Best 1/48 Hurricane IIa?

[k5054nz]

Hi all,

I'd like to build Battle of France and Battle of Britain veteran P3351, formerly based in New Zealand but now in France:

(my photo, taken Wanaka 2006)

Many, better pics at Airliners.net!

Which kit gives the best OOB option for this style of airframe, armament, prop etc? I'm aware of Hasegawa, Italeri and Airfix.

I'm nowhere near as au fait with Hurri marks as Spitfire and P-40, so I could really do with some help lest I pick the wrong one!

Edited April 24, 2022 by k5054nz
fixed photo links

[Work In Progress]

That particular Hurricane started life as a I, and following major crash damage was rebuilt by the factory as a IIa.

I don't think anyone's ever done a Hurri IIa in 1/48. Generally they either kit the 4x20mm cannon IIc, or the IId with its big anti-tank 40mm cannon

So, if I am right about the absence of a 'native' IIa kit in 1/48, I would consider two ways of doing it.

The easy but expensive way to do it is all Hasegawa. If you can find a I kit and a IIc (also available more cheaply in a Revell Germany box) then you need to use most of the II kit, with the wings off the I. The I kit is expensive because it has not been released for many years and it highly sought-after.

Hobbycraft and (possibly?) Hasegawa at various times produced kits which were labelled as the 12-gun IIb, I can't remember whether Hobbycraft got this right - I suspect from memory (it's 20 years since I built it) that their kit was actually a IIC in terms of panel lines, so would have needed a fair bit of work to make an accurate A or B wing out of the kit. I might be wrong about Hasegawa producing a dedicated IIb kit, but if they did, and you can find one, then all you would have to do is delete all sign of the outer gun bays.

If you are REALLY lucky you might find the Hasegawa "Croix de Lorraine" boxing, which contains a I kit with an additional II nose.
I understand that the wing on this kit has the outer two gun bay ammo panels (making it in fact a 12-gun Mk.IIb wing). These have to be removed to make your IIa.

A much cheaper way to do it would by by cross-kitting a Hobbycraft IIc with the wings from an Airfix I. You will also need a II tailwheel from somewhere (Aeroclub used to do one in white metal) as the Hobbycraft kit incorrectly supplied the simple I tailwheel

[Jon Kunac-Tabinor]

hi - well as it was rebuilt as a MkIIa, you need a model with the longer MKII nose, so that either means finding a hasegawa Mk IIb or even a MKIIa, but they are OOP and still fetch reasonable money on Ebay. Or you could convert a cannon winged IIc - which are easier to find , or theres the Italeri one of course. Italeri are showing a IIb as a future release, so that might be easier to do.

Just to clarify here MK IIa - 4 .303 in each wing, MKIIb - 6 x.303 in each wing ( 4 in normal place, plus 2 more further outboard). MkIIc 2 x 20mm cannon in each wing

All the models have some 'problems' ( nothing too disastrous that you couldnt live with though), which Troy Smith can give you more info on, but can be built up into nice replicas.

You could of course build P3351 as a MK I as originally built for a proper BoF/ BoB replica, rather than the warbird she is now. So you could use an Italeri Mk 1 for this - though you might need a new prop depending on what she was delivered with, or even the Airfix MkI which is a bit long in the tooth but still builds well, and is pretty accurate.

Cheers

Jonners

Knowing Troy will correct any faults in my text too!!

[Max Headroom]

I've not rivet counted so can't tell if she does in fact retain the Mk. II nose or whether it was shortened back to Mk.I status. You need to check the length of the nose panels immediately forward of the windscreen for that. (Quick check for you is 3 x fasteners for a I and 4 x for a II/IV).

Even if it has been modded back to a I, it retains the knuckled Mk. II tail wheel.

Also, is it me, or do the colours on the warbird seem a tad light?

Trevor

[Work In Progress]

It does not have a Mark I nose.

[Guest]

Troy Smith is the go to guy on this one. He pointed out to me the differences in upper wing panels and how they were different depending on the type of armament used/model of Hurricane. If it is not a big deal than ignore it but a MkIIc will have different panels than a Mk IId or Mk IIb. I have two Hasegawa Sea Hurricanes and three different Hasegawa Hurricane land based models. I have built the Hobby Craft Mk IIc and it is a nice kit but the wing panels on the Hasegawas are all wrong on each kit for the particular aircraft they are to represent as they are for the HC MkIId. Contact Troy, he is exceptionally helpful and an all around great guy.

Cheers

[AWFK10]

Hobbycraft and (possibly?) Hasegawa at various times produced kits which were labelled as the 12-gun IIb, I can't remember whether Hobbycraft got this right - I suspect from memory (it's 20 years since I built it) that their kit was actually a IIC in terms of panel lines, so would have needed a fair bit of work to make an accurate A or B wing out of the kit.

I seem to remember - likewise about 20 years ago - buying a Hobbycraft boxing purporting to be a IIb, and finding that it was indeed actually a IIc.

[Max Headroom]

......and if it's anything like the Hobbycraft Seafire XV, it will have been 'inspired' by its Airfix equivalent to the point of total interchangeability of parts.

Trevor

ps another vote for Troy as Mr Hurricane

[Troy Smith]

Hi

If you are based in NZ, from what you post/user name it seems reasonable, then I'd look in Japanese or Hong Kong hobby shops for a Hasegawa IIB boxing.

Hase did two wings for their Hurricane, the B - 12 gun wing, and used this in their MkI kits with instructions to sand off outer gun panels.

Boxings that will work are , from

http://modelingmadness.com/splfeat/kr/has48b.htm

09066

JT66

Mk IIb

Trop

A,B,C,E,G,J,K,Lx2,P,Q,R,X,Zx2

09510

Mk IIb

‘Eagle Squadron’

A,B,C,D,G,J,K,Lx2,P,Q,R,S,V,X

09562

Mk I/II

‘Croix de Lorraine’

A,B,C,E,G,J,K,Lx2,P,Q,R,S,T,V,W,X

all have correct wing and nose. No Other kits do. The only alternate is to find someone who did the Croix De Lorraine boxing as a MkI, and use the spare II nose

Alternately it's the world of conversions. It's not that hard, can post detail if needed.

Overall, OOB, the Hase kits I list are your best option. Assume the decals are junk.

I'm a bit of a Hurricane Anorak, so what bugs me may not bother you, so ask what you are aiming for and I'll try to help.

Note the Airfix is a MkI, and Italeri is riddled with silly faults..

One alternate is to build the above plane as a mkI, as it was once, it's serialed as a MkI, when it was rebuilt as a IIA it got a new serial, and is flown in those colours.

cheers

T

PS the Hobbycraft OOB the box is a IIC wing. Yes, based on Airfix.. The kit with least faults OOB is still the hase kit.

[woody37]

I've just built the 'Crois de Loraine' limited edition kit which has both cannon and 303 gun parts - you can make a Mk.I or IIa or b from the kit if you can get hold of one of them

[k5054nz]

Thanks folks, much appreciated! As I'm a bit odd I plan to build her as a warbird, rather than as in-service.

Thank you very, very much for all the pointers and hints! And yes, I am in Kiwiland.

[k5054nz]

On 5/31/2014 at 4:41 AM, Troy Smith said:

Hi

If you are based in NZ, from what you post/user name it seems reasonable, then I'd look in Japanese or Hong Kong hobby shops for a Hasegawa IIB boxing.

Hase did two wings for their Hurricane, the B - 12 gun wing, and used this in their MkI kits with instructions to sand off outer gun panels.

Boxings that will work are [...]

Belated thanks to Troy in particular for this info! Unless there have been developments in the last eight years(!!) I presume I'll still need to hunt down a Hasegawa kit for this subject?

 

A couple of additional photos of my subject P3351 from Warbirds Over Wanaka 2004 by my father Dave Yates:

Oh dear, how did that get in there? 😁 Sixteen year-old Zac with P3351, my second airshow seeing her and my first ever Warbirds Over Wanaka.

 

[Troy Smith]

26 minutes ago, k5054nz said:

Unless there have been developments in the last eight years(!!) I presume I'll still need to hunt down a Hasegawa kit for this subject?

Arma Hobby are doing a 48th Mk.IIC this year.  Since in 72nd they did a IIC, and then a IIB, I suspect that a IIB kit will follow. 

Basically with those two wings,  you cover the vast majority of Mk.II production, which is the majority of Hurricane production, and conversion to a IIa or a IID or Mk.IV are do-able with 'some modelling skill' 

 

If you have waited 8 years, I suggest waiting a bit longer, as their 72nd kits are 'best in scale' for the versions they do,  and Arma listen to input, and they do read here,  so while the 72nd had some little glitches which the 48th should not.

 

HTH

T

[MilneBay]

Some years ago now I did a IIA by taking the old Airfix 1/48 kit cutting the nose off and grafting a spare nose piece from the Hasegawa MkII. It took some effort but I'm still not happy with it as I managed to cant the nose up just a tad which isn't noticeable if it's on its own however in a line of Hurricane versions it stands out. Might do another at some stage.  

[Grey Beema]

Later this year I’m going to try grafting the Airfix 1/48 Sea Hurricane rear underside fuselage insert into the Hasegawa 1/48 Hurricane IIB to create a Sea Hurricane IIB (I’ll be tapping Troy for guidance on that one)...

[Troy Smith]

12 hours ago, MilneBay said:

Some years ago now I did a IIA by taking the old Airfix 1/48 kit cutting the nose off and grafting a spare nose piece from the Hasegawa MkII.

You can do the stretch with 2mm x 1mm plastic strip.

 

see https://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/235077619-airfix-hurricane-iia-in-148th-gaffa-tape-here-we-come/#elControls_3774132_menu

 

But you still need a new carb intake and deeper radiator.

The carb intake is easier, as it has a rear faring,  and I think maybe a leftover Spitfire air intake maybe useful here.

 

the rad is a bit trickier,  and is a work in progress.  The depth is added at the top, and it changes the rear angle.

 

 

Note the drawings say the air intake moves back 3 inches,  but this is because of the rear fairing,  as the air intake is at the rear of the engine and is next to the main spar

The fairing on the Birmingham Mk.IV is missing, so you can see the back of the air intake

Hawker Hurricane  - P3395 Think Tank 052 by touluru, on Flickr

 

The flickr series has some great shots of the deeper radiator, which also has a circular core

Hawker Hurricane  - P3395 Think Tank 049 by touluru, on Flickr

 

AFAIK, despite some claims, the Mk.II and IV radiator are the same depth, 

 

 

 

5 hours ago, Grey Beema said:

Later this year I’m going to try grafting the Airfix 1/48 Sea Hurricane rear underside fuselage insert into the Hasegawa 1/48 Hurricane IIB to create a Sea Hurricane IIB (I’ll be tapping Troy for guidance on that one)...

 

This is a really good idea, as it allows you to fix the Hasgawa belly panel issue as well, making the fuselage a bit slab sided. 

Note, the Hasegawa underside is a little too wide and flat.

It's easy to remove, and you can fix the slab sides by cutting a slot in the wing root rear, and bending the Hase fuselage in, you slightly overbend and then it keep the new shape.  The Airfix belly the fits.   You do then need to fix the overdone Hasegawa fuselage ribbing.

I've done this but not photographed it.

 

Note, the Sea Hurricanes with B wings are IIRC, all Canadian built, and these have a different radiator intake shape, 

see the blue outline compared to the red

 

I presume the Canadian is just based on a modified Mk.I shape,  and as they are interchangeable, didn't really matter from and has not been noted otherwise.

see https://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/235086563-hurricane-radiators-is-there-a-tropical-or-later-type-on-the-mkii-and-iv-and-is-there-a-different-canadian-inlet-shape/

 

which is well worth a read for discussion on this. 

 

HTH

 

[MilneBay]

9 hours ago, Troy Smith said:

You can do the stretch with 2mm x 1mm plastic strip.

 

see https://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/235077619-airfix-hurricane-iia-in-148th-gaffa-tape-here-we-come/#elControls_3774132_menu

 

But you still need a new carb intake and deeper radiator.

The carb intake is easier, as it has a rear faring,  and I think maybe a leftover Spitfire air intake maybe useful here.

 

the rad is a bit trickier,  and is a work in progress.  The depth is added at the top, and it changes the rear angle.

 

 

Note the drawings say the air intake moves back 3 inches,  but this is because of the rear fairing,  as the air intake is at the rear of the engine and is next to the main spar

The fairing on the Birmingham Mk.IV is missing, so you can see the back of the air intake

Hawker Hurricane  - P3395 Think Tank 052 by touluru, on Flickr

 

The flickr series has some great shots of the deeper radiator, which also has a circular core

Hawker Hurricane  - P3395 Think Tank 049 by touluru, on Flickr

 

AFAIK, despite some claims, the Mk.II and IV radiator are the same depth, 

 

 

 

 

This is a really good idea, as it allows you to fix the Hasgawa belly panel issue as well, making the fuselage a bit slab sided. 

Note, the Hasegawa underside is a little too wide and flat.

It's easy to remove, and you can fix the slab sides by cutting a slot in the wing root rear, and bending the Hase fuselage in, you slightly overbend and then it keep the new shape.  The Airfix belly the fits.   You do then need to fix the overdone Hasegawa fuselage ribbing.

I've done this but not photographed it.

 

Note, the Sea Hurricanes with B wings are IIRC, all Canadian built, and these have a different radiator intake shape, 

see the blue outline compared to the red

 

I presume the Canadian is just based on a modified Mk.I shape,  and as they are interchangeable, didn't really matter from and has not been noted otherwise.

see https://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/235086563-hurricane-radiators-is-there-a-tropical-or-later-type-on-the-mkii-and-iv-and-is-there-a-different-canadian-inlet-shape/

 

which is well worth a read for discussion on this. 

 

HTH

 

 

Nice details Troy. Useful for when I bite the bullet and do another. 

 

It's a pity that the IIA hasn't been done as a discrete kit.

[Troy Smith]

14 hours ago, MilneBay said:

It's a pity that the IIA hasn't been done as a discrete kit.

well, it has..... The old Monogram kit is basically a IIA.....  

 

I know... not very helpful.     

 

Be interesting to see how Arma Hobby work the kit family.   Converting a B wing to and A is easy enough depending on surface detail,  which is how Hasegawa approached this.

If Hasegawa had not messed up the fuselage fabric, and that under fuselage join,  it would be a really good kit. 

I think I have a reasonable fix for the fabric, just need to do it again on a new kit and document this.  

 

A couple of other tweaks that help the Hase kit.   

 

Wingtips, they should basically look flat head on, like very thing triangle, not curved.  Easy to fix though.  

 

Upper cowling line, too flat, again, easy fix,  get cowling half,  hold it so you thumbs are inside, flex the centre up, over bend it and it will relax to keep the new curve.  Creates a gap in the upper line, but that  is a simple job to fill.

 

Refer to photos, note some basically new build warbirds now have problems with the upper cowling contours, but these post date the Hase kit.

 

[k5054nz]

On 4/27/2022 at 1:22 AM, Troy Smith said:

Refer to photos, note some basically new build warbirds now have problems with the upper cowling contours, but these post date the Hase kit.

That's where my being a warbird modeller (such as for P3351) comes in handy - no shortage of reference materials!

Edited April 29, 2022 by k5054nz