marty_hopkirk Posted July 25, 2009 Share Posted July 25, 2009 (edited) Why oh why are they spending X amount of money paying a company in China to build a replica that has to be shipped/airfrieghted over to NZ to make a film and then CG all the back ground in afterwards, this must be costing millions!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!Is our industry and economics so bad over here that we can not knock together a replica Lanc ( there is one down the road to use as a guide) and have the filming done at Scampton, a little CG will have the airbase looking every inch as good as during the war, and then they could also have the added bonus of a REAL flying lanc to do some low level footage over the genuine Lincolnshire countryside. Regards, JB. Rest assured what ever the logistics involved the production team will be carrying it out in the most cost effective manner. Furthermore New Zealand has a relatively simple, low-cost tax system compared to other countries. Also The New Zealand government has specific incentives available for the film industry. Particularly, large budget screen production grants are exempt from income tax, I suspect that may have a bearing on matters. Even the producers of the 1955 movie could see that Scampton had changed out of all recognition and was not representative of a WW2 bomber base. Hence the majority of location filming for that film was carried out up the road at Hemswell and down the road at Spittlegate. I have not read or seen anywhere that some location filming will not be carried out in the UK. Marty... Edited July 25, 2009 by marty_hopkirk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gajman Posted July 25, 2009 Share Posted July 25, 2009 (edited) <offensive conent removed <response to offensive content removed> Edited July 25, 2009 by Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Posted July 25, 2009 Share Posted July 25, 2009 I'll be speaking to T64 and Gajman in private. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrahamS Posted July 25, 2009 Share Posted July 25, 2009 There is NOT a mid-upper turret on this mock up.There is shot from the rear on the Youtube video and what can CLEARLY be seen is the circular panel line where the turret WOULD have been. Agree I wonder if what people can see is the left tail that gives the impression of a turret?? Graham Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pigsty Posted July 26, 2009 Share Posted July 26, 2009 Even the producers of the 1955 movie could see that Scampton had changed out of all recognition and was not representative of a WW2 bomber base. Hence the majority of location filming for that film was carried out up the road at Hemswell and down the road at Spittlegate. I have not read or seen anywhere that some location filming will not be carried out in the UK. Yes, remember Memphis Belle? - filmed at Binbrook with a rather obvious tarmac runway long enough for Lightnings to use ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dylan the rabbit Posted July 26, 2009 Share Posted July 26, 2009 It's a Peter Jackson film, and the man's a stickler for detail, so of course he'll try to recreate it as accurately as possible. As for the dog's name, anyone that expects it to still be called nigger and can't understand why it's offensive nowadays, really needs to take a look at the difference between political correctness and what is just plain racist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tornado64 Posted July 26, 2009 Share Posted July 26, 2009 It's a Peter Jackson film, and the man's a stickler for detail, so of course he'll try to recreate it as accurately as possible.As for the dog's name, anyone that expects it to still be called nigger and can't understand why it's offensive nowadays, really needs to take a look at the difference between political correctness and what is just plain racist. the reason i get offended is it is history , and history should be taught factual not to suit individuals , or we may just as well teach them ww2 ran from 1937-1960 , the battle of hastings was in 1056 , slavery and the hollocaust of course would not have happened lest it offends kids are going to watch this film , few will bother reading up on the genuine thing . so they will go away with yet another important part of history learnt wrongly , while were at it why not change guy gibsons name to herbert smith so we can fully disconnect from our countries heroes and history lest we forget the man was fighting a regime that had one of the biggest racial kulls in history !!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dylan the rabbit Posted July 26, 2009 Share Posted July 26, 2009 Tornado, teaching factual history, and trying to ensure this is replicated as accurately as possible through film and the written/spoken word is vitally important. As is the avoidance of re-writing historical fact to suit a political agenda at the time. Calling the dog a different name to avoid offending anyone African American/European (for whom the word nigger really is unpleasant) who watches the film is just common sense, and hardly a shocking re-write of history. Personally, and to get this back on track, I can't wait for the film to air, and given Jackson's personal involvement in producing the Wingnut kits, I'm sure the film will not shy from being an accurate telling of the raid to honour the boys who flew on it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Honeybee Posted July 26, 2009 Share Posted July 26, 2009 Hi Calling the dog a different name to avoid offending anyone African American/European (for whom the word nigger really is unpleasant You should hang around in Jails or with the yoof of today as from what I can tell Black people (not all of them) seem to call each other this name all the time so I doubt the word offends, just who is saying it and in what context it said and how they perceive it, Regards Paul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tornado64 Posted July 26, 2009 Share Posted July 26, 2009 (edited) HiCalling the dog a different name to avoid offending anyone African American/European (for whom the word nigger really is unpleasant You should hang around in Jails or with the yoof of today as from what I can tell Black people (not all of them) seem to call each other this name all the time so I doubt the word offends, just who is saying it and in what context it said and how they perceive it, Regards Paul spot on my friend , and if all the people who are groseley offended by it , ( mostly middle class white council workers with little else to justify their highly over paid easy life jobs ) did actualy mix in with black folks they would realise the true use of the word in black circles it is used to describe the undesirable element of the black community , and as such is used in rap songs ( widely i may add ) by black artists i will also add that my sisters boyfriend ( who's from nigeria ! ) laughs hystericaly at the scene in blazing sadles , we all know the one " the sherrifs a nigger !!" he loves the film , the point is it has a go at everyone and not one inparticular the sooner we can get back to using our own judgement and brains for ourselves rather than being told what to think by , councils , governments and the media the sooner we would be living a more harmonious life with each other the fact is i hate the word used as offence and in racism , but it is also a word that in the past was used without racist intent the thing to remember if you have your own common sense ( wich is sadly lacking in some today ) is being able to divide racism from unintended use of words and what may be worth mentioning at this point is i have trained in racial equality for a previos job and was observed by a psychiatrist whilst on it and what is worth mentioning is we also descussed the word paki ( another that causes offence )and rightly so but we had one lad that found it so offensive even discussing it he walked out , the instant remark from the psychiatrist was " too sensitive , fail , if he's like that in here with friends discussing a word , what's he going to be like with someone who takes a dislike to him when hes in uniform on the streets !" and i have to confess that he was spot on as another two a pakistani and an indian that stayed to discus it were my best friends on that job the trouble is we have had nothing realy major in our modern lives to wory about and a lot of things are over hyped to make something to fuss about everything in modern life has to be done to excess , we are no longer happy if a model is a fair representation it has to have everything , we are not happy with a simple photo it has to be taken on an top of the range camera and so it goes on into everything the use of words is just another area it has spilt into although looking at our standards of education in ten years time 50 % of school leavers wont be able to spell it anyway .. Edited July 26, 2009 by tornado64 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dylan the rabbit Posted July 26, 2009 Share Posted July 26, 2009 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marty_hopkirk Posted July 26, 2009 Share Posted July 26, 2009 kids are going to watch this film , few will bother reading up on the genuine thing . so they will go away with yet another important part of history learnt wrongly . Crikey, thats a sweeping statement and underestimation of todays youth of independant thinking, if there ever was... Getting back on topic. I believe it is Jackson production company producing this movie - I'm not sure if he has any day-to-day involvement in it. Marty... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tornado64 Posted July 26, 2009 Share Posted July 26, 2009 Crikey, thats a sweeping statement and underestimation of todays youth of independant thinking, if there ever was...Marty... maybe so ! but in a few generations we will have lost all from ww2 as we have lost the last from ww1 it is getting to a point where all things learned will be from the internet and from films ( the biggest percentage of todays youth have very little intrest in books ) most learn from difrent media than we did fact and if it is altered in those medias they are going to learn incorrectly , i have worked in schools and the biggest percentage ( not all granted ) but a large percentage are educated awful to begin with .. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kes Posted July 26, 2009 Share Posted July 26, 2009 (edited) . . . are educated awful to begin with .. Shouldn't that be . . . are educated awfuly to begin with?? Ha! sorry, just couldn't resist it, no offence, just kidding sorry So when can we expect this movie to hit the cinema's? anyone know? . . . Kes Edited July 26, 2009 by Kes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danny Posted July 26, 2009 Author Share Posted July 26, 2009 (edited) With regards to what Nigger should or shouldn't be called in the film wouldn't it be better discussed in this thread? As far as locations are concerned, I'm surprised that the producers couldn't find somewhere in the UK to film it I accept the argument that Scampton might not be ideal but on the other hand airfields like Scampton aren't exactly unique are they? I'm not getting at the layout of camps, but at the buildings. With film dressing East Kirkby's control tower could double as Scamptons? As far as hangars go take your pick! Some camps like Benson have added buildings to their hangars but there are places like Bicester that could be dressed up surely? And I've been thinking about those mock-ups If understand correctly, we now have replica FW190's and even ME262's flying so what are the chances of those Lanc mock ups being airworthy? Danny Edited July 26, 2009 by Danny Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marty_hopkirk Posted July 26, 2009 Share Posted July 26, 2009 (edited) As far as locations are concerned, I'm surprised that the producers couldn't find somewhere in the UK to film it I accept the argument that Scampton might not be ideal but on the other hand airfields like Scampton aren't exactly unique are they? Danny Cost, pure and simple. Whilst the UK Government offers extremely good tax breaks to the film industry, they are just not as good as can be obtained elsewhere now. In addition the NZ film industry has developed an exceptional expertise in CGI. Incidently, the MoD website, advertises Barkston Heath as good filming opportunity as a base that has changed little and would make a good WW2 base for those film makers wanting such a location - although it obviously does not have the "Lincoln Edge" at the end of the runway. Furthermore, as mentioned previously I have not seen it mentioned that some of the filming will not be carried out in the UK. Quite honestly if the prdoducers make a good flim it does not matter. Marty... Edited July 26, 2009 by marty_hopkirk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mal Posted July 26, 2009 Share Posted July 26, 2009 Does it really matter about the name of the dog or if the Lancasters having dorsal turrets surely the telling of the story and the portrayal of the heroics and the technical achievements is what matters. If the accuracy is to be taken to the extreme will the actor who portrays Gibson be of the correct height, have the correct colour eyes you can go on forever this is rivet counting applied to a film. I applaud Jackson for the trying to make the film accurate but for 99.9% of the audience he could use Hercules in place of the Lancasters and thy would not know,why should they?there are not plane spotters. By the way I hold my hands up I wouldn't be able to recognise Scampton from any other WWII airfield, but I doubt if that effects my understanding of the raid. Children today have no less a grasp of history than earlier generations,they are taught to analysis events instead of accepting them as facts. In my opinion it gives a child a balanced view of history instead of a one sided fact based view as was taught in my school days. I've some experience of today's teenagers having four children two who are in secondary school and two who just have left,perhaps more experiance than the people who cull there information from the Daily Mail.(Prehaps they need to be taught that you should always question your source material, thankfully children today are taught this during there history lessons) . Sad as it may be the Dam-busters raid in a few hundred years time will be lost to history, all of us will (unless you happen to be Charles Darwin, Isaac Newton etc.) a film however accurate is not going to preserve there memory. Malcolm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gajman Posted July 26, 2009 Share Posted July 26, 2009 Does it really matter about the name of the dog or if the Lancasters having dorsal turrets surely the telling of the story and the portrayal of the heroics and the technical achievements is what matters. If the accuracy is to be taken to the extreme will the actor who portrays Gibson be of the correct height, have the correct colour eyes you can go on forever this is rivet counting applied to a film. I applaud Jackson for the trying to make the film accurate but for 99.9% of the audience he could use Hercules in place of the Lancasters and thy would not know,why should they?there are not plane spotters. By the way I hold my hands up I wouldn't be able to recognise Scampton from any other WWII airfield, but I doubt if that effects my understanding of the raid. Malcolm If you ever run for president you have my vote Well said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike H Posted July 27, 2009 Share Posted July 27, 2009 (edited) With respect to all, If Peter Jackson has the facts as regards the Dam Busters raid then he should stick to them. Guy Gibson's dog may not have a PC name at this moment in time but, like it or not, 'Nigger' was his name. If we screw around with history, even little bits of it, then some of these untruths will stick & be passed down the line as facts until no-one knows what the truth is anymore. The men of 617 Squadron deserve the truth & if the likes of them, and the Americans who captured the Enigma codes from that U-Boat, hadn't done their duty, then we might all be living under a different flag. Mike Edited July 27, 2009 by Mike H Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marty_hopkirk Posted July 27, 2009 Share Posted July 27, 2009 Does it really matter about the name of the dog or if the Lancasters having dorsal turrets surely the telling of the story and the portrayal of the heroics and the technical achievements is what matters. Malcolm Absolutely Marty... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Honeybee Posted July 27, 2009 Share Posted July 27, 2009 Hi and the Americans who captured the Enigma codes from that U-Boat, Would these be the Americans who captured U505 and didn't have a film made about them or the ones in the crappy film that was made up. The Americans missed the boat here as the true story of U505 is so much better than the film, Regards Paul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel Posted July 27, 2009 Share Posted July 27, 2009 (edited) Sadly, as others as said, the UK is high tax for (amongst other things) film making. Also, if you have to recreate something, it is often easier to start from scratch than attempt to fix something (a new model from the box, or strip down an old one and rebuild it?). The film will kindle interest in the raid, and hopefully Airfix/Revell will bring something out to cater for the new people wandering into the model shop for the first time. Dan Edited July 27, 2009 by Daniel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mal Posted July 27, 2009 Share Posted July 27, 2009 The representation of the skill and heroism that was exhibited by the aircrews on the night of the raid will be of far greater importance for the understanding of what 617's aircrew went through than the name of a dog. By getting bogged down in such details (by the way are they using a left or right handed actor to play Guy Gibson we've got to make sure they get it correct ) attention is being taken away from bravery and sacrifices of the aircrews this is what the audience require to take away the film. Any person put off from seeing the film because of purile arguments may not be aware of the raid,won't that have a diminishing effect on the memory of the crews? Malcolm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gajman Posted July 27, 2009 Share Posted July 27, 2009 (edited) Hiand the Americans who captured the Enigma codes from that U-Boat, Would these be the Americans who captured U505 and didn't have a film made about them or the ones in the crappy film that was made up. The Americans missed the boat here as the true story of U505 is so much better than the film, Regards Paul What is the real story of U505? Everything I've read about it reckons that the u-boat was captured by a number of US Navy ships (the USS Guadalcanal being one of them). Edited July 27, 2009 by Gajman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tornado64 Posted July 27, 2009 Share Posted July 27, 2009 The representation of the skill and heroism that was exhibited by the aircrews on the night of the raid will be of far greater importance for the understanding of what 617's aircrew went through than the name of a dog. By getting bogged down in such details (by the way are they using a left or right handed actor to play Guy Gibson we've got to make sure they get it correct ) attention is being taken away from bravery and sacrifices of the aircrews this is what the audience require to take away the film. Any person put off from seeing the film because of purile arguments may not be aware of the raid,won't that have a diminishing effect on the memory of the crews? Malcolm well actualy since it is braught up a lot of the mission is around the dog codename and the fact it was run over it is a percentage of the mission so on these theorys in a few years time we will have codenames changed to overperson because it offends feminists , ridiculous !! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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