Great Eastern Railways 10t Vent Van

[Mjwomack]

Alright, I'm in; with this

 

 

 

Moving into n gauge model railways, one of the more perverse rules I set myself was the all the wagons had to be kit built (seems a good idea at the time). I'm not sure why a firm based at Bideford has put an East Anglian wagon in it's limited range but I want to encourage them.

 

I've already built their GE stores room which was 'frustrating' but with some lovely detailing as laser cut allows for. I might go to the railway shed and photograph it sometime. Meanwhile, I've remembered why I stalled on building this. What colour?! Precision Paints say the ends should be dark GE wagon grey and the sides light wagon grey. Except looking at the ones at MANGAPPS, (other museums are available but this must the most loveable and eccentric East Anglian one) it's not that simple.

 

 

Light grey all over

 

 

Dark grey all over.

 

Pondering this, but wary of going against Precision Paints who do a serious amount of research, I'm figuring light grey if it has vents on the ends, and dark if it doesn't. It seems to me this would have sense in a crowded goods yard for knowing which loads to go in which wagon.

 

So, I've taken the lunge and ordered the light grey paint and eagerly await the post everyday now.

 

For @Enzo the Magnificent and @Paul821 completely unfitted as 'befits' such an old wagn so no fiddly underframe to worry about- just got to get it square and true.

 

For @JeroenS, sorry but you're not going to find this on Scalemates!

[ColonelKrypton]

57 minutes ago, Mjwomack said:

What colour?!

 

What an interesting observation on differences in colour.  My first thought would have been that the paint on the ends would have spent more time in a shaded area between two cars and would thus be less weather beaten than that on the sides. However, you comment on colours for cars with vents on the end and those without does make sense, a simple color coding to help those doing the hard work shifting the cars and their loads. We often forget some of those simple ways of working from our past. I like trains but am far from knowledgeable on the subject, even more so for UK subject matter. 

 

An interesting subject, in an interesting scale, built in an interesting way. What's not to like? 

 

cheers, Graham

 

[Mjwomack]

2 hours ago, ColonelKrypton said:

would thus be less weather beaten than that on the sides

Oh yes! Then there's the whole question of weathering and fading- I'll be going for tired overall look. Staying the the Great Eastern railway it turns out that the blue pigment they used on their locomotive paints at the beginning of the 20 century were VERY effected by sulphur dioxide, of which there was no shortage in Lonfon's atmosphere at the time. This led many model makers to think for a long time that there was Cambridge blue and Stratford blue (East London) when in fact there wasn't- it was purely weathering.

 

2 hours ago, ColonelKrypton said:

We often forget some of those simple ways of working from our pas

 

I kid you not, on the earliest railways there was a man (it was a man's world) who's job was 'knocker up' because not many people could afford a clock in the house, let alone in the bedroom he was sent on his rounds early in the morning to wake people up for their shift!

 

A post that lasted longer was the wheel tapper- he literally went through the goods yard tapping wagon wheels with a hammer; if they didn't ring true he flagged the wagon for a detailed inspection. Some basically if the funds didn't kill you, or the coal dust, you could go deaf whacking wheels all day! As a retired railwayman, I'm well aware (and grateful) that we get good pensions because frankly we weren't expected to last long. Oh it was grim back then for sure.

[halfwit]

I'm pretty sure that the Great Western had a woodwork shop at one of their yards, purely to make wooden legs for unlucky shunters.

 

Interested to see how this turns out. Are all the parts laser cut, or are there any etches or castings in the box?

[Mjwomack]

10 minutes ago, halfwit said:

Interested to see how this turns out. Are all the parts laser cut, or are there any etches or castings in the box?

It's all laser cut ultra thin wood apart from the roof which is cardboard 🤷.

[Robert Stuart]

Precision Paints different coloured ends may reflect changes over time.
If I recall correctly, at one stage, pre-grouping SECR coaches had better weather protection at the ends than along the sides.  The top coat of paint was the same colour, but looked darker at the ends because of the underlaying weather coat.

[Mjwomack]

Never has a tin off paint been so eagerly awaited; actually I expect a lot of us have been desperate for a tin paint many times over.

 

 

note I've included the ISO approved @Bobby No Mac beer bottle for an indication of size! In this case of the packaging; I know it contains lead and is classed as dangerous goods but got to have been the most carefully packaged item ever. No quibble about getting my money's worth for the P&P. And, the paint looks a really good match.

 

Photobombing in this are also the Osborns GER store that I built last year. For those familiar with the Wills Craftsman range of kits, I'm concluding that Craftsman is marketing speak for sort it yourself as I'd forgoteten how I'd had to add my own ridge tiles, rainwater good etc.

 

And retiring to alcohol there's also a Peco Ale wagon and a Fleishmann DR (not DB) wine wagon awaiting me getting back to my Run Rabbit Run box file diorama which is slated for this year's KUTA.

 

I expect everyone knows that 10t wagon means it can carry 1o tons, anyhow here's the plate off the original for something sensible in this post...

 

 

[Mjwomack]

I know it's small but it took me a long time to find my build on page 3. Meanwhile...

 

It's not all about Normal for Norfolk, there is also Curiously Suffolk, so while most people start with a chassis/ underframe and work upwards, it's not how I go about things

 

 

Actually, I wanted to see what the box van itself was like as the chassis (as long as it rolls) can be lost in grime etc. I mentioned that the store shed I did was frustrating and it's the same again this time, the vents look overscale. There were oversized as well but that was solved with a knife. As befits an armchair expert, I know nothing of laser cutting, but had assumed that a key point of it is the ability to cut very precisely so a size. Not the case with these kits. We'll find out later if the parts actually fit together, but I'm not optimistic.

 

The stanchions are also suitably curious because they are card, which although better cut than the wood doesn't handle so well.

 

I'm not rushing this because I'm hoping that the N Gauge Society Show at the NRM in May will come good with some suitable decals.

 

And for traditionalists; I'll start on the under frame soon. 

 

[PeterB]

I dug out my book on LNER waggons and found a pic matching the top one in the museum photos in overall LNER light grey though I guess it had been overpainted from the previous "lead grey" sometime after grouping. The lower pic is a bit of a mystery as the style of framing looks more like the examples of Fish Vans in the book (though it makes no claim to be exhaustive). Of course it seems to lack the ventilation slots on the sides and is not fitted but perhaps it had been converted - do they say what it actually is?

 

Pete

[Mjwomack]

12 hours ago, PeterB said:

I dug out my book on LNER waggons and found a pic matching the top one in the museum photos in overall LNER light grey though I guess it had been overpainted from the previous "lead grey" sometime after grouping. The lower pic is a bit of a mystery as the style of framing looks more like the examples of Fish Vans in the book (though it makes no claim to be exhaustive). Of course it seems to lack the ventilation slots on the sides and is not fitted but perhaps it had been converted - do they say what it actually is?

 

Pete

Is that the Peter Tatlow book (pub OPC, and probably others)? If so then I think this is based on the drawing at the foot of page 29 (fig21), with plates 55 and 56 on the next page. I suspect they may be unaware that there even is an orginal in the Essex backwaters. This would explain the NE (LNER) stickers which were missing, though that's no loss as I'm going for GER as per my source photos. Looking again at the book, I see that the rainwater run off (curved bar on roof) is there- it wasn't always on the earliest wagons, so I'll be adding that in later along the way.

[PeterB]

2 hours ago, Mjwomack said:

Is that the Peter Tatlow book (pub OPC, and probably others)? If so then I think this is based on the drawing at the foot of page 29 (fig21), with plates 55 and 56 on the next page. I suspect they may be unaware that there even is an orginal in the Essex backwaters. This would explain the NE (LNER) stickers which were missing, though that's no loss as I'm going for GER as per my source photos. Looking again at the book, I see that the rainwater run off (curved bar on roof) is there- it wasn't always on the earliest wagons, so I'll be adding that in later along the way.

Yes it is Tatlow's book. I don't know which type your model is - external or internal frames - but the top pic in the museum that you posted looks like the external framed one in plate 54 to me, in which case it is probably pretty rare according to Tatlow. The one that was puzzling me is the second pic you posted in the dark grey which has the "X" type external framing rather than just the one diagonal frame. Though I don't imagine the book shows anything like all the variations that must have existed, the only thing in it that looks like that was a fish van with gaps between the planking for ventilation and a brake pipe so I just wondered how the museum had labelled it. Of course it could have been repurposed as the book shows a cattle wagon being used for carrying fruit!

 

If you are building it as it was in GER days then Taplow would seem to suggest it was dark grey, but to be honest my knowledge of GER is pretty well non existent - did they use more than one shade of grey? As for the LNER my knowledge of truck colours is limited to light grey for unfitted and bauxite for fitted as I remember building a kit of a plywood sided van in the latter colour 40 or so years ago. As I was running OO gauge I had the PC-Pressfix sticker sheet of truck markings available which proved useful.

 

Cheers

 

Pete

Edited April 3, 2023 by PeterB

[Mjwomack]

I think some of the early wagons were 'over-engineered'- I guess they'd got fed ups with the under engineered ones falling apart hence the numerous and extravagant braces that got fitted!

 

I'm comfortable with the colour that Phoenix Precision have come up with, whether I'l be so comfortable with the infinite drying time when I've used them in the past remains to be seen. In OO gauge Oxford Rail did a GER box van a couple of years ago, Im not totally convinced about their rendiotn of the colour but for a 'mass' produced ready to run item it wasn't far adrift.

 

Anyhow everything can be put down to bleached in the weather or accumulation of grime!!

[Mjwomack]

On 3/16/2023 at 12:05 PM, Mjwomack said:

I've already built their GE stores room which was 'frustrating' but with some lovely detailing as laser cut allows for.

As I was saying!

And not helped that the instructions are wrong; they say that the sole bars (kind of the sides of the chassis) fit between the buffer beams, except they don't. They fit, with unhelpful wriggle room into the slot in the side of the sub-floor. This means that instead of a lovely even finish there's a change from smooth to the 3 ply texture. The strange blend of card and ply means that the brake lever assemblies come as card and break, as well as not fitting at all well to the chassis. The wheels do turn round (result and the brass buffers (not fitted) do look lush.

 

Upshot, was I realised I had a spare Peco underftame kit, with the added advantage of spoked wheels and a better looking finish

 

It's not going to take too much to modify the Peco under frame (bottom in picture) to single brakes on either side and get a far better effect. Probably won't change the buffers around though.

 

[halfwit]

It looks like there should be an overlay for the solebars but I can't see one in the kit contents photo. Cutting one out of card shouldn't be too difficult, but then using the Peco chassis is better still. Is this a wooden chassis prototype?

[Mjwomack]

9 hours ago, halfwit said:

It looks like there should be an overlay for the solebars but I can't see one in the kit contents photo. Cutting one out of card shouldn't be too difficult, but then using the Peco chassis is better still. Is this a wooden chassis prototype?

I got lucky- it's a metal under frame, though there's always a 'reason' to pop out and buy some more bits isn't there?😉 I'm just trying to save the economy guys.

 

Yes, a card overlay would also work but you're right there isn't one. I'm not sure if the person you wrote the instructions actually looked at the kit! Not only this 'item' but it talks of 6 axle boxes when there's 5.

 

Confident thought of ending up with a nice GER wagon body atop a Peco under frame. Somewhere I've a whole pack of 'n'Brass axle cups, but who knows where.

[Mjwomack]

On 4/2/2023 at 7:25 PM, Mjwomack said:

I'm not rushing this because I'm hoping that the N Gauge Society Show at the NRM in May will come good with some suitable decals.

 

Reality bites! Due to the train strikes, I can't get there on the Saturday and so late on the Sunday it's not worth going. Also means the Deltic rail tour is cancelled (grr).

Meanwhile back on this build, it'll be mail order for the decals at some point so I press on, especially as I've just realised what a huge GB backlog I've already got.

 

Peco chassis, trimmed down easily enough to single brake block either side, brass buffers fitted. The main disadvantage of n gauge is the clunky couplings but no way can my eye sight cope with fine scale ones.

 

 

 

Realised that the floor of the box van was far too crude so the body will be assembled straight on the chassis, weight added in anticipation.

 

Think right hand near side coupling needs straightening out- such is the power of the camera for picking things out.

[Bobby No Mac]

I like how you've adapted the beer bottle size comparison convention for N gauge 

[Mjwomack]

Underframe finished and painted up- more grime than black! 

 

 

Onto the bodywork, but first a browse of the internet to see in any GE lettering available (I very much hope so)

[Mjwomack]

This, with classic East Anglian understatement, is a tad embarrassing. Hopefully I won't be summoned by the Board of Directors of the GER up in London to explain myself. turns out I'd got a 9ft underarm kit spare and this is a 12ft one. So, much for finally making some progress on this! Anyhow, correct one on order and we'll be back shortly, or maybe 3ft longer in this case.🫣

[JeroenS]

It would be nice to see this one ... back on track. There, I said it. 

[Mjwomack]

On 6/5/2023 at 9:49 AM, JeroenS said:

It would be nice to see this one ... back on track. There, I said it. 

Yes, yes it would. but I seem to be off the rails again! Underframe kit lost in the post🫣, vendor was really quick and good about issuing a refund, but plastic in the hand is always better than money in the bank🤣

 

[Mjwomack]

Finally got a replacement under frame kit...

 

 

 

Then thought I'd better check when this GB ends, and simply put I've no chance.

Oh well.

[Robert Stuart]

The gallery closes tonight, but you could still finish this here..