Adam Poultney Posted February 28 Share Posted February 28 So I just bought a vintage Airfix Do17E. I've already built one of these and know what I want to do with this one. But bundled with it is an even older Do217E. I had a brief look for aftermarket decals suitable for it, on the assumption that the original vintage decals will not be of much use, but Hannants has nothing. Any ideas? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
malpaso Posted February 28 Share Posted February 28 I’ve found old 70s Airfix decals work fine, although may have yellowed. Same with Frog of same vintage. So worth trying before bothering with AM. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Selwyn Posted February 29 Share Posted February 29 12 hours ago, Adam Poultney said: So I just bought a vintage Airfix Do17E. I've already built one of these and know what I want to do with this one. But bundled with it is an even older Do217E. I had a brief look for aftermarket decals suitable for it, on the assumption that the original vintage decals will not be of much use, but Hannants has nothing. Any ideas? Just finishing off one of these Airfix Dornier 217E kits myself. There are no Dornier 217E decal sets available. One thing I descovered when researching a scheme is that the Dornier 217 aircraft replaced the Dornier 17 in service in KG 2 and KG40, and there are many available Dornier 17Z decals around from the same units. These decals can be adopted quite easily to the 217E as they have the same correct unit codes at the same size as seen on many of the wartime Dornier 217E's. You would obviously need to match the Dornier 17 decals to a known Dornier 217 aircraft. In the same context have also been building at the same time the old Airfix Dornier selecting the 17F recce version. This kit decal sheet was also unusable, and I discovered that fuselage Codes for the Dornier 17F are also generally unobtanium, but I wanted to build the 17F recce aircraft scheme in the Airfix box which looked good. With a bit of research I discovered that the aircraft of the particular recce unit depicted in the Airfix Dornier 17F kit were replaced in luftwaffe service by Dornier 215 aircraft after the polish campaign. Amazingly Xtradecal have a available Dornier 215 decal sheet (72277) that has a scheme with the exact same unit code and staffel/individual aircraft letter in the correct colour as depicted on the airfix boxed Dornier 17 decal sheet! The decals are of the correct size, as the 215 was basically a export Dornier 17 with different engines. I actually applied these Xtradecals to my 17F last night, and they look really good, far better in fact than the ones on the original Airfix decal sheet. Selwyn 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PatG Posted February 29 Share Posted February 29 (edited) I have some spare decals from the Italeri Do217E kit plus part of the Eagle Strike 'Deadly Dorniers' set as well, plus another part decal set for the Do217E of unknown origin, that I'm happy to send you if this would help? The Eagle Strike sheet has a crease in the middle that has damaged some of the crosses but the rest are undamaged and still very useable including all the codes. The codes seem to relate to KG40 and KG2 machines in the main so if you are interested then drop me a pm with your address and I'll post off to you. Pat. Edited February 29 by PatG 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stickleback Posted February 29 Share Posted February 29 There was a rather nice 70’s vintage ESCI decal sheet (No. 38) featuring several Do 17‘s and Do 217‘s with interesting unit badges. If you like you may have a look at it on scalemates.com. And it can still be found repeatedly on evil bay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PatG Posted February 29 Share Posted February 29 (edited) Let me know if you are still interested or if you have found other options instead. Pat. Edited February 29 by PatG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PatG Posted March 1 Share Posted March 1 The Airfix kit was excellent when issued but now surpassed by the Italeri version which is far more accurate. That said the Italeri kit is hardly state of the art either with raised panel lines, a very sparse cockpit and too narrow rear fuselage but still a much better start point. However it is great to see these old Airfix kits built so enjoy the build and the decals I've now sent. Pat. Ps. just a pity that this version has still to be issued by any kit manufacturer in 72nd scale! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PatG Posted March 4 Share Posted March 4 Adam, Hopefully the decals have now arrived safe and sound and that they are what you were looking for. Pat. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tempestfan Posted March 4 Share Posted March 4 On 3/1/2024 at 4:56 PM, PatG said: The Airfix kit was excellent when issued but now surpassed by the Italeri version which is far more accurate. IMHO this only applies to the 17, which is one of a handful of Airfix 70s kits with mainly engraved panel lines and has quite decent overall detail. The 217 in my opinion has always been rather crude - look at those flame suppressors, the u/c, the engines, those blobby clear parts - maybe on par in 1961, but she has not stood the test of time well. And apparently a noticeably incorrect rear fuselage cross section. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PatG Posted March 4 Share Posted March 4 Bear in mind when the original Airfix mold was done so at the time it was a fair 'representation' of the aircraft as were so many of these period releases, such as the Defiant amongst others. The Italeri kit was the first, and to date the only, attempt to portray the aircraft accurately even though this still has some issues but a good start point for those with skills to correct. For me I made my Italeri kit mainly OOB with some extra interior detailing, new MG's and the Airwaves pe set to improve some of the exterior elements but it still looks like a Do217E to my eyes so I'm happy with it. Pat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham Boak Posted March 4 Share Posted March 4 Like a lot of the kits of that period, it looked like a Dornier (or whatever) until we saw what a Dornier looked like. If it came out in 1961 I was 14 and thought it fine. By the time I came to make a second maybe 10 years later, I wasn't so enthusiastic. Rear fuselages were also a problem for the Ju.88, with the Airfix kit being a too-simple box and the Revell being a too-simple ellipse. The real aircraft has an diagonal line running upwards from behind the bombbay to before the tailplane. To call it a crease is too much, but certainly a kink. It can be best seen in the rare views from below and behind, where the change of direction of the markings is clear. I'd have to look at the later kits again, but I'm not sure the Italeri one is right. Better possibly. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PatG Posted March 4 Share Posted March 4 (edited) I bought all the books I could find (not that many) on the Do217E before I did my build and the Italeri kit certainly has the wrong shaped rear fuselage as in being far too narrow but my skills were/are not up to rectifying this defect so I went 'as is'. Apparently there was a rather ancient (and not available) aftermarket product some time ago to correct this defect but at the end of the day I'm very happy with my Do217E build as it looks the part. As for the Airfix kit it is great that these old kits area still being built from a time when we were not spoiled by all the various aftermarket extras and scale plans we have now in the pursuit of absolute accuracy. Back in the 60's if it looked reasonably OK and accurate then it was good to go and great pleasure ensued, so now really just about the proper context. Pat. Ps. I'm very happy to build old Airfix, Revell and Frog kits for the pure fun of modeling, plus a healthy dose of nostalgia to boot! Edited March 4 by PatG 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam Poultney Posted March 4 Author Share Posted March 4 1 hour ago, PatG said: Adam, Hopefully the decals have now arrived safe and sound and that they are what you were looking for. Pat. Yes they are safely in my possession now and should be perfect. Thanks again for sending them 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PatG Posted March 4 Share Posted March 4 Adam, My pleasure. Pat. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tempestfan Posted March 4 Share Posted March 4 3 hours ago, Graham Boak said: Like a lot of the kits of that period, it looked like a Dornier (or whatever) until we saw what a Dornier looked like. If it came out in 1961 I was 14 and thought it fine. By the time I came to make a second maybe 10 years later, I wasn't so enthusiastic. Rear fuselages were also a problem for the Ju.88, with the Airfix kit being a too-simple box and the Revell being a too-simple ellipse. The real aircraft has an diagonal line running upwards from behind the bombbay to before the tailplane. To call it a crease is too much, but certainly a kink. It can be best seen in the rare views from below and behind, where the change of direction of the markings is clear. I'd have to look at the later kits again, but I'm not sure the Italeri one is right. Better possibly. Scalemates says 1960, so give or take a year I was off. I bought my first Airfix 217 slightly earlier than 14 (the 1978ish mild retool), and was somewhat unimpressed compared to the Seasprite. The Italeri 88 is said to be based on the Granger drawings, and to be too boxy as well for that reason. Just like the AMT/AMTech. I wonder how the Frog fares, of the legacy kits. --- Anyway, it is somewhat surprising that Revell should have a CAD file of a 217 for some 20 years but did not do the pretty obvious and blessed us with a rather modern 1/72 kit. If I'm not mistaken, this was Bill Koster's last design (or one of the last), which I'd take to be kind of a quality hallmark. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PatG Posted March 5 Share Posted March 5 (edited) According to the two books I have on Airfix the Do217E came out in 1959, the year I was born, and was re-released at various intervals with new box art and then with extra parts for the night fighter version around 1978, so a very venerable kit indeed! Hardly surprising therefore that it is now deemed to be somewhat old hat and poor compared with the much later Italeri offering. Pat. Edited March 5 by PatG typo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete in Lincs Posted March 5 Share Posted March 5 Adam, Here's a ink to some 217E information. I hope it might help in some way. Pete https://falkeeins.blogspot.com/search/label/Dornier Do 217 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PatG Posted March 5 Share Posted March 5 (edited) Adam, I also have pdf copies of some original Luftwaffe technical manuals for the Do217 so let me know if these would be of interest as well and I could e-mail them to you? They contain lots of really good internal pics showing the armament, cockpit layout etc. etc. Pat. Edited March 5 by PatG extra detail 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam Poultney Posted March 8 Author Share Posted March 8 So it looks like there are two tailcone options. @PatGany pointers as to what each one is? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brewerjerry Posted March 8 Share Posted March 8 (edited) 1 hour ago, Adam Poultney said: So it looks like there are two tailcone options. @PatGany pointers as to what each one is? Hi basically Long tail cone = airbrake, short tailcone = no airbrake https://old-forum.warthunder.com/index.php?/topic/129354-umbrella-airbrake-modification-for-do-217/ also there was a tail gun pack R20 cheers jerry Edited March 8 by brewerjerry 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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