P-47D Razorback canopy area

[Starfighter]

Hi everybody,

Just about to fit the canopy to my 1/48 P-47D  LM - Q  27937 of the 56th. FG and I would like some clirification regarding the area behind the canopy. I've seen  info on Frank Klibbe's " Little Chief " which states that this area was painted dark grey, but other pics seem to indicate that it was olive drab, as per the sirplane's colour scheme.

My question is would other aircraft be painted like this, or would it be some other colour i.e. the cockpit green shade, or olive drab  ? Any help would be much appreciated 

 

[elger]

It's a question that people have very strong feelings about. It's difficult to tell: there are photos of good quality (black and white as well as original colour) that show different things: some photos show the area behind the glass was clearly Olive Drab, other photos show a clearly different colour - it could be faded Olive Drab (perhaps the glass did something to how the paint weathered), or it could be that the colour simply looks different because it's behind glass. It could also be the interior green colour of the cockpit (bronze green).

 

Last year I built this aircraft:

 

 

The area is either a) OD that looks lighter in the photograph because it's behind glass, b) a faded version of OD because the of sun wear that's worse for the area behind the glass than the rest of the fuselage), c) interior (bronze) green, or d) a different colour all together. But my guess is option A.

 

When I built my P-47D I went with Olive Drab, because I had seen photos of a recovered wreck of a P-47 that showed this area to be OD, rather than the interior colour. But as you can see, the B&W photo of the aircraft I built shows that the area might be a different shade:

 

 

[Chuck1945]

Factory photos show if it was manufactured with OD upper surfaces, the quarter panel area was treated as exterior and was also OD

[Dana Bell]

As noted above, the paint used was Dark Olive Drab.  Also as noted, the paint faded more dramatically than the exterior color, so you can gray things up a bit for your model.  However, do NOT use any of the interior greens.

 

Cheers,

 

 

Dana

[Phoenix44]

3 hours ago, Dana Bell said:

As noted above, the paint used was Dark Olive Drab.  Also as noted, the paint faded more dramatically than the exterior color, so you can gray things up a bit for your model.  However, do NOT use any of the interior greens.

 

Cheers,

 

 

Dana

Are you sure? As you know better than me, the main cause of most paint fading is UV light and glass blocks virtually all UVB and around 25% of UVA. It also blocks some IR wavelengths, so it would be surprising if paint behind glass faded more quickly than the same paint on an exterior surface? Or was there something different about OD?

Edited November 12, 2023 by Phoenix44

[Bozothenutter]

And plexiglass?

[Phoenix44]

13 hours ago, Bozothenutter said:

And plexiglass?

Yes, plexiglass blocks UV. It can be formulated to block all UV. Plexiglass is technically a glass as it is non-crystalline and vitreous.

Edited November 13, 2023 by Phoenix44

[Starfighter]

18 hours ago, Dana Bell said:

As noted above, the paint used was Dark Olive Drab.  Also as noted, the paint faded more dramatically than the exterior color, so you can gray things up a bit for your model.  However, do NOT use any of the interior greens.

 

Cheers,

 

 

Dana

Thanks Dana . . . I think I'l go with the slightly lightened colur as you suggest. It might not be 100 per cent right, but at least it will look like the photos I've seen. Someone will come along now and tell me that's wrong !  😂.

[Tbolt]

On 12/11/2023 at 12:07, Starfighter said:

Hi everybody,

Just about to fit the canopy to my 1/48 P-47D  LM - Q  27937 of the 56th. FG and I would like some clirification regarding the area behind the canopy. I've seen  info on Frank Klibbe's " Little Chief " which states that this area was painted dark grey, but other pics seem to indicate that it was olive drab, as per the sirplane's colour scheme.

My question is would other aircraft be painted like this, or would it be some other colour i.e. the cockpit green shade, or olive drab  ? Any help would be much appreciated 

 

 

This area is treated as an external surface, so painted OD on aircraft that were finished in OD and was left unpainted starting with 42-25274. These factory photos shows the turtle deck painted OD. Some people think that it wasn't OD just because of how the colour appears in some photos.

 

 

 

 

 

Weathering plays a big part in why it often looks lighter, but often they waxed the exterior of the aircraft giving it a darker and shinier appearance. The canopy also can affect the look, notice here how the turtledeck is lighter but the fuselage area behind it looks a little lighter than the rest of the fuselage.

 

 

 

Some aircraft appear to show the turtledeck considerably lighter than the rest of the fuselage such as on this aircraft. But note this is a war weary airframe, so has been around a while and a lot of the paint on the fuselage isn't original.

 

 

 

Some aircraft get repaired and this area might not get repainting OD. Some people have surmised this is what could have happened with "Little Chief". Personally I don't thing that is the case with that airframe as it's not as light as others Ive seen.

 

Here's a few more examples of photos which clearly show the OD.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

This area looking lighter can easily be achieved on a model. Here's one of my P-47's after painting and you can see the turtledeck is painted with the same OD as the rest of the model.

 

 

 

Here it is after weathering and varnish coats, the turtledeck now appears a lot lighter than the rest of the aircraft.

 

 

 

 

 

[Starfighter]

That last photo

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

8 hours ago, Tbolt said:

 

This area is treated as an external surface, so painted OD on aircraft that were finished in OD and was left unpainted starting with 42-25274. These factory photos shows the turtle deck painted OD. Some people think that it wasn't OD just because of how the colour appears in some photos.

 

 

 

 

 

Weathering plays a big part in why it often looks lighter, but often they waxed the exterior of the aircraft giving it a darker and shinier appearance. The canopy also can affect the look, notice here how the turtledeck is lighter but the fuselage area behind it looks a little lighter than the rest of the fuselage.

 

 

 

Some aircraft appear to show the turtledeck considerably lighter than the rest of the fuselage such as on this aircraft. But note this is a war weary airframe, so has been around a while and a lot of the paint on the fuselage isn't original.

 

 

 

Some aircraft get repaired and this area might not get repainting OD. Some people have surmised this is what could have happened with "Little Chief". Personally I don't thing that is the case with that airframe as it's not as light as others Ive seen.

 

Here's a few more examples of photos which clearly show the OD.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

This area looking lighter can easily be achieved on a model. Here's one of my P-47's after painting and you can see the turtledeck is painted with the same OD as the rest of the model.

 

 

 

Here it is after weathering and varnish coats, the turtledeck now appears a lot lighter than the rest of the aircraft.

 

Thanks for that, Tbolt. that last photo really shows the effect on your model, so I shall  now use OD on my model. Of course if I had done a bubbletop P-47 that wouldn't have been a problem, but I definitely prefer the " Razorback "  

 

 

 

 

[Duggy]

Here's a factory shot of RAF Mk I's on the production line just after spraying.(and note the P-47 bottom right)

[72modeler]

I remember reading in one source a while back, that unfortunately I can't recall, that the refracted light through the plexiglass causes the underlying OD paint to appear lighter; you can see this same effect in photos of the quarter windows on P-40's and birdcage F4U-1's. Thanks, as always, @Tbolt, for the outstanding reference photos!

Mike

[Mark Oddy]

@Tbolt That is an impressive Thunderbolt you’ve built. In your opinion which would be the best kit to buy in 1/72?
I’m looking to build a 5 sqn aircraft in SEAC colours during their time in India/Burma. Any help or notes appreciated.

Cheers

Mark.

[Tbolt]

11 minutes ago, Mark Oddy said:

@Tbolt That is an impressive Thunderbolt you’ve built. In your opinion which would be the best kit to buy in 1/72?
I’m looking to build a 5 sqn aircraft in SEAC colours during their time in India/Burma. Any help or notes appreciated.

Cheers

Mark.

 

Thanks. The Tamiya kit is the only 1/72nd P-47 I would buy now. The only real downside is the oil cooler flaps and deflector flaps are moulded in with the fuselage, which means they are at the incorrect angle. It's a fairly easy fix as they can be squared up by sanding or Quickboost do some resin ones. If you want to do any earlier Razorback, D-16 or early, the engine only comes with turtleback mags so I just replace them with plastic rod.