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paint schemes


masterKamera
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It would be better to decide which country at which time you want to do.  Things changed a lot over four years.  At the start it was all clear doped linen, but after that things changed, sometimes rather rapidly.

Later,

Dave

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I guess the answer is no.
The best example of what might fall into that category is US ww2 "army" olive drab.
There were variations (wear, pigments, age) but the standard was fixed, enough for models. And late in the war the air forces began to use on some planes an olive drab that was in theory the same.

Enough homogenisation there.

WW1? no.

Edited by Steben
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You have to remember that things with wings were all brand new at the time so a lot of experimentation and and trial by error was going on.  By WW II things had pretty much settled down but things still changed, sometimes a lot, depending on conditions.  Towards the end of the war the USAAF got rid of camo paint altogether to save weight and improving conditions in the air, i.e. gaining air superiority over the German defenders.  When the RAF went over to the offensive from the defensive, they changed the colors used in their standard day fighter scheme.  In the last fifty years we have gone from the SEA scheme to Hill 1 and Hill 2 and other schemes using shades of gray.  The RAF went from patterns similar to WW II to various grays as well.  If you limit yourself to just a few colors you will soon run out of subject choices. 

Later,

Dave

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Well the thing is, im striving for simplicity. As much as possible. With so much variation in units and in individual air craft and by country im just banging my head on a wall as my OCD is really really kicking in on "getting the right color" when no one agrees on what the colors really are between brands. 

 

 

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Depends very much on the country you wish to model. The UK is reasonably straightforward in terms of schemes and standards, but as always with these things, the devil is in the detail. For example, PC10, the upper surface colour widely used from 1916 onwards showed some variation owing to manufacturing and supply issues and so two different, but similar shades between model paint manufacturers may be OK. 

The other problem is that we can recreate the paint to a formula (which has been done), but with limited reliable colour samples, we do not have absolute answers, and photographs are off limited help as virtually no colour photography, and a range of different processes and emulsions. 

I am sorry as I appreciate this does not help you with your OCD. I think you may have to settle on a range of colours and stick with them, as this is an area where absolute certainty is impossible. If you have some internal consistency between the models you build based on the best information you have, you will at least have a starting point. 

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22 hours ago, masterKamera said:

Well the thing is, im striving for simplicity. As much as possible. With so much variation in units and in individual air craft and by country im just banging my head on a wall as my OCD is really really kicking in on "getting the right color" when no one agrees on what the colors really are between brands. 

 

 

Try not to let your OCD become your master.  Remember that you are doing this for fun.  As was mentioned by Mr. T, by mid war the RFC/RNAS/RAF colors were fairly well standardized.  There was always a little variation between different lots of paint, something that I would say still happens today.  The French had also standardized on about four colors towards the end of the war.  For the most part, once the U.S. got into the war, we went with what the other allies were using,  French colors fpr the French aircraft and British colors for the British aircraft.  It wasn't until the very end that the U.S. had any of their own built aircraft to use, the DH-4A with the Liberty engine being the only one I can think of off the top of my bald little head!

Later,

Dave

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What I have found myself doing is settling on a particular type of paint that I get along with (can spray easily, colours appear to be acceptable to my eye, preferably lacquer based acrylics etc) and try to stick to them. I am not a fan of water based acrylics so tend to stick to hotter paints so that narrows my focus onto brands such as Mr Color, Mr Hobby and Mr Paint. Not all their colours are 100% accurate so some switching between the brands is required but it gives me a starting point and for some genres I know I can use one brand's paints. For example if I am building mid WW2 Luftwaffe fighters then I know I'm going to use Mr Color/Mr Hobby as I find them to be accurate enough for me. For modern Russian colours I have settled on Mr Paint colours.

I don't think there is any brand out there that has absolute 100% accuracy of every colour in it's range so some chopping and changing is required if you want 'total accuracy' (however you define that?) across all genres. If you tend to build particular themes then it is easier to settle on one particular brand of paint depending on what that theme is (as mentioned above). In short, settle on a type of paint that works for you then look at the brands that make that type of paint.

 

Duncan B

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Its relatively bad for me, but when you have everyone making 5 or 6 different shades of Black for crying out loud.. it doesnt help. 

 

Then you have kits that give you 12 colors on the back, but forget the 3 or 4 colors needed on one tiny 1mm by 2mm spot inside the cockpit or gun  handle for a lewis gun, you go bonkers trying to figure out what you need. 

 

Toss in that kits do not match the colors they show on box art versus paint diagram. One gets really bad.  

 

Combine with how some pilots changed their colors every year, and how each produciton lot looked. It doesnt help when you match humbrol light blue hellblau  and the paint chart says its tamiya sea foam blue...

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4 hours ago, masterKamera said:

Its relatively bad for me, but when you have everyone making 5 or 6 different shades of Black for crying out loud.. it doesnt help. 

 

Then you have kits that give you 12 colors on the back, but forget the 3 or 4 colors needed on one tiny 1mm by 2mm spot inside the cockpit or gun  handle for a lewis gun, you go bonkers trying to figure out what you need. 

 

Toss in that kits do not match the colors they show on box art versus paint diagram. One gets really bad.  

 

Combine with how some pilots changed their colors every year, and how each produciton lot looked. It doesnt help when you match humbrol light blue hellblau  and the paint chart says its tamiya sea foam blue...

In no way intending to be snarky, but maybe you could infer from all the points you raise that you might be obsessing over minutia more than is healthy? For example, given that there are no color photographs from 1918 and that any actual relics are over 100 years old, meaning we can't reach any degree of certainty about most colors anyway, it seems unfair to the psyche to get too upset over something like a minor hue difference between two brands of light blue hobby paint.

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On 4/28/2022 at 11:10 PM, masterKamera said:

I am curious as can be,  

 

IS it possible to actually homogenize the paint schemes for great war planes so that one can make an easier purchase on paint to use?

You can always buy single pigments and treat them as your paint set...

 

Which is in fact exactly how I am doing it and I doubt I will ever need more colors...

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, Seawinder said:

meaning we can't reach any degree of certainty about most colors anyway

I am happily spending half a day ruminating over a particular shade of RLM green as if I became a monk and was meditating on the meaning of life on top of a tall mountain in the middle of spring...

 

... and then I spray "Meh, green enough" paint over a fun weekend Zeke build

 

And there is no dissonance in that.

Edited by Casey
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6 hours ago, Seawinder said:

For example, given that there are no color photographs from 1918 and that any actual relics are over 100 years old, meaning we can't reach any degree of certainty about most colors anyway, it seems unfair to the psyche to get too upset over something like a minor hue difference between two brands of light blue hobby paint.

Actually, that isn't entirely true. Certainly they're rare, but there were several systems that produced authentic colour prints. Relatively famous are those from a Bristol Fighter squadron, and recently there was one posted on Britmodeller of some Nieuport or other, in the context of the aluminium paint finish. And I'm not being confused by colourised photos. There were several photos published in some of the Windsock magazines, including the Biffs and Nieuport.

 

Paul.

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7 hours ago, Paul Thompson said:

Relatively famous are those from a Bristol Fighter squadron


The photos you refer to were taken by Australian photographer Frank Hurley, using the Paget process.

 

https://www.awm.gov.au/visit/exhibitions/captured/official

 

Cheers,

 

Mark.

 

 

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