phote had been taken by Canberra, flying from Chile, although PR Victor could also had been used. Cheers

Jure

[Graham Boak]

PR Victor could have done it, had any still existed, but would have needed considerable refuelling support.  Ditto some variant of Nimrod, but in both cases why not brag about it (as with the Black Buck missions?.

[canberra kid]

I was told by someone who knows that they most definatly did, and by someone who knows that they never did, which leads me to believe that they bid or perhaps didn't 🤔 

John

[Jure Miljevic]

Hello,

I thought Victors flew proper PR missions during Corporate, but apparently last PR Victor squadron had been disbanded years earlier. However, some of the tankers had been converted for MRR role by installing a camera in the nose to take photos of the surface and another one to take pictures of the radar screen. According to Steve Hazell's Warpaint series book, one of the converted Victors flew a maritime reconnaissance mission as far as South Georgia waters with four K.2 tankers supporting her. Cheers

Jure

[Antti_K]

Hello all,

 

as Jure Miljevic says, No. 543 Squadron disbanded on 24.5.1974 leaving the RAF without strategic photo intelligence capability. Also the Maritime Radar Reconnaissance unit -No.27 Squadron- disbanded roughly a month before the Falklands War. The radar reconnaissance flight (or flights) were carried out using Victor's H2S radar.

 

A "one of a kind" camera installation was created for Victor XL192 by technicians from RAF Wyton. The installation consisted a number of Vinten F95 cameras (two or three) looking through the Port side windows of the bomb aimer's compartment. Only oblique photos could be taken and the idea was first to locate any possible Argentinian ships using the H2S radar and then descend to low altitude to take pictures of it. To aim the photos S/L Bob Tuxford drew horizontal lines on the Victor's cockpit side windows using a China graph marker. Simple yet effective.

 

Roland White states in his book "Vulcan 607" that the first BDA photo of Stanley Airport was taken by an RN Sea Harrier. That would have meant something like Vinten 135 camera mounted in a Vicon pod. The light levels were low at Stanley as it was Autumn with Sun elevation angle of 22,8 to 24,1 degrees at midday. In fast jet operations the images are normally underexposed by one f/stop and then pressed for one f/stop during the processing to get "luminous" shadow areas that reveal details of the target. The photos of Stanley Airport published in books look like pressing was used during the processing. The exposure time used in fast jet operations are so fast that perfect images can be obtained. So for technical reasons this wouldn't have called a Canberra with its more capable cameras.

 

Cheers,

Antti