1/32 Border Models Lancaster Mk.I - G for George

[Peter Browne]

Down the track, I'm looking at modelling G for George, a Mk.I (early or late?) crewed by RAAF personnel.

 

https://www.awm.gov.au/visit/exhibitions/bigthingsinstore/lancaster

 

I assume the Mk.I can be built from the kit, after all it says Mk.I/Mk.III on the box.  The only issue is whether G was an early or late (and what the differences were)

 

I would need to source Decals for George.  AFAIK, Kits World are the only maker:

 

https://spruebrothers.com/ksw132051-1-32-kits-world-decals-avro-lancaster-b-iii-g-for-george/

 

Any experience or comments on those decals?

 

Anything else?

 

 

[SafetyDad]

You really need to spend time reviewing the Wingleader Photo Archive 5 on early Lancasters. W4783 was one of the fifth production batch, manufactured between September 1942 and May 1943. The Wingleader volume has a contemporary photo of W4783. This confirms that fuselage windows were fitted and that the trailing aerial was moved to the port wing leading edge. Also early needle props and faired windscreen de icing pipes. Of course this aircraft still exists at the AWM so airframe details should be relatively easy to confirm. 
 

HTH

 

SD

[Work In Progress]

Definitely a B.I, because Rolls-Royce rather than Packard engined. Did a lot of service during WW2 and went through a lot of maintenance and will have been repaired and tweaked and modified in many small ways, so "what did it look like", even if restricted to WW2 service, has to be qualified by the counter-question "on what date?" 

 

To continue SD's thought, if you are not hell-bent on portraying it on a particular date then; given that it still exists in good shape, I would go with photos of it in the AWM where it has been on display since 2003 following restoration

Edited February 15 by Work In Progress

[Peter Browne]

Mmm the Kits World KW132051 has the 'G' for the nose in red, without the white border.

 

 

 

Also the bomb tally markings aren't correct

 

Looks like I will need to fix those with some fine pens of sorts....or make my own decals for those items.  See if I can get some high res images from the AWM.

 

[Peter Roberts]

They also missed the little dull red swastikas on the tips of the spinners. This a/c suffered major damage when a bomb load exploded on the airfield, and it received a whole new tail unit, I think from just behind the upper turret, but not 100% sure. Sorry, don’t know the date for that. There was also provision for a ventral turret which was removed and blanked off in a fairly crude way

Edited February 16 by Peter Roberts

[Peter Browne]

Another image at the AWM showing the G in red with no white border.  No 'Steady Here' markings.

 

 

And the 'Steady Here' marking is absent on many of the WW2 photos of George, like this one of the starboard:

 

 

and the port side:

 

 

An earlier photo judging by the smaller number of bomb tally rows.  Apparently taken December 1943. Cant make out if G has white borders...but it doesn't look like it.  No 'Steady Here' marking visible.

 

https://www.awm.gov.au/collection/C19560

 

 

An earlier photo, only four bomb rows.  G looks like it is in plain red, no border.  So this (1942?), and the one above in 1943, would possibly be useful snapshots in time for using the Kits World KW132051 decals (which don't have the white border on the G).    Just need to remove some of the bomb tally markings from the decals.  Don't know what other differences there would be for a 1943 version of George.

 

Note 'Steady Here' markings at this time.

 

[leyreynolds]

Note that it also has stiffening strips on the wing uppersurfaces - if memory serves something to do with the skin thickness.

[jenko]

https://www.460squadronraaf.com/home.html

 

Thought this might help.

 

Worked with a guy who was a mid upper with this squadron. Was very interesting to chat with,

 

Dick

[Peter Browne]

23 minutes ago, leyreynolds said:

Note that it also has stiffening strips on the wing uppersurfaces - if memory serves something to do with the skin thickness.

 

Well that is interesting. The plot thickens on this very interesting aircraft.   This was posted on your thread:

 

Quote

Those strakes on the AWM Lancaster, G-George, were a short lived solution to the early engine mount weaknesses suffered by the first batch of Lancasters off the production line. The second production Lancaster (really a Manchester that had been converted on the production line) had its No.1 engine fall off upon take-off from Boscombe Down and, following its repair, then had a mainwheel fall off as the gear was lowered on another flight soon afterwards! The first dozen or so Lancasters also had their wingtips snap upwards when flying loaded - many snapped off completely, and all three 'teething problems' were quickly solved by modifications introduced on the production lines. G-George was ordered as a Manchester but converted to Lancaster configuration on the production line, hence the wing strakes which have been on the aircraft since she was built. She is the oldest surviving Lancaster airframe and the only one left with the strakes.

https://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/235103840-lancaster-chordwise-reinforcing-straps-on-the-upper-wings/

[Peter Browne]

Photo from 1944 after George was retired and sent to Australia to raise war bonds.  The strakes are just visible on the port wing.

 

 

These photos clearly show the strakes on the port wing behind the outboard engine.

 

 

 

 

Plasticard would be an obvious choice to replicate the strakes.  Though getting the curvature right might be a problem?

 

But it would be good to know if the strakes were added on the production line, or if, as suggested in that other thread, that they were added on B1s with high flying hours and landings - George would have easily met that criteria... 

 

 

[Work In Progress]

No problem at all getting that curvature out of a bit of microstrip, just attach them all at the front, let them dry; then attach at the rear, let them dry; and then touch a tiny drop of liquid cement in the middle so it wicks along the remaining length

[Peter Browne]

Re the ventral turret, or mid-under defensive gun position, were these part of the initial production of Mk.I Lancasters?

So for George, as indicted by @Peter Roberts, this was blanked off and as stated by AWM:

 

Quote

When first constructed W4783 was fitted with a mid-under defensive gun position, which would have required an eighth crewman. There is no evidence that this position was retained when the aircraft entered operational service. A timber blanking panel was fitted in the mounting equipped with a flare shoot.

 

According to a thread on Quora:

 

Quote

The FN-64 was omitted from all but early production B.I bombers and the B.II prototypes. The space vacated was later used to accommodate H2S navigational radar.

https://www.quora.com/Did-Lancaster-bombers-often-fly-with-no-front-gun-turret-in-WW2

 

George was never fitted with the H2S.

 

What does the Border kit have there?

 

Are there any photos of that area for George?  I have added that in my photos request to the AWM...

[Biggles81]

Note also the AR G codes varied slightly over time (in fact George entered service as UV G). They were removed when George was refurbished when being prepped for return to Australia in 1944. When it left Prestwick and for many years after it did not carry the AR G codes. In another twist if you wish to model it, it is worth deciding if you wish to depict it before or after the rear fuselage and tail were replaced (with mismatching paint demarcation) after being damaged when a nearby Lancaster blew up during bomb loading. Look closely at various photos for details.

 

The aircraft was also completely restored and repainted in the early 2000s to replace components suffering from age. Externally repainted based on original photos. Earlier shots of George on display in the old aeroplane hall show it as repainted by the RAAF for the AWM in the 1970s.

 

Edited February 19 by Biggles81

[Peter Browne]

12 hours ago, Biggles81 said:

Note also the AR G codes varied slightly over time (in fact George entered service as UV G). They were removed when George was refurbished when being prepped for return to Australia in 1944. When it left Prestwick and for many years after it did not carry the AR G codes. In another twist if you wish to model it, it is worth deciding if you wish to depict it before or after the rear fuselage and tail were replaced (with mismatching paint demarcation) after being damaged when a nearby Lancaster blew up during bomb loading. Look closely at various photos for details.

 

The aircraft was also completely restored and repainted in the early 2000s to replace components suffering from age. Externally repainted based on original photos. Earlier shots of George on display in the old aeroplane hall show it as repainted by the RAAF for the AWM in the 1970s.

 

 

Thanks for the info.  Do you know of any photos pre rear fuselage and tail replacement?  Or with UV G codes?

[Peter Browne]

Found one:

 

https://www.awm.gov.au/collection/C50652

[Peter Browne]

You can sort of see a demarcation in the painting on the rear fuselage in this photo:

 

 

And in this one with Prime Minister John Curtin prior to flight to Australia, the insignia appears further towards the tail, with the serial W4783 forward of the code, instead of aft as shown above:

 

 

 

I'm thinking of depicting George in December 1943, as shown below with the 'G' nose art in full red, no border, and the 7 bomb tally rows, instead of the 9 rows she/he ended up with.

 

[wmcgill]

1 hour ago, Peter Browne said:

And in this one with Prime Minister John Curtin prior to flight to Australia, the insignia appears further towards the tail, with the serial W4783 forward of the code, instead of aft as shown above:

 

Note that the starboard wing is on the right of this photo, with AR-G very close, and the starboard tailplane in the top left corner of the photo. The serial W4783 is in it's normal position.

[Peter Browne]

38 minutes ago, wmcgill said:

Note that the starboard wing is on the right of this photo, with AR-G very close, and the starboard tailplane in the top left corner of the photo. The serial W4783 is in it's normal position.

 

Ahh, I was seeing the wing as the tailplane! Like flaps on the tailplane?...silly Ta..