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80397 (Yet Another) Heller Marcel Block MB.210
ColonelKrypton replied to ColonelKrypton's topic in Heller Classic GB
I had not noticed that before but now that you have mentioned that detail it is easier to see in many of the (few) pictures I have found. At this point my inclination is to just leave it as is. The horizontal stabilizer in the new Azur Ffrom MB.210 kit looks to be in the right place. I had noticed something there in some of the photos I have found but I was never quite sure what it was. I can not help but see it in those photos now that you have pointed it out. I also see other detail on the wing upper surface; no doubt access panels and so on. None of the three view drawings I have found for MB.210 show that stiffener or those small access panels. One my few reference for the MB.210 is Wikipedia and the remaining balance are the various pictures and drawings I have been able to uncover in my searches of various web sites. Reviewing those few pictures I have noted that there is variation in the engine cowling shape and dimensions, some being more square and can like with a moe flat profile and others with some curvature and some shorter than others. The MB.210 was powered by the Gnome Rhone 14 engine but there were several different versions of this engine that were used. The difference in length of these different engine versions was around 5 to 10 cm ( Wikipedia being my source) which likely accounts for some of the differences noted in cowl length and shape plus there were at least two different styles of exhaust manifolds, one have multiple exhaust manifolds exiting the cowling in numerous places around the cowl rear and another having one collector ring with one exhaust exit and this two accounts for some of the noted variation in size and shape of the engine cowls. It is not clear however as to which version of the MB.210 ( early, mid, late ) these various differences belong. I have not yet decided on what I will do with the engine cowlings. They do look a bit too long and I will likely do some trimming and thinning in order to make them more presentable. I am aware that there were some articles published in the mid 90's detailing the MB.210 in the French language magazine Avions but I have not been able to find these back issues. I am also aware there have been a number of good quality books published on the subject as well. It would be nice to have all of these good references on hand but the cost quickly becomes a bit too much. Limited references and uncertainty sometimes requires a bit of poetic licence. Yes, another interesting area. The Gnome Rhone 14 engines were produced in both right and left hand rotation models. Many twin engine aircraft will have one of each in order to balance out the torque effect of the engines. Looking at the pictures I have it is clear that the MB.210 has this feature and the port engine turns counter clockwise and the starboard engine clockwise each requiring their own different propellers. The props in the Heller kit provide one of each and are correct in this respect. Being a bit different shape and size is another matter and since I have no suitable replacements on hand I will make do with the kit parts. cheers, Graham -
ColonelKrypton started following Iliad design colour charts , Chocolate blocks , 2026 Spanish Civil War GB? and 1 other
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Same feeling I get when I have to explain "Murphy's Law" or that Paul McCartney was in a band before Wings. cheer, Graham
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80397 (Yet Another) Heller Marcel Block MB.210
ColonelKrypton replied to ColonelKrypton's topic in Heller Classic GB
Continuing on, much time was spent fussing over the fit of the vertical stabilizer, horizontal stabilizers, rudder and ailerons. As a young teen I would spent some time fussing over the fit of these components and then glued them in place as best as I could using good old tube cement lining up by eye and hoping for the best. I just can't do that now and the fit of these components needed cleaning and squaring up which takes time. Furthermore, I like to pin parts and as the work needed to clean and square up these various bis needed the removal of the kit locating pins, it was only natural to pin everything together, adds strength too. I use brass #8 1/2" applique / sequin pins as locators cut short, pointy side out to mark matting surfaces. Pins are made from half hard silver plated German style jewellery wire. Holes are made using a 25g hypodermic needle to make the initial locating hole and then enlarged with a suitable size drill and watchmakers four sided tapered reamer for final fitting. https://www.beadalon.com/content/choosing_the_right_german_style_wire.asp All of those surfaces except for the elevators can be "posed" in other than neutral positions if desired. However, on the ground and parked aircraft usually have their control surfaces locked in order to prevent inadvertent damage. Perhaps I will pose the rudder a bit to one side and the ailerons a bit offset just to give it a sense of some life poetic licence and all that. I thought of cutting off the elevators and pinning those to the horizontal stab but passed - hafta draw the line somewhere Hypodermic needles work well as drills for styrene and resin. The geometry of the tip lets you place the very sharp point bit right where you want the hole to be with no need to center punch it first and the needle geometry cuts a round hole rather than the not quite round hole produced by a twist drill which does require a center or gentleman's parts punch mark lest the tip wanders. All of those mentioned bits have been fettled and assemble square and I can now turn my attention to interior work. I don't plan on doing anything more than using the kit parts, maybe a few extra details bits but once the fuselage is all closed up there will be very little to be seen of the interior. I am quite enjoying this build getting to fettle, tweak, and practice good building skills. Cheers, Graham- 11 replies
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Very cool. Thank you for posting those pictures. Good food for thought and something ideas to follow up on. cheers, Graham
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Count me in cheers, Graham
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Please do, I would read them. cheers, Graham
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- Casey Paint Recipes
- Casey Measurements
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80397 (Yet Another) Heller Marcel Block MB.210
ColonelKrypton replied to ColonelKrypton's topic in Heller Classic GB
Overall it is not that bad a kit. Most of the fit issues I have been wrestling with are due to what seems like a very slight mould mis-alignment when this kit was made. For example, the horizontal stabilizers are moulded as one piece but the "top" and "bottom" are a bit out of alignment from each other and they do no sit flat and properly aligned on the vertical stabilizer and will need to be fettled to get them square and flat; I was fussing over that today in addition to getting the fuselage bottom and sides together and square. This is the fuselage, wings, vertical stabilizer and nacelles test fitted together just to give me a feeling of progress and how everything fits together and what and were I will need to fuss some more on fit. The MB.210 may have been one of France's pre-war bomber designs but it was a rather good looking aeroplane for it's time. A bit squarish perhaps but it looks the part. However, aeroplane design was quickly advancing and this was quickly outpaced by newer designs and thinking. cheers, Graham -
Hi Graham, That would be nice and I have considered looking for said Museum guide but as I am in Canada that would be the more expensive route to follow. As an aside, I frequently see references to said document but have never been able to find a definitive source despite many google searches. Is it listed on the https://www.rafmuseum.org.uk/ somewhere that I haven't looked? cheers, Graham
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Several times I have stumbled over references to Iliad designs colour charts and today found their own little section here on Britmodeller: https://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/forum/486-iliad-design/ One of their products is their colour charts which at first glance and by all accounts of the few reviews I have been able to find, appear to be a well done product. http://www.iliad-design.com/charts.html One of the challenges in the many discussions on colours and their accuracy is that without a good physical reference, one could happily mix a bit of this and bit of that or use any one of the myriad of off the shelf hobby paints and be close, spot on, way off, happy, or disillusioned with the results. I fall into all of those categories. The discussions of colours is both interesting from a historical research point of view and frustrating. I can blindly follow @Casey fabulous work and colour mixing recipes for which I do and my efforts become my physical references but there is always room for improvement or at least the grass always looks greener on the other side of the fence. That was a roundabout way to my question - Are the Iliad colour charts a good colour reference? My present wants are for RAF (day fighters) and FAA. So, good, poor, indifferent ? cheers, Graham
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Hmm, interesting idea. What I was really looking for were ideas on what else the K2 ambulance could be easily converted into (which wasn't an ambulance ). cheers, Graham
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Count me in too, please and thank you. cheers, Graham
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80397 (Yet Another) Heller Marcel Block MB.210
ColonelKrypton replied to ColonelKrypton's topic in Heller Classic GB
Work continues on the MB.210, slow but sure. I fussed far too much on trying to decide what colours I should use in my build. Knowing nothing about Armee de l'air colours I must rely on whatever I can find online and in the instruction sheet of this kit. The original instruction sheet can be found on Scalemates and so to the instructions for this later issue both of which are consistent. The newish Azur Ffrom 1/72 kit of the Bloch MB.210 is quite helful in this regard but has also been a source of confusion. The Azur kit is of the early model of the Bloch MB.210, in fact a couple of different versions. Colour call outs are reasonably consistent with the Heller kit except that where Heller notes the interior fuselage colour to be a tan or light brown whereas Azur notes it as a blue grey. Both Heller and Azur call out the interior of the nacelles to be tan or light brown so I have assumed - yes, dangerous that - that for pre war Armee de l'air bombers a tan or light brown coloured paint/primer/protectant was the choice. After far too much indecision I settled on tan or light brown for both the innards of the nacelles and fuselage adopting the KISS ( Keep It Simple Stupid ) approach. Putting my ruminations over colour to shame, I spent even more time on fussing over the landing gear. I like things like landing gear that can be plugged in after larger module assemble so that I can paint the bits and pieces more easily. I found the landing gear of the Heller kit is not so easy to assemble - two hand and 10 fingers just didn't do it. After several attempts to make a DIY version of the landing gear which I could plug in later after the nacelles had been assembled and finished I finally channeled my inner KISS and reverted back to the original kit pieces requiring some cleanup and fettling. Fitting the curved nacelle wheel covers to the back side of the main gear from proved frustrating; the instructions were anything but clear which required some twisted 3d thinking, finger fumbling, and fettling but I finally had it sorted but whether I got it correct or not I do not know. I did cut off the kit parts axles and drilled through so that I could finish the tires separately which can then be assembled post paint. those nacelle bits do not fit so nice together and will require some fettling to clean up the seams and joins. Now, I must be careful that I do not let my heavy handedness break off those somewhat spindly landing gear bits. All in all, had I attempted to build this kit when a young teen I may not have been able to get all my fingers working the correct unison to the thing assembled. I should have been easy, perhaps it is just my over thinking the problem that caused me so much grief. Wings and empennage have been assembled and now assembled nacelles test fitted on said wings testing alignment and fit. Several steps forward after several frustrating steps back and forth and I can start to see those bits and pieces coming together as they should. Frustrations aside, I have been enjoying this build. There is a certain perverse pleasure is fussing over some of these old kits which have their warts fit wise. cheers, Graham- 11 replies
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Even with metal replacement bits there is always benefit from pinning parts together. Even small plastic struts can be pinned with fine hard or half hard brass wire - small drill and a steady hand helps and like everything else practice makes perfect. Foam, foam core, acrylic scrapes thin plywood, cardboard, chipboard, cardstock, and even styrene ( 0.040, 0.060, and even 0.080 sizes) They are all useable and have their pluses and minuses. Acrylic is tough and not always to work but may work for some things. Foam and foam core board - cheap and easy to work but may not be as precise for some things. The foam trays which some food products are sold on work well too. Just be careful with solvent cements. cardboard, chipboard, card stock. - cheap and easy to work and glue. thin plywood, Dollarama, 2mm thick, easy to work, easy to glue, inexpensive. Dollarama has bits, pieces, shapes, squares, circles, and I saw some larger 6" x 9" or similar size sheets in the craft section for a few dollars. Styrene - a bit more $$ but can be cut, shaped, easily glued when the need for something more precise is needed and the bits and pieces can be easily repurposed afterward into other jigs or what not. All of these materials are everywhere around us, you just need to see and imagine their uses. We all to often try and over engineer something. I know I do. You Norseman is looking more and more the part of a Norseman on floats and with Stuarts Norseman build on the go, I am feeling the urge to build a float plane of some sort. I recently saw the announcement of Dora Wings 1/48 Beaver. I have a preference for this larger scale and the Beaver is one of my all time favourites. cheers, Graham
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Found it, thank you cheers,
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I did a quick search but failed to find the noted thread. Please grab my ears and point me in the right direction. cheers, Graham