Temperature controlled Decal Bath

[nick]

@Totally Mad Olivier got me started on this measuring the temperature of his decal water. This got me thinking, and I suspect slightly warm decals will conform better than cold ones.

 

I can't prove this, and I may be wrong.

 

If I am - ignore the rest of this post!

 

Anyway, I always make a mess applying decals and dont have a dedicated setup, so I thought what the hell, it should be easy enough to knock up a little temperature controlled bath for the purpose, so 48 hours later here it is.

 

 

If anyone else wants to make one of these, it's at your own risk. I'm going to be careful using mine and not drench it in water, I've been reasonably careful building this and used a water-tight case and earthed the tray, if you're not confident with this stuff, probably dont try it yourself.

 

Here's what I did anyway, make of it what you will.

 

Shopping list:

 

https://amzn.eu/d/g46UJwq]

https://amzn.eu/d/cyd5xVa 
https://amzn.eu/d/4EcVJgg 

https://amzn.eu/d/aENiAUu 

 

You'll need some other bits and pieces that I had lying around, like cable, screws, heat shrink, switch(if you want one) etc

 

and heres the internals

 

 

It's very simple and the little STC-1000 does all the work. It works pretty well, the only issue is that the heater is too fierce and it does overshoot quite a bit when heating up. It would be better with a lower power heater with hindsight.

 

I also used a Euro- socket on the rear face, if I built one again, it would be safer with a fixed trailing lead, passed through a sealed hole in the case.

 

To make it, I just marked and cut the case to suit the components, mounted and sealed the tray in the lid with hot glue -  it doesn't get warm enough to remelt it in use. I then hot glued 2 hardwood blocks on the inside of the lid that I could screw into to mount the heater

 

I cut and drilled a couple of strips from fiberglass PCB board I had knocking around to mount the heater, I also trapped the STC-1000 temp probe under the same clamp.

Finally I earthed the tray by simply aluminium tapping an earth lead to it, you could nip this under the clamp too just to make sure it doesnt come off.

 

For wiring I just used a couple of 3-way lever clamps that I swear by, you can see the circuit just by looking at the wiring, its very simple.

 

That's it. Toasty-warm decals for me from  now on. Thanks @Totally Mad Olivier!

 

Seems to work anyway

 

 

[Graham Boak]

What a lot of fuss to replace a saucer of not too hot water and a convenient kettle!  The high tech answer to a low tech problem.  Harmless enough, I presume.

[nick]

2 minutes ago, Graham Boak said:

What a lot of fuss to replace a saucer of not too hot water and a convenient kettle!  

Unnecessary over-complex technology for the sake of it you mean? moi? surely not? I don't own a kettle, what can you do. 😛

[Totally Mad Olivier]

58 minutes ago, Graham Boak said:

What a lot of fuss to replace a saucer of not too hot water and a convenient kettle!

I have a kettle in my bench but the problem is that when I pour a warm water (let’s say 40°C) in the box lid I use for the decal job, the temperature decreases very quickly, just the time to apply one decal in fact. 
Indeed, the time for me to apply my decal and remove the Clear film on the next one, the temperature in my lid dropped to about 20-23°C, not enough, and I must change the water.

Notice that the kettle, unlike my lid, keeps much better the temperature, but of course, I can’t use the kettle to dip my decal, not convenient.

That’s why, imho, a display that avoids changing the water all the time, with risks of water falling on the decal sheet or on sensitive parts of the bench (my Macbook Pro, fe) is for me something interesting.

Probably not necessary for an occasional modeler, but for me, yes it is.

I admit though that the Nick's construction seems to be quite complex, and I would prefer to buy his display than to build it myself, even if his instructions would be very helpful. 

 

Cheers, Olivier

[Black Knight]

I use a USB powered cup heater. It keeps the water at coffee drinking temperature

[Totally Mad Olivier]

2 minutes ago, Black Knight said:

I use a USB powered cup heater. It keeps the water at coffee drinking temperature

Interesting. Can you show us what your cup heater looks like please?

[Richard E]

6 minutes ago, Totally Mad Olivier said:

Interesting. Can you show us what your cup heater looks like please?

Like @Black Knight I use something like this:

 

[Black Knight]

If you google it hundreds come up

Mine is a flat pad with a USB power lead, others have some temperature control

Mine cost 99p, others cost more, from £3 upwards, are more elaborate

I use a small plastic pot/dish to hold the water

this is like mine:

[Totally Mad Olivier]

Thanks chaps, interesting, I didn't know such cup heaters did exist.

For small decals, it should be fine, and it is of course a much more simple solution, but for decals of a big scale kit, such the Tamiya 1/12 Porsche 934 I am building, I fear the heating surface is a bit small.

I will though try to find one with temperature control, before drawing conclusions.

In the meantime, I go on considering that Nick's heater, including a metal serving dish of about 16,5 cm lenght, 12 cm width useful dimensions, is a must for big/ long decals.

 

Cheers, O

[Totally Mad Olivier]

P.S: I took a look on Amazon.

If some cups heaters have only 2  heating levels, too hot imho (the warmest providing 50°C or more), the one below that also has a warmer level (40°C) could do the job, and it is not expensive, 16,82€.

I'm gonna order it all now and will do trials...

 

 

[Black Knight]

1 hour ago, nick said:

@Totally Mad Olivier got me started on this measuring the temperature of his decal water. This got me thinking, and I suspect slightly warm decals will conform better than cold ones.

 

I can't prove this, and I may be wrong.

 

If I am - ignore the rest of this post!

 

Anyway, I always make a mess applying decals and dont have a dedicated setup, so I thought what the hell, it should be easy enough to knock up a little temperature controlled bath for the purpose, so 48 hours later here it is.

 

 

If anyone else wants to make one of these, it's at your own risk. I'm going to be careful using mine and not drench it in water, I've been reasonably careful building this and used a water-tight case and earthed the tray, if you're not confident with this stuff, probably dont try it yourself.

 

Here's what I did anyway, make of it what you will.

 

Shopping list:

 

https://amzn.eu/d/g46UJwq]

https://amzn.eu/d/cyd5xVa 
https://amzn.eu/d/4EcVJgg 

https://amzn.eu/d/aENiAUu 

 

You'll need some other bits and pieces that I had lying around, like cable, screws, heat shrink, switch(if you want one) etc

 

and heres the internals

 

 

It's very simple and the little STC-1000 does all the work. It works pretty well, the only issue is that the heater is too fierce and it does overshoot quite a bit when heating up. It would be better with a lower power heater with hindsight.

 

I also used a Euro- socket on the rear face, if I built one again, it would be safer with a fixed trailing lead, passed through a sealed hole in the case.

 

To make it, I just marked and cut the case to suit the components, mounted and sealed the tray in the lid with hot glue -  it doesn't get warm enough to remelt it in use. I then hot glued 2 hardwood blocks on the inside of the lid that I could screw into to mount the heater

 

I cut and drilled a couple of strips from fiberglass PCB board I had knocking around to mount the heater, I also trapped the STC-1000 temp probe under the same clamp.

Finally I earthed the tray by simply aluminium tapping an earth lead to it, you could nip this under the clamp too just to make sure it doesnt come off.

 

For wiring I just used a couple of 3-way lever clamps that I swear by, you can see the circuit just by looking at the wiring, its very simple.

 

That's it. Toasty-warm decals for me from  now on. Thanks @Totally Mad Olivier!

 

Seems to work anyway

 

 

This is a well made piece of kit

Its nicely packaged

Have you thought of marketing it?

Or taking it to someone who can?

[-Ian-]

2 hours ago, Totally Mad Olivier said:

I have a kettle in my bench but the problem is that when I pour a warm water (let’s say 40°C) in the box lid I use for the decal job, the temperature decreases very quickly, just the time to apply one decal in fact. 
Indeed, the time for me to apply my decal and remove the Clear film on the next one, the temperature in my lid dropped to about 20-23°C, not enough, and I must change the water.

Notice that the kettle, unlike my lid, keeps much better the temperature, but of course, I can’t use the kettle to dip my decal, not convenient.

That’s why, imho, a display that avoids changing the water all the time, with risks of water falling on the decal sheet or on sensitive parts of the bench (my Macbook Pro, fe) is for me something interesting.

Probably not necessary for an occasional modeler, but for me, yes it is.

I admit though that the Nick's construction seems to be quite complex, and I would prefer to buy his display than to build it myself, even if his instructions would be very helpful. 

 

Cheers, Olivier

That's my experience too. It doesn't matter so much for European made decals which are usually fine with lukewarm water but I've found decals from the Japanese manufacturers work far better in very warm water, ie no lower than 40c, ideally at least 50.

 

As long as the price wasn't ludicrous I'd seriously consider buying something like this if it was commercially available.

Edited September 28, 2024 by -Ian-

[Rob G]

I use one of those scented wax room deodoriser things. Basically the same as the cup heater, but it plugs into the wall and comes with a dish.

[Black Knight]

2 hours ago, Totally Mad Olivier said:

. . .

For small decals, it should be fine, and it is of course a much more simple solution, but for decals of a big scale kit, such the Tamiya 1/12 Porsche 934 I am building, I fear the heating surface is a bit small.

. . .

No matter how big or small the decal I never ever leave it in the water

Its dipped or pulled through the water and then left on my desk top until the glue loosens, thus it matters not how big or small the container of water is

[Totally Mad Olivier]

Interesting to see that following the modellers, methods may vary for the decal job.

All roads lead to Rome, after all…

 

[flyboy2610]

I have a single burner hot plate with a metal pan I use for decals.

https://www.walmart.com/ip/NESCO-SB-01-1500-Watt-Ceramic-Silver-Electric-Burner/36908831

 

I don't think that I would try to cook breakfast on it, but for heating water for decals it works a treat! 👍

[YellowHound]

So I built one!

A couple of changes. I used double sided thermal tape to secure the heating element and other parts to the stainless water bath, and used Araldite to secure the bath to the lid.

IMG_3044 

IMG_3045 

IMG_3046

IMG_3043 

[nick]

58 minutes ago, YellowHound said:

So I built one!

A couple of changes. I used double sided thermal tape to secure the heating element and other parts to the stainless water bath, and used Araldite to secure the bath to the lid

IMG_3045 

Looks great! Although I do feel a bit responsible for starting this craziness off 😎🤓👍 

[flyboy2610]

6 hours ago, nick said:

Looks great! Although I do feel a bit responsible for starting this craziness off 😎🤓👍 

It has been said that imitation is the sincerest form of flattery!

You came up with a good idea! 👍

I remember back when I was in 3rd or 4th grade that my mother took me to get a new pair of shoes. I found a pair of low cut hiking boots that had a semi-opaque pale yellow rubber sole on them. I loved them! Within a month several other boys in my class had the same boots! 😄

[Steve McArthur]

About a year ago I bought a cup warmer and a small metal pet food bowl from Amazon for keeping my decal water warm.

 

[Michael Morris]

Firstly, you look to have produced a nifty piece of kit there, well done. 🙂

However, I have my doubts about how necessary it is.  I just use luke warm water out of the hot tap, it works well enough for me.  

 

Saying that, I have not yet had to apply very large decals over a large irregular surface (Warbird decals of Space Shuttle tiles still sitting in my draw!).  I would be interested to see if precise control of temperature for decals is a significant factor.  If it is, I suspect the degree to which temperature makes a difference may vary between decal manufacturers and decals size.  My guess is that it precise temperature control is not necessary.  However, I always much prefer to go on experimental data than 'gut feeling', so I would be interested to see the results of any controlled experiments on the effect of temperature on decals.

 

[YellowHound]

Used mine for the first time this week and I have to say it works brilliantly.

[Michael Morris]

On 28/09/2024 at 15:13, Rob G said:

I use one of those scented wax room deodoriser things. Basically the same as the cup heater, but it plugs into the wall and comes with a dish.

Link?

[Michael Morris]

On 28/09/2024 at 13:39, Totally Mad Olivier said:

P.S: I took a look on Amazon.

If some cups heaters have only 2  heating levels, too hot imho (the warmest providing 50°C or more), the one below that also has a warmer level (40°C) could do the job, and it is not expensive, 16,82€.

I'm gonna order it all now and will do trials...

 

 

Please let us know how you get on.