Photo Etch Queries and Pointers Needed

[Dunc2610]

So, for the Bloody Hundredth build, I've purchased all the phot etch under the sun. My experience of photo etch is seat belts. 

 

Having had it all delivered today I realise some of it is incredibly small, so my first question is, what to people use to pick it up and place/move it in to position as something tells me with tweezers, it'll ping off never to be seen again? 

 

Secondly, should I invest in one of the little bending 'machines' I've seen for them, so it make folding it easier than say square edge pliers? 

 

Thirdly, in the following pics some of the elements that aren't painted/printed have very specific discoloration, why is this, does it indicate anything specific, as there's no mention of painting colours or this discoloration in Eduards instructions? 

 

 

Lastly, does the bare etch require any special priming over say, Mr Surface? 

 

Any other tips would be much appreciated when dealing with this stuff, it's looking quite intimidating, but I very much wanting to try my (shakey) hands at it! 

[Black Knight]

Picking up, gem pickers which have a slightly sticky rubber point or wax pencils which have sticky bees wax in them

[dnl42]

Yeah, tweezers are listed as a sub-orbital launch vehicle for small PE bits (small plastic bits, too). I am always relieved when the fret has extras for the smallest parts.

 

A bending device is a worthwhile investment. Depending on your needs, a rolling set is also useful. I have a Small Shop Bug for the former as well as their discontinued rolling set. There are other good brands for both. It's rare that I don't use the folding tool on a model with PE. It's rare that I do use the rolling set, but when I do, it is oh so easy...

 

Some of my older PE has such discolorations. I believe it's just a manufacturing artifact, but I just ignore it in any event. TBH, I'm not a big fan of pre-painted PE as "they" never use the same color I used for the rest of the cockpit.

 

I brush Mr.Metal Primer-R on PE after cleaning it carefully with IPA to remove contaminants. I may airbrush Mr.Surfacer after depending on the phase of the moon. BUT, complete all folding and/or PE assembly before any coatings.

 

Don't feel that you must use every bit of PE that's provided. I've definitely left of some bits because they were too small or too little reward for the effort. And yes, in some cases I "didn't use" the PE because I lost it all to low earth orbits.

[Mark Harmsworth]

What they said - but to answer:

On 14/08/2024 at 19:46, Dunc2610 said:

what to people use to pick it up and place/move it in to position

 

I often use a blob of blu-tac on the end of a cocktail stick (not possible to have too many cocktail sticks).

 

Then rarely I'll use tweezers and regret it instantly as there is a 'click' followed by a 'ping' as the piece of p.e. hits something somewhere. Which then follows one of the golden rules of modelling - you won't find what you've lost until you no longer need it.  Common theme here I think.

 

Good luck

Mark

[flyboy2610]

On 8/16/2024 at 5:22 AM, Mark Harmsworth said:

Which then follows one of the golden rules of modelling - you won't find what you've lost until you no longer need it.  Common theme here I think.

 

Good luck

Mark

Which is generally the day after you've purchased a replacement.

[Rob de Bie]

On 8/14/2024 at 8:46 PM, Dunc2610 said:

Any other tips would be much appreciated when dealing with this stuff, it's looking quite intimidating, but I very much wanting to try my (shakey) hands at it! 

 

I have one tip, in case you want to use CA glue to attach the parts. In my experience the adhesion is rather bad, very frustrating. But it can be improved greatly by first etching the part(s). That sounds like a lot of work, but it can be done in seconds.

 

What I do is heat up a small quantity of vinegar in the microwave, until it nearly boils (or boils). Then throw the part(s) in, and let the hot (read: very reactive) vinegar etch the part a few seconds. Drain the vinegar, the part itself will dry quickly because it's hot, and your ready to glue with CA.

 

Rob

[DaddyO]

For what its worth I'll agree with the above - tweezers can be 'exciting'. Being a cheapskate I normally use a bit of white-tac or similar on the end of a cocktail stick as a pick up stick (or a bit of saliva on the end of a cocktail stick for really tiny pieces) Often the tiddlers are not worth the effort and are better represented with stretched sprue or paint (I've got a PART set for an Albatros I think in 1/72 where the compass is made up of a stack of circular PE )🤪

 

Don't feel you have to use supergue which is a pain in itself. White glue (PVA) works well or even varnish depending on the location (I'd use glue in high handling areas such as the side of a fuselage where it might be picked up several times during construction)

 

Obviously for belts and the like anneal the part with heat to make it easier to conform naturally (I use a lighter; heat till red and then quench by plunging in water)

 

Don't fret it if it disappears or you decide not to use it after I won't tell if you don't 😉

 

Paul

[dnl42]

Excellent points on glue and PE. I also use CA for PE to PE joints and PVA glues for PE to plastic or resin. The reason I use PVA is that its more flexible--this is most important in a surface bond, for example, a PE plate glued on plastic. The importance stems from the CA's low shear strength, and the different thermal expansion rates of metal and plastic. Over time, a CA shear bond can fracture, causing the part to loosen or fall off.

 

Another possibility for PE to clear (and clear to clear) parts is UV-cured glues. I have a set of UV-cured varnish used for fly fishing. The stuff is crystal clear and robust. Position the parts, shine the UV light on the joint, et voilà! BUT, you can only use it when the glue/varnish is fully visible. Like PVA, is retains some flexibility.

 

15 minutes ago, DaddyO said:

I've got a PART set for an Albatros I think in 1/72 where the compass is made up of a stack of circular PE

Yeah, they're famous for very small parts! I've learned to not expect to use all of their PE sets. I've struggled with some of their 1/48 stack-ups--I can't imagine success with something nearly half that size! 😱

[Rob de Bie]

22 hours ago, DaddyO said:

I've got a PART set for an Albatros I think in 1/72 where the compass is made up of a stack of circular PE 🤪

 

I love PART for that very reason! They sometimes design crazy parts. Eduard on the other hand is so very predictable, so boring.. If there's a choice, I will always take the PART set.

Rob

[Dunc2610]

On 23/08/2024 at 15:24, Rob de Bie said:

 

I have one tip, in case you want to use CA glue to attach the parts. In my experience the adhesion is rather bad, very frustrating. But it can be improved greatly by first etching the part(s). That sounds like a lot of work, but it can be done in seconds.

 

What I do is heat up a small quantity of vinegar in the microwave, until it nearly boils (or boils). Then throw the part(s) in, and let the hot (read: very reactive) vinegar etch the part a few seconds. Drain the vinegar, the part itself will dry quickly because it's hot, and your ready to glue with CA.

 

Rob

Would I be right in saying you can't 'etch' or rather wouldn't, pre-painted PE? 

[Dunc2610]

On 23/08/2024 at 15:45, DaddyO said:

For what its worth I'll agree with the above - tweezers can be 'exciting'. Being a cheapskate I normally use a bit of white-tac or similar on the end of a cocktail stick as a pick up stick (or a bit of saliva on the end of a cocktail stick for really tiny pieces) Often the tiddlers are not worth the effort and are better represented with stretched sprue or paint (I've got a PART set for an Albatros I think in 1/72 where the compass is made up of a stack of circular PE )🤪

 

Don't feel you have to use supergue which is a pain in itself. White glue (PVA) works well or even varnish depending on the location (I'd use glue in high handling areas such as the side of a fuselage where it might be picked up several times during construction)

 

Obviously for belts and the like anneal the part with heat to make it easier to conform naturally (I use a lighter; heat till red and then quench by plunging in water)

 

Don't fret it if it disappears or you decide not to use it after I won't tell if you don't 😉

 

Paul

 

On 23/08/2024 at 16:07, dnl42 said:

Excellent points on glue and PE. I also use CA for PE to PE joints and PVA glues for PE to plastic or resin. The reason I use PVA is that its more flexible--this is most important in a surface bond, for example, a PE plate glued on plastic. The importance stems from the CA's low shear strength, and the different thermal expansion rates of metal and plastic. Over time, a CA shear bond can fracture, causing the part to loosen or fall off.

 

Another possibility for PE to clear (and clear to clear) parts is UV-cured glues. I have a set of UV-cured varnish used for fly fishing. The stuff is crystal clear and robust. Position the parts, shine the UV light on the joint, et voilà! BUT, you can only use it when the glue/varnish is fully visible. Like PVA, is retains some flexibility.

 

Yeah, they're famous for very small parts! I've learned to not expect to use all of their PE sets. I've struggled with some of their 1/48 stack-ups--I can't imagine success with something nearly half that size! 😱

Is PVA best used to attach PE to kit plastic? Have used CA before and has been said it doesn't adhere well unless you sit holding it for a number of what seems like hours! And can you heat pre painted PE? 

[Troy Smith]

1 hour ago, Dunc2610 said:

Is PVA best used to attach PE to kit plastic? Have used CA before and has been said it doesn't adhere well unless you sit holding it for a number of what seems like hours!

superglue needs moisture to set,  so can not always go off.  You can get 'kickers' or accelerators,  usually in a spray, but you can spray some into a container and apply with a fine brush.  

You can buy ones blessed with modeller fairy dust,  but this is same stuff

https://www.screwfix.com/p/no-nonsense-mitre-adhesive-200ml/280kh

the SG in this is quite viscous as well. 

 

PVA will work,  I suggest getting some high end PVA, I use Wudcare 5 Minute Fast Grab,  simply as I have it for DIY use and its strong, waterproof and has a quick initial set, great for canopies as well. 

For canopies apply with fine brush, clean up with water on fine brush, but any similar type PVA will do the same job.

 

 

1 hour ago, Dunc2610 said:

 

And can you heat pre painted PE? 

it will wreck the paint

 

HTH

[dnl42]

4 hours ago, Dunc2610 said:

Would I be right in saying you can't 'etch' or rather wouldn't, pre-painted PE? 

You can only attach pre-painted PE.

[Dunc2610]

19 hours ago, dnl42 said:

You can only attach pre-painted PE.

Just picking up on this, can you not glue in unpainted PE to be painted with the rest of interior for example? 

[Black Knight]

You can attach painted or non-painted etch, then you can paint either to match your own paint job. You are not obliged to keep the colours on pre-painted etch