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Latvia: Hannover Cl.IIIa from Eduard.


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Right, now that my Lightning is finally on finals, I am allowing myself to make a start on my entries in this GB. First up will be the Eduard Hannover Cl.IIIa in Latvian colours, followed by the HobbyBoss Super Tucano in Mauretanian markings.

Why start the old one first? Because it's old, and frankly, I'm not expecting it to be an easy build - if I can get the bones of this one together, the HB Super Tuc will be a breeze. This kit dates from 1994, when Eduard where still finding their feet with full kits. It's got a complete photoetched interior, surrounded by 1970s Airfix-style plastic. Hmm... check the photos for details. I've had the kit in my stash for many years, always with the intention of it being Latvian, so this GB is a good thing. I've dug it out a few times over the years, had a look at it and gone "Nah, not this time." Well, now is the time.

Apparently, it's somewhat of a rarity, and may be worth actual $$ on the market, but meh - I bought it to build it, so build it I shall! (that kind of gets into a fantasy of mine, actually - going to a model show and spending a considerable sum on something rare, then breaking it open and cutting bits off the sprue right there in the hall, with 'collectors' fainting left, right and centre around me. Yes, the whole 'collectors' thing annoys me, especially with plastic kits - durn things were made to be made, so let's make 'em! Right, enough of my rants, back to the topic at hand.)

Obligatory box shot.

EduardCllllaboxtop_zpsf1e10fdc.jpg
Sprues etc.

EduardCllllaspruesetc_zps38d72eed.jpg

That PE fret (minus a couple of bits, because I started it before I took the photo).

EduardCllllaphotoetchfret_zps7fad5c1f.jp


I sat down last night, girded up my loins, and got cracking. First task was to see what sort of silk purse could be made of the sow's ear plastic, so I spent some time cleaning up the major airframe components. The shapes are actually pretty good, and if I can conquer the PE (and the rigging, Oh the rigging...) I think all will be well.

Here's the major structure.

EduardCllllaairframecleanedup_zps523a3fc

More to come as I get through it.

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Hi Rob.

It's great to see this one under way, especially as it's a WWI subject (of which there are not too many in this GB).

Totally agree with you too that kits are there to be built! :popcorn:

Cliff

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I've liked your first post for many reasons Rob, not least of which is your chosen subject matter, now I'm looking forward to seeing it take shape.

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Update:

No photos, because there hasn't been a lot of visual change. I spent some time today drilling holes, thinning plastic and sorting out how I was going to secure the wingy bits (lower mainplanes as well as that delightful biplane tail) to the fuselage, given that Eduard sort-of kind-of don't really make it easy to do it - their answer is a couple of short, badly moulded pins on the inner end of the lower wings, to fit in holes that you drill... all the structural integrity of a rhubarb crane boom. I cut them off and have substituted some brass wire, to go into the cross-fuselage holes that will be finished off when the 2 halves are firmly glued (nowt worse than wings that don't line up). Ditto the tail bits, which should be bulletproof now. Which is overkill, as the Lets didn't use this thing in combat...

The other thing I've been working on is the thorny and vexing question of the louvres around the engine cowling... they are tiny, and some will be damaged during seam removal, because of that aforementioned 1970's Airfix-style plastic. So I've been investigating making louvre punches. And I have come to the conclusion that I need a good slap around the back of my head for even contemplating it, let alone actually trying it. Instead, I feel that recording their positions, removing all of them, then replacing with 1/4 round stock may be the way to go. I'm open to suggestions...

More later.

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Me either Cliff, they're tiny. ;) I've been looking around at photos, and have discovered a discovery which makes things a mite more troublesome.

On the kit, they are represented by a raised bump, as here (<2mm long).

20150217_084153_zpsc454bba3.jpg

whereas on the real thing, as I have discovered, they are recessed - Eduard either misinterpreted the photos/plans they had (or had bad plans - that would be a surprise, now wouldn't it..), had access to an airframe that was different, or just got lazy.

Hannover_CL3-7-wingdetail_zps9fb768e2.jp

Under the wing is the area of interest. (Photo copied from http://flyingmachines.ru/Site2/Crafts/Craft25594.htm, who got it from Janes All The Worlds Aircraft 1918)

Wingnut Wings also have some excellent reference photos on their Cl.ll page, some of which are Cl.llla's. However, I can't paste a direct link or copy for posting here.

http://www.wingnutwings.com/ww/productdetail?productid=3086&cat=1

The photo on the second row, 6th from the right (of the pilot mit cigarette) is a fine illustration.

Now that I know that Eduard is wrong, I have to find a way to replicate recessed louvres, that are just less than 2mm long, and some of them go around corners. Any help appreciated.

I'm off to work today for a couple of night shifts, so progress on the Hannover will cease, unless I take the etch out with me and attempt to glue some up. But that may be a recipe for disaster, so I think I may not do it. :D

More later.

Edited by Rob G
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I can see your problem Rob.

I've had similar problems in 1/72 and printed off decals to provide an impression of louvres. Print black for holes or darker body colour for recesses (as I think you've got).

P1090046_zpsf187b76b.jpg

It's not perfect, but it is at least it's neat ;)

Good luck!

Cliff

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Update:

Not much to report, except that I have solved the issue of the louvres, by going around it. I'm going to cut off the offending panels and throw them in the bin, then install the Copper State Argus As.lll engine, and display it with a mechanic and pilot having a look at what's kaput. Problem solved. (Is that cheating??)

Sounds like an easy thing when I say it fast, but I've spent a couple of days free time in getting that solution. Stuffs is being ordered post haste. And anything I have learned about vector drawing programs today is being forgotten, to make room for more important information. ;)

More later.

Edit: BTW, if you are a WW1 modeller, DO NOT go to the Copper State website. It's dangerous territory, I tells ya. ;)

Edited by Rob G
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Update: (a little picture heavy)

I'm sure my old friend Will, the Bard of Avon would have had a curse suitable to leave upon the heads of Eduard's design team from 1994. Something along the lines of "a pox upon thee, knave", or maybe "Thine mother and thine father were strangers", and maybe even "I wish't that thine mothers had never conceived thee", although that one may be more Biblical than Bardish. It has not been a happy time. I knew from the start that it would be an adventure, and I was not too far wrong.

After the decision to remove the panels with the dodgy louvres was taken, and the amputation was performed, I ordered the Copper State Models resin engine, which is on its way (I hope...). I then realised that taking the top off the fuselage would open things in the engine bay up to view, so I have been spending time looking at references for structure and engine bearers etc, and wishing I'd decided to make something else instead. Maybe a conversion of The Sovereign of the Seas into a dH Caribou, or something equally easy.

Hmm.

And then there's that photoetched cockpit... if you are ever in the grip of a maniacal African dictator, an evil mad genius a la Ernst Stavro Blofeld, or even a Sith Lord, and you are commanded to make one of these Eduard things up, or face death, take the second option. Because a firing squad, pride of hungry lions, pool of blood-crazed sharks (or acid) or being cast into a block of carbonite is MUCH LESS SCARY than all those tiny metal bits. Trust me on this.

These are the components as supplied for the joystick. The mesh thing has to be made into a cylinder and placed over the pin, which needs to be trimmed to length, then the photoetched hand grip thing has to be folded up and glued, then bent. But not through the thickness of the sheet, which would be easy - it has to be done across the wide dimension. Suffice to say that it won't go, for some odd reason.

Joystick%20before__zpsbdag27al.jpg

After attempting the impossible, I attempted a few scratchbuilt interpretations, with no joy, then slept on it. Next morning, I managed this:

Joystick%20after__zpsbjxq9bxj.jpg

Which may be slightly overscale, but it agrees somewhat with Wingnut Wings' interpretation of the device, so that'll do me. Complete, it looks like this.

Joystick%20done__zpskcd6fxbu.jpg

Along the way, I've managed to put everything together, with the results getting slightly better as time passed. Pilot's seat here (WH&S officials look away now.)

Pilot%20seat__zpslgodudgt.jpg

The etched legs went a bit wonky, so I cut them off and replaced them with fuse wire, the top end of which has been cleaned up before installing the seat.

Working on the etched cockpit floor as supplied was... challenging. Every time I picked it up, it flexed, and previously glued items popped off, so I added a solid floor. Really solid. It's bulletproof now.

Cockpit%20reinforcement__zpstcx3l2en.jpg

Eduard thoughtfully provide some rudder pedals, which are almost impossible to add, at any stage of the proceedings. Nevertheless, added they were. I say 'pedals', they're more like stirrups, and according to WNW again, they're correct.

Rudder%20pedals__zpsy9limzci.jpg

Of course, I will have to remember to offset the rudder. Would one of you please remind me?

I left the fun bits until last, because all work and no play etc. This was so much fun that my smile is a rictus. There were 4 or 5 things that looked somewhat like this.

Some%20sort%20of%20switch__zps6vwnqbxu.j

My therapist says I'll recover given time and a lot of good whisky.

Of course, given that the fuselage would seem to be made of armour plate taken from a very early prototype of the Pz.Kpfw VIII Maus, the cockpit won't fit inside without substantial modification. Mr Dremel, meet Mr Eduard and his 'orrible plastic thing.

Fuselage%20thinning__zpsagxlxiwc.jpg

There is more still to be removed - from the nose all the way back to behind the gunner's opening, the whole depth of the fuselage. It looks like it's been snowing in my work area, good thing I'm single.

>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

Sorry, I had to stop for a whisky. Strictly medicinal.

With nothing to add to the cockpit now except for the crew harnesses, I can put this whole episode behind me, and move on to painting the thing. I do hope that the ugly bits are hidden, because the ugly bits are really ugly. If I'd put the reinforcement onto the floor from the start, there wouldn't be so many out of shape bits. Something to remember for next time. <twitch>

Photos of completed cockpit tomorrow, when the light's better, and the painted thing when the twitches subside and I can paint it.

Later.

Edited by Rob G
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Oooooo very nice! I had thought to do my WNW in Latvian markings...

One to watch, so :popcorn: + :drink: at the ready!

Christian the Married and exiled t oafrica

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You are a brave man sir. I have a few of the earlier Eduard offerings and I can say they have definitely improved their game over the years. I just have some of their old WWII stuff; you are tackling WWi with all that rigging. I think you will need more medicinal doses before you are through. What you have done so far is great. Eduard do seem to create parts that are so small they defy being actually used. And then they want you to bend them into a very non two dimensional shape. Good luck and will check in on you to see how your sanity is deteriorating.

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Hi Rob - lovely choice - and your work so far looks really great. I was just thinking re the louvres: could you use the tip of a half round swiss file - heated - then pressed into the plastic? paint the fuselage dark first, sand off the bumbs ,so you are left with plastic shaped markers, and then off you go!

It would look messy to start with but once you sanded off the out-melt it might look pretty good.

Just a thought

Following this with interest as i do like a Hannover!

Cheers & Good Luck

Jonners

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You're do great Rob.

I feel your pain with the PE, an necessary or unnecessary evil in most cases!

Have often wondered what those early Eduard model were like...now I'm just plan scared...thanks! :door:

And you are right models are meant to be built, I have a few as well that are probably worth a lot more now, but they will be built ....... one day!

Keep up the good work, I will defiantly be following this ones!!

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Thank you gentlemen, for your comments and thoughts. Much appreciated.

Great work Rob. I can tell that you loved every second of it really :winkgrin:

Cliff

"Loved every second of it." You sir, are a card, and should be dealt with. ;) There is a certain element of Mallory on Everest about completing the task, but it's not something I would want to attempt again. Not in a hurry anyway, and the subject would have to be dear to my heart and completely unavailable in any other format.

Oooooo very nice! I had thought to do my WNW in Latvian markings...

One to watch, so :popcorn: + :drink: at the ready!

Christian the Married and exiled t oafrica

Christian, the Lets had the Cl.llla, the WNW kit is, IIRC, a Cl.ll,which is a little different. Certainly a different motor, and some references quote different dimensions, too. That said, I'm sure you could manage a conversion with little effort. The biggest sticking point I have is that there are so few details available about the Latvian ones. They had 2, one built in the workshops, one given as war reparations, but the photos are few and mostly of low quality. Thankfully, there is a history of sorts documented and available online.

You are a brave man sir. I have a few of the earlier Eduard offerings and I can say they have definitely improved their game over the years. I just have some of their old WWII stuff; you are tackling WWi with all that rigging. I think you will need more medicinal doses before you are through. What you have done so far is great. Eduard do seem to create parts that are so small they defy being actually used. And then they want you to bend them into a very non two dimensional shape. Good luck and will check in on you to see how your sanity is deteriorating.

Bravery is just stupidity without experience. ;) I must agree with you regarding the newer Eduard efforts, some of them are lovely indeed. If this one had a resin cockpit available as an aftermarket, it would be a nice build - although the plastic is a little basic, the shapes are there and a few simple etched enhancements would just round it all off. Eduard certainly got the etch bug early - the gun, the (in)famous Spandau (although it was never officially called that by the Germans) is supplied as a series of folded etchings, a pin and a lot of bad language. I will photograph the bits, just to show you how fine Eduard could make stuff, even back then. It's mind-boggling.

I'm thinking that I may build my a/c without armament - none is clearly visible in the photos I have, and given that the LMG 08/15 was a weapon from a defeated nation and probably almost obselete by the 1920s, as well as the Lets using their Cl.lllas as recce birds, there's every chance that there wasn't a shooty thing on the front. That's my reasoning, anyway. Certainly none appears in the gunner's area, and the Germans designed it with twin guns on a ring mount there. Plus it will save me having to do battle with yet more small, fragile bits of brass that have no locating tabs.

Hi Rob - lovely choice - and your work so far looks really great. I was just thinking re the louvres: could you use the tip of a half round swiss file - heated - then pressed into the plastic? paint the fuselage dark first, sand off the bumbs ,so you are left with plastic shaped markers, and then off you go!

It would look messy to start with but once you sanded off the out-melt it might look pretty good.

Just a thought

Following this with interest as i do like a Hannover!

Cheers & Good Luck

Jonners

Thanks Jonners. Where were you when I needed that hint, eh? Sheesh. :) I might trial the method at some point for future reference, but for now, cowl-less is the way it will be - the mechanic has chucked the bits into a corner of the hangar, and there's every chance that the pilot won't miss them on his next flight. ;) Besides, with the resin Argus on the way, it would be a shame to cover it up - it looks quite lovely in t'pitchers.

You're do great Rob.

I feel your pain with the PE, an necessary or unnecessary evil in most cases!

Have often wondered what those early Eduard model were like...now I'm just plan scared...thanks! :door:

And you are right models are meant to be built, I have a few as well that are probably worth a lot more now, but they will be built ....... one day!

Keep up the good work, I will defiantly be following this ones!!

There's a good reason why Eduard stopped making all-etched interiors and learned to cast fine resin. I'm guessing was because their kits weren't getting built all that often. :D

If anyone has an early Eduard kit, get it out and make a start on it. Although a challenge, it is, as I have said, rewarding to get to the end of it. Extra thin, normal and gel super glue, some sort of magnifier, good light, planning and a set of good tweezers will make it happen. It also helps if you lay off the caffeine for a while, too.

With the back of this build being broken (the hard part is done, mostly), and a bit of a wait for detail bits to arrive, I have made a start on my other entry into this GB, the Mauritanian Super Tucano. In contrast, it's a modern kit of a modern type, mostly sans photoetch, and it should fly along. Look for a new thread later this evening.

More later.

Edited by Rob G
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Update:

As promised, a few photos of the completed brass cockpit. The white bit is a plastic replacement gunner's seat, because the floor monster got the etched on. Which is a worry, as it's actually a pretty large piece. Never mind. The silver bit above it a bit of aluminium tube, standing in for another etched bit, which isn't lost, because I didn't take it off the fret - it's one of those holy-cow-I-have-to-roll-this-into-a-2mm-cylinder-and-then-glue-it things. So I said big hairy oxen to that, and used an already round bit instead. I reckon I saved myself half a bottle of Glenlivet, right there.

_DSC_8432_zpssm8udocp.jpg

_DSC_8426_zpsiq0p2pkz.jpg

The joystick/control column/starship command unit is not yet glued in place, which is why it's leaning drunkenly against the instrument panel, as I want access to paint the bits., and I have still to fit the crew harnesses, but all in good time.

Also as promised, close ups of the etched bits for the Spandau. Check out the trigger guard on the stock... that's a standard 6" Toledo ruler there.

_DSC_8433_zpspznh0xri.jpg

And more bits, which are fated to remain eternally apart, as frankly, it's way too difficult for me. There's also an etched barrel cooling jacket and front piece, but they are still on fret, because I am not insane. Not yet, anyway.

_DSC_8436_zpsicrbigwy.jpg

More later, when the engine arrives and I have an idea of what is going to be needed.

Edited by Rob G
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  • 2 weeks later...

Update: Not much to say...

Nothing much has happened here, still waiting for the resin engine to arrive. I have had a little good news, in that an Eduard pilots and ground crew set, as well a resin WW1 pilot by PJ Productions arrived from Hannants while I was at work this week. So I can now start looking at little plastic men and planning who will be getting a starring role in the forthcoming melo-diorama. (See what I did there?)

Apart from that, nada. More when I have more.

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