Gloss varnish over Sovereign Hobbies Colourcoats enamel paint - advice needed

[Johnson]

Hi Folks,

 

I've just finished painting my Airfix 1/24 Spitfire using Colourcoats enamel paint. The paint is superb, good application using an airbrush and great colour.

 

 

But I think the model will need a coat of gloss prior to applying the decals. I'm tempted to use Mr Colour GX112 gloss thinned with Mr Color Leveling Thinner, but the solvents may be a bit 'hot' for the enamel?

 

Does anyone have experience here? What gloss works best with Colourcoats? Possibly Jamie @Jamie @ Sovereign Hobbies may be able to advise?

 

Thanks,

[spitfire]

Never used a gloss coat on Colourcoats, just applied the decals straight on, With matt paints I usually just polish up the area the decal is going onto with a nail buffer.

 

Cheers

 

Dennis

[Jamie @ Sovereign Hobbies]

As much as people seem to love it, all of my biggest modelling disasters of late have involved trying to use levelling thinners. I haven't had any problems with it dissolving my paint, more that my enamels thinned with levelling thinners makes it as weak and useless as most acrylics. I haven't tried the combination you propose so would suggest you test it on a swatch or paint mule first after all that work you've done. I've been fine using enamel gloss thinned with cellulose and using things like Alclad Aquagloss which is probably my favourite of them - it goes on unthinned. When thinning with cellulose one does need to work using a style more like mine - i.e. quite miserly with the thickness of any applied wet film rather than wetter styles used by others. It's all about how long your paint is exposed to your solvents as well as how aggressive the solvents are. You can get away with fairly aggressive solvents providing it flashes off fast and evaporates away. You can dissolve paint completely in weak solvents if allowed to soak.

 

The best way to be sure your particular way of applying wet coats and how heavy or light they are is compatible with a certain solvent and a certain base paint is to try it yourself on a test subject. You'll know within 24 hours whether or not you have a problem. I'd suggest erring towards the ham-fisted on the test subject rather than being extra careful to get a positive test, followed by flooding the real model with a thick wet coat of aggressive solvent afterwards.

[Johnson]

OK, some tests have been done. I painted up some old 1/72 Spitfire parts with the same Mr Surfacer primer and Colourcoats paints as used on my current build that I need to gloss coat.

 

For the test I used Mr Color UV Cut GX-112 thinned with approx 70% Mr Color Leveling Thinners. And, as a comparison, some Hannants Xtracrylix Gloss thinned with water and then isopropyl alcohol.

 

For the GX-112 coats I followed the method Ray @Ray_W used last year on his model that worked very well. As I want to know the potential destructive affect of GX-112/Leveling Thinners on Colourcoats Paint, I also tried Jamie's @Jamie @ Sovereign Hobbies suggestion of very heavy coats of GX-112/Leveling Thinners, followed by a coat of almost neat Leveling Thinners.

 

This is what I got;

 

 

Light coats of GX-112/Leveling Thinners worked well and gave a good even gloss finish. I detected no ill-affect on the underlying CC paint at all. The heavy application may have caused some slight damage, difficult to be sure.

 

The Xtracrylix went on very badly (bobbling and orange peel) diluted with water. It was much better when thinned with approx 30% IPA. Nevertheless, the gloss wasn't as good as the GX-112.

 

I will go ahead and use (cautiously!) the GX-112 on the real thing.

 

DISCLAIMER - If you use GX-112/MLT on your model - experiment first!

 

Cheers,

[Ray_W]

12 hours ago, Johnson said:

Light coats of GX-112/Leveling Thinners worked well and gave a good even gloss finish.

 

Hi Charlie,

 

I had an expectation that GX-112 would work although I remain nervous with covering enamels and aqueous vinyl paints. I typically apply the GX in light coats (to gas off quickly) yet still moist (not flood) coats for self-levelling on a well cured surface. If concerned I will leave it days and go on with something else before applying the GX.

 

Might I suggest you put your completed test piece aside for a few days and inspect again before committing to the big project. Just to be sure.

 

Ray 

 

 

[Duncan B]

I use Alclad's Aquagloss with Colourcoats. As it's an acrylic it gives me the barrier I need before applying an enamel based wash (Mig and/or AK Interactive) which might otherwise start attacking the enamel paints. Kleer would also work if you have some but I don't see the point in using floor polish now that model hobby specific acrylic glosses are available.

 

Duncan B

[Duncan B]

I forgot to say that the only disaster I've had with glossing Colourcoats was when I thought I'd save some time and tried to use an aerosol gloss coat (Mr Color IIRC) which immediately attacked the paint because the carrier medium is way too aggressive.

 

 

Duncan B

[ckw]

28 minutes ago, Duncan B said:

but I don't see the point in using floor polish now that model hobby specific acrylic glosses are available.

 

Alclad is around £3.50 for 60ml

Furture around £14 for 798ml

 

I'm not stingy - I pay what is required to do the job well, but in all walks of life companies sell specialist products for niche markets where a generic product does the same job for much less. If there was a weakness in future that Alclad improved on, I'd buy it

 

Cheers

 

Colin

[Ray_W]

18 minutes ago, Duncan B said:

I use Alclad's Aquagloss with Colourcoats. As it's an acrylic it gives me the barrier I need before applying an enamel based wash (Mig and/or AK Interactive) which might otherwise start attacking the enamel paints. Kleer would also work if you have some but I don't see the point in using floor polish now that model hobby specific acrylic glosses are available.

 

Duncan, good advice. I have heard good things about Alclad Aquagloss and have not tried it. Mainly because I have become such a Gunzephile of late and that is knowing the compatibility and predictability of all their products together (and with Tamiya). I did use the GX as a top coat on AK Real Color with great success. I too have moved away from Future. When I need a non-reactive coat I use MiG Lucky Varnishes or AK's Gauze.

 

Ray

[Johnson]

4 hours ago, Ray_W said:

Might I suggest you put your completed test piece aside for a few days and inspect again before committing to the big project. Just to be sure.

👍 Absolutely agree Ray. I'll leave the test pieces for a few days before cautiously starting on the main job. I'm following your method precisely and I'm even using a 'borrowed' hairdryer! The CC paint went on over a week ago and is nice and hard. A question did occur to me when spraying the test pieces - how many coats do you typically use of GX-112, and how long do you wait between coats?

 

3 hours ago, Duncan B said:

I use Alclad's Aquagloss with Colourcoats

Thanks Duncan. I like Alclad products and will try Aquagloss, what do thin it with? That was some disaster you had with the Wildcat (? sorry - not good on Naval planes). That's exactly what I want to avoid! A real shame, did you manage to repair it OK?

 

Having read about Future/Pledge/Revive It for years, I've finally bought a bottle, just to try, even if it's just on canopies and decal setting. I'll try some test dipping on suitable candidates! But is it as hard to remove from an airbrush as some people make out?

 

Cheers,

[ckw]

3 minutes ago, Johnson said:

But is it as hard to remove from an airbrush as some people make out?

I guess all things are relative - I use cellulose thinner as my standard airbrush cleaner for everything - enamels, acrylic, future ... no problems with anything. You can also clean out future with IPA or ammonia (some window cleaners may work) but ammonia may have an adverse reaction to the plating on some airbrushes.

 

But you can also apply future by brush.

 

Cheers

 

Colin

[Ray_W]

1 hour ago, Johnson said:

how many coats do you typically use of GX-112, and how long do you wait between coats?

I just keep going. So less than a minute between coats even with a quick hit with the hairdryer. Maybe 3-4 coats.

 

I have also came from the Future School and now just prefer the predictability of the super thin, strong finish of GX. I would jump back to the water dilutable clear finishes, like Future, if a gloss coat is required over enamels. I never had trouble cleaning the airbrush. Do not shoot dry. Wash out with water immediately and some Windex (original ammonia type).  Colin's advice @ckw is my experience. 

 

I still have a couple of bottles of original Future now 12 year's old that still performs and use it for some uses, but not airbrushing or canopy dipping (I polish). 

 

Ray

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Duncan B]

8 hours ago, ckw said:

Alclad is around £3.50 for 60ml

Furture around £14 for 798ml

 

I'm not stingy - I pay what is required to do the job well, but in all walks of life companies sell specialist products for niche markets where a generic product does the same job for much less. If there was a weakness in future that Alclad improved on, I'd buy it

 

Cheers

 

Colin

That's a fair enough point however I never had a lot of success with Kleer (I haven't tried Future) as it would either orange peel or clog my airbrush whereas the Alclad Aquagloss sprays beautifully straight from the bottle. I don't sell the stuff so I'm not trying to plug it on the sly, it's just my own opinion.

 

Duncan B

[Duncan B]

4 hours ago, Johnson said:

👍 Absolutely agree Ray. I'll leave the test pieces for a few days before cautiously starting on the main job. I'm following your method precisely and I'm even using a 'borrowed' hairdryer! The CC paint went on over a week ago and is nice and hard. A question did occur to me when spraying the test pieces - how many coats do you typically use of GX-112, and how long do you wait between coats?

 

Thanks Duncan. I like Alclad products and will try Aquagloss, what do thin it with? That was some disaster you had with the Wildcat (? sorry - not good on Naval planes). That's exactly what I want to avoid! A real shame, did you manage to repair it OK?

 

Having read about Future/Pledge/Revive It for years, I've finally bought a bottle, just to try, even if it's just on canopies and decal setting. I'll try some test dipping on suitable candidates! But is it as hard to remove from an airbrush as some people make out?

 

Cheers,

I did manage to repair it (even though it was a lot worse than just that one bit).

I also use Gunze GX and the UV Cut clears (which are even better than the GX clears) when I'm spraying over Mr Color or other acrylics and for my final top sealing coat. Alclad's Aquagloss can be brushed on (very handy for a quick sealing coat) and it does not require thinning for brushing or spraying.

 

Duncan B 

[Johnson]

I'm going to get some Alclad Aqua Gloss to try, can't have too many chemicals... It's pretty reasonable if you buy direct from Alclad.

 

Not in a rush to finish the Spit, Spring is sprung (I've been told, plenty to do in the garden ) and an old motorbike to service . As long as I'm finished by the start of the Bf 109 STGB.

 

Cheers

[Ray_W]

 

 

2 hours ago, Duncan B said:

UV Cut clears (which are even better than the GX clears)

 

Duncan,

 

Very interesting to read your comment on this. First time I have read of someone who shares my experience. GX100 is great, but the GX112 UV Cut seems a little better.  Sprays beautifully. It is why I prefer the GX112.

 

Ray

[ckw]

5 hours ago, Duncan B said:

That's a fair enough point however I never had a lot of success with Kleer (I haven't tried Future) as it would either orange peel or clog my airbrush whereas the Alclad Aquagloss sprays beautifully straight from the bottle. I don't sell the stuff so I'm not trying to plug it on the sly, it's just my own opinion.

I think with any product individual experience differs enormously - we see it with comments on paints all the time. So many factors are involved ... individual technique, equipment, preparation, environment - it's nigh on impossible to use a given product exactly the way someone else has used it. If I stumble across something that works, I'll stick with it come hell or high water! 

 

Cheers

 

Colin

[Duncan B]

8 hours ago, ckw said:

I think with any product individual experience differs enormously - we see it with comments on paints all the time. So many factors are involved ... individual technique, equipment, preparation, environment - it's nigh on impossible to use a given product exactly the way someone else has used it. If I stumble across something that works, I'll stick with it come hell or high water! 

 

Cheers

 

Colin

Yes indeed, I have lost count of how many types of paint I tried when I first got back into modelling about 15 years ago. The most common paint discussion I see is the "Vallejo (insert your own example here) is great/awful" one. I have never had a lot of luck with water based acrylics of any form (other than Pollyscale many years ago) but some people swear by them. What I'm doing to get such poor results while others can get them to stick to teflon beats me.

As you say, it's all about finding something that works for you and sticking to it.

 

Duncan B

[Johnson]

What you say Colin and Duncan is true. I’ve been using Xtracolor since I got back into modelling about 30 years ago. The very reason for this thread is my trial of Colourcoats and the need to achieve a gloss coat that came naturally with Xtracolor. But it’s good to experiment with new media, and having thought about it, I surmised that CC would probably give me the desired result I needed for the hard camouflage demarcation of the Spitfire Mk.1, and a decent colour.

And Colin is completely right, everyone is going to get a different result, especially when all the variables of airbrushing are included. But the effects of solvents tend to be more predictable, which is why I read, and followed, Ray’s guidelines precisely. In this case I t’s about limiting the exposure of the underlying enamel to the softening of the solvent.

And ‘snap’, I have never managed to get acrylics to work for me. They clog up the airbrush and I have to resort to cellulose thinner for the cleaning every time.

[Ray_W]

As I mentioned I am a bit of a Gunzephile at the moment, but if I am going for no smell and wash out in water, I do like LifeColor. However, your technique changes. I use their thinner with a little flow enhancer (I have a pre-mix of this) and they spray wonderfully and brush straight out of the jar better than most. You just need patience with that thin first coat. They go down wonderfully thin, self-levelled, excellent coverage (remember the thin first coats) and I like their colour range. It is my go to paint when home in Australia. While away I tend to pick up what I can source locally - so Gunze/Tamiya and AK it is.  I would never take GX anywhere near Lifecolor - unless you're after a bubbled paint effect.

 

However, based on the last 3 years experience with the Gunze lacquers I will definitely be getting more Gunze on the home front. 

[Johnson]

10 minutes ago, Ray_W said:

I do like LifeColor. However

Best ‘interior green’ for a Spitfire I’ve ever seen.

[Johnson]

Alclad II Aqua Gloss arrived yesterday. So today experiments to see how it compared to the GX-112;

 

 

And a different angle to try to capture the gloss;

 

 

Not much in it at all, but the Alclad II Aqua Gloss had very slightly more sheen than the GX-112.

 

In the circumstances I'll be using the Alclad II Aqua Gloss. I feel that GX-112 would be OK over the CC enamel, but safer with the water based product.

 

Thanks everyone for all your input and advice, greatly appreciated!

 

Cheers,