Mr Color Leveling Thinner and Revel Aqua

[MBM]

Hi all,

 

Just a quick question about thinning Revell aqua paints and their compatibility with Mr Leveling Thinner. Revel 371 is the perfect colour for airliner wings, and I really want to be able to put it on in thin layers but have never had much luck/the control when thinning them with acrylic thinners. 

 

I have tried thinning it down with Mr Color Leveling Thinner, about 25% paint to 75% thinner and got very mixed results. A couple of times it has gone on like a dream, thin smooth coats with the control I want but recently whenever I've tried thinning it down and then spraying it comes out in little spoldges and not in a mist and I have no idea what is going on. I've been thinking that the paint might be drying in the air before it hits the model but that's never happened with the Mr Thinner before.

 

Are Revell Aqua Paints (and Vallejo acrylics come to think of it) and Leveling Thinner simply not compatible with each other or am I doing something wrong? I'm just really confused as to why it worked fine one day and then not from then on so any help would be greatly appreciated, I have a VC10 and 2x 767's in desperate need of paint!!

 

Many thanks,

 

M

[spruecutter96]

Not trying to be a smart-bottom here, but the "perceived wisdom" is that most paints should only be thinned with that same manufacturer's thinner and if they work well with other maker's thinners, then that is an added bonus. 

 

The original manufacturer's thinner formula has been developed for that job exclusively. Anything made by another firm could have who-knows-what-in-it. The formula could be made to combine well with "Ingredient X", but will not play well with paint that lack "X".

 

The assumption that a second maker's formulation should work with your paints is a pretty bold one.

 

This is not meant to be condescending or aggravating - but I fully understand that if it's read in the wrong "tone" it could come across that way. It is purely intended as friendly advice (nothing more).    

 

Hope this helps.

 

Chris. 

[treker_ed]

3 hours ago, MBM said:

Hi all,

 

Just a quick question about thinning Revell aqua paints and their compatibility with Mr Leveling Thinner. Revel 371 is the perfect colour for airliner wings, and I really want to be able to put it on in thin layers but have never had much luck/the control when thinning them with acrylic thinners. 

 

I have tried thinning it down with Mr Color Leveling Thinner, about 25% paint to 75% thinner and got very mixed results. A couple of times it has gone on like a dream, thin smooth coats with the control I want but recently whenever I've tried thinning it down and then spraying it comes out in little spoldges and not in a mist and I have no idea what is going on. I've been thinking that the paint might be drying in the air before it hits the model but that's never happened with the Mr Thinner before.

 

Are Revell Aqua Paints (and Vallejo acrylics come to think of it) and Leveling Thinner simply not compatible with each other or am I doing something wrong? I'm just really confused as to why it worked fine one day and then not from then on so any help would be greatly appreciated, I have a VC10 and 2x 767's in desperate need of paint!!

 

Many thanks,

 

M

Vallejo Acrylics are a type of polyurethane  based acrylic paint - they don't react very nicely to other thinners and turn into a gloopy mess (found that out the hard way using their primers!!!!!). I used to used Revell, and managed to thin them using Tamiya X20A and also Ultimate Modelling Product Thinners. No problem at all using these to thin Revell. BUT..... do not use Tamiya to thin Vallejo. Tamiya paint and thinner is an alcohol (or such) based paint and thinner and will react badly with the Vallejo paint. As the post above says - ideally use Vallejo thinner or cleaner with Vallejo paints.

[dnl42]

1 hour ago, treker_ed said:

Vallejo Acrylics are a type of polyurethane  based acrylic paint - they don't react very nicely to other thinners and turn into a gloopy mess (found that out the hard way using their primers!!!!!).

I too found this out the hard way. It was a complete mess to clean out my airbrush. Never again.

 

Now, as @spruecutter96 noted, I'm a big fan of only thinning with the manufacturer's thinner or known good combinations. As I use Mr Color paints, MLT is by goto thinner--the combination is magnificent!

 

If you do want to try some foreign thinner-paint combo, do so. But only in an easy-to-clean or disposable container, and let it sit. Try painting it with an easy-to-clean or disposable brush. Only if it still looks good and flows well should you try it in an airbrush.

[Ray_W]

6 hours ago, MBM said:

Are Revell Aqua Paints (and Vallejo acrylics come to think of it) and Leveling Thinner simply not compatible with each other or am I doing something wrong? I'm just really confused as to why it worked fine one day and then not from then on so any help would be greatly appreciated, I have a VC10 and 2x 767's in desperate need of paint!!

 

I agree with the others and would not use Mr Color Leveling Thinner (MLT) with Revell Aqua. I find when using paint chemistries that work well with water as a thinner, such as Revell Aqua, try water as your first thinner of choice. You will need to thin more than you expect. Start with your 25% paint to 75% water (which still might be too much paint as Revell is quite thick) and build thin coats. I use Lifecolor this way and very happy with the results. Use deionised water if you like although I use just tap water. I have added a small amount of Windsor & Newton Flow Slo-Dri Retarder to water to make a pre-mix thinner to prevent tip dry. I have also used their Flow Aid with good results even though it is a different product. It does work.

 

Others will recommend IPA and a range of other home brew solutions and yet water, for me, was best.

 

These days I have largely moved away from water thinned paints for airbrushing. Far too variable although I still like them a lot for brush painting. Lacquers (Gunze, Tamiya LP, AK Real Color, MRP) and alcohol solvent aqueous paints like Gunze Mr Hobby Color and Tamiya (X and XF range) thinned with MLT or their proprietary brand thinners are now my go to paints.  

 

Ray

[Chimpion]

Revell do their own Aqua thinner which works well with these. It can be hard to find in stock but should be available on order.

 

[MBM]

On 29/07/2021 at 21:26, spruecutter96 said:

Not trying to be a smart-bottom here, but the "perceived wisdom" is that most paints should only be thinned with that same manufacturer's thinner and if they work well with other maker's thinners, then that is an added bonus. 

 

The original manufacturer's thinner formula has been developed for that job exclusively. Anything made by another firm could have who-knows-what-in-it. The formula could be made to combine well with "Ingredient X", but will not play well with paint that lack "X".

 

The assumption that a second maker's formulation should work with your paints is a pretty bold one.

 

This is not meant to be condescending or aggravating - but I fully understand that if it's read in the wrong "tone" it could come across that way. It is purely intended as friendly advice (nothing more).    

 

Hope this helps.

 

Chris. 

Hi Chris,

 

Many thanks for your advice it's greatly appreciated and apologies for my late reply, moving city and work has put modelling on the backburner for a while!

 

I completely see where you're coming from and thanks for your honesty its certainly taught me to try and stick with one paint brand so I'm not having to get lots of different thinners etc.

 

I try to cross mix where I can to simply save money and this has worked well (more or less!) with acrylics but yes I agree it is bold to assume crossing brands would work.

 

Many thanks,

Mark

[spruecutter96]

No problem at all, Mark. Good luck with your modelling endeavours. 

 

Chris. 

[MBM]

On 30/07/2021 at 00:18, treker_ed said:

Vallejo Acrylics are a type of polyurethane  based acrylic paint - they don't react very nicely to other thinners and turn into a gloopy mess (found that out the hard way using their primers!!!!!). I used to used Revell, and managed to thin them using Tamiya X20A and also Ultimate Modelling Product Thinners. No problem at all using these to thin Revell. BUT..... do not use Tamiya to thin Vallejo. Tamiya paint and thinner is an alcohol (or such) based paint and thinner and will react badly with the Vallejo paint. As the post above says - ideally use Vallejo thinner or cleaner with Vallejo paints.

Hi!

 

Many thanks for your advice and apologies for my slow reply. I will bare the above in mind, I think a huge takeaway from this is don't thin Revell or Vallejo with anything other than their own brand thinners.

 

Many thanks,

M 

[MBM]

On 30/07/2021 at 01:33, dnl42 said:

I too found this out the hard way. It was a complete mess to clean out my airbrush. Never again.

 

Now, as @spruecutter96 noted, I'm a big fan of only thinning with the manufacturer's thinner or known good combinations. As I use Mr Color paints, MLT is by goto thinner--the combination is magnificent!

 

If you do want to try some foreign thinner-paint combo, do so. But only in an easy-to-clean or disposable container, and let it sit. Try painting it with an easy-to-clean or disposable brush. Only if it still looks good and flows well should you try it in an airbrush.

Hi,

 

Many thanks for your advice, having read your comment and experimenting myself I would agree 100% that I'll only use paints and their own brand thinner. The interesting thing is that the Revell and MLT mix, massively thinned though, seemed to look like it would flow well through an airbriush but it spits in a very weird way out of the nozzle and doesn't create a smooth layer, more of a mottled effect.

 

Many thanks,

M

[MBM]

On 30/07/2021 at 04:50, Ray_W said:

 

I agree with the others and would not use Mr Color Leveling Thinner (MLT) with Revell Aqua. I find when using paint chemistries that work well with water as a thinner, such as Revell Aqua, try water as your first thinner of choice. You will need to thin more than you expect. Start with your 25% paint to 75% water (which still might be too much paint as Revell is quite thick) and build thin coats. I use Lifecolor this way and very happy with the results. Use deionised water if you like although I use just tap water. I have added a small amount of Windsor & Newton Flow Slo-Dri Retarder to water to make a pre-mix thinner to prevent tip dry. I have also used their Flow Aid with good results even though it is a different product. It does work.

 

Others will recommend IPA and a range of other home brew solutions and yet water, for me, was best.

 

These days I have largely moved away from water thinned paints for airbrushing. Far too variable although I still like them a lot for brush painting. Lacquers (Gunze, Tamiya LP, AK Real Color, MRP) and alcohol solvent aqueous paints like Gunze Mr Hobby Color and Tamiya (X and XF range) thinned with MLT or their proprietary brand thinners are now my go to paints.  

 

Ray

Hi Ray, 

 

Many thanks for your advice and apologies for my late reply.

 

When I started airbrushing I did use water as a thinner (I wasn't risking using enamels/lacquers in an airbrush back then) firstly I never thinned it enough which didn't help but I found living in the South-East with the hard water the minerals sometimes reacted with the paint and produced some really odd effects. So yes I will look into deionised water, however it seems Xtracolor (Hannants) thinner works well with the Revell Aqua.

 

I think I will start to move away from acrylics and only use them when absolutely necessary as they do seem a lot less reliable than the lacquers.

 

Many thanks,

Mark

On 30/07/2021 at 13:35, Chimpion said:

Revell do their own Aqua thinner which works well with these. It can be hard to find in stock but should be available on order.

 

Hi,

 

Thanks, yes I agree its hard to find these days although from what I remember Wonderland Models still sells it, costs a lot compared to other thinners though for the amount you get!

 

Many thanks,

Mark

[blanco77]

On 30/07/2021 at 01:33, dnl42 said:

I too found this out the hard way. It was a complete mess to clean out my airbrush. Never again.

 

Now, as @spruecutter96 noted, I'm a big fan of only thinning with the manufacturer's thinner or known good combinations. As I use Mr Color paints, MLT is by goto thinner--the combination is magnificent!

 

If you do want to try some foreign thinner-paint combo, do so. But only in an easy-to-clean or disposable container, and let it sit. Try painting it with an easy-to-clean or disposable brush. Only if it still looks good and flows well should you try it in an airbrush.

Hi there. Just thought I’d add to this from what I’ve read, experienced. Painful, those of a nervous disposition look away now..

 

I put together and built an Revell 1.72 Hurricane MK2b. Great kit, used Revel Aqua, some Vallejo water based acrylic, build went absolutely fine, under carriage down, desert camo tick, used a brush. I used at the very last minute probably superseded now, a Humbrol rattle can of “Acrylic Matt Varnish.” I’m not knocking Humbrol at all, they have been making Airfix kits (Revell are good to) and Humbrol Enamel Tinlets since the age of 10, the sort you were told to store upside down and open with an electric screwdriver to stir, Halfords Thinners to clean up the tool, brushes etc. I shook and rattled this can of Varnish, delicate side to side mist, perfect application the whole project looked great, home and hosed? Oh no, watched in horror as my delicate side to side Humbrol Acrylic Matt Varnish totally fried the cockpit, decals everything. If I was going for desert bleached’ just got very that and there wasn’t a thing I could do it. So cruel, right at the end too! Right, I digress…

 

In an ideal world we could all go to Halfords and buy the same thinner, paint and it would be cheap and we all could stick it to the CEO’s who aren’t concerned with little Jimmy and his hard earned pocket money, this is not Kansas (why you would want to go, I don’t know, but Dot seems to rate it.)  

 

As said in quote above and elsewhere in this post, use a pre loved brush to perfect your Paint/Thinner ratio, Psi on a stick of plastic sprue, before loading your precious Iwata (another horror story about that,) or wisely purchased Chinese Gun and Compressor combo. I’m a newbie to airbrushes so learning myself. Simply going on what I’ve read and now very much converted to same paint manufacturer, same thinner/flow control medium etc. I’m keenly awaiting Mr Colour SLT and Mr Surficer. I feel like an idiot doing this, Halfords is cheap and comes in containers you don’t need a microscope to read. BUT, is it worth ruining your hard work in one go, right at the end? If companies are now making specific paints and accompanying thinners, mediums, I’d play it safe. You can bet their chemists have worked out that cross using’ another make thinners especially, you lose and there be a swear moment 😉. Manufacturer makes money holding you to ransom, on purpose, evil I know. Please let us know if you find out the answer! 
 

Two thoughts, as I understand it Tamiya, Mr Color are both naughtily labled’ Acrylic but it’s the suspension that the paint is in, that could be the problem? I think they are Laquer based Acrylic. Revell, Humbrol, Vallejo are true Water Based’ and possibly wont mix with Tamiya, Mr Color and others. I plan to use a light mist of gloss clear coat after every stage, that way it doesn’t matter what you use, start putting on good old Humbrol Enamel, you can wipe off with white spirit and not damage your creative thus far. Sorry for ramble, hope this helps, interested to learn people’s findings. Thanks