ModellerCH Posted December 4, 2017 Share Posted December 4, 2017 Hi all, i just bought an Italeri Sunderland Mk. III. Anyone did one already? I'm looking for some advices on how to build it or if there are some tips an tricks. For example what to use for the cables, or if there are photo ench parts, beside the ones that come with the kit, or resin parts, what are the most weathered parts of the planes and so on. Well all advices are welcome! Thank! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham T Posted December 4, 2017 Share Posted December 4, 2017 Ive built it recently. Not a bad kit. As is often the case very little of the interior can be seen once assembled do how much effort you put in is up to you but I'd suggest that any aftermarket parts here are wasted. Watch the instructions regarding which flashed over port holes need opening up for the machine you're building & leave of the ASV radar aerials until the last minute (after painting & recalling!). Recommend a set of Eduard masks for all those transparencies & I think that's about it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ModellerCH Posted December 4, 2017 Author Share Posted December 4, 2017 Thank you wery much for your help. I looked at some Eduard kit...thinking to get the cockpit one and some external stuff. But i got a question. I read that Sunderland had 16 .303 guns and i found those barrels from Ultracast : http://www.ultracast.ca/products/Master/48 Scale/MAM-48-026/default.htm . Are these the right barrels? Do you think it worth to get them or look for some resin ones? Thanks again Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dogsbody Posted December 4, 2017 Share Posted December 4, 2017 Just a wee note on colour callouts. Italeri would have you paint the whole of the engines gunmetal. Only paint the cylinders gunmetal. Paint the central gear casings semi-gloss black. Or you could use flat black and when dry, give it a light rub with your finger. Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ModellerCH Posted December 4, 2017 Author Share Posted December 4, 2017 Just now, dogsbody said: Just a wee note on colour callouts. Italeri would have you paint the whole of the engines gunmetal. Only paint the cylinders gunmetal. Paint the central gear casings semi-gloss black. Or you could use flat black and when dry, give it a light rub with your finger. Chris Thank for the help! Will pay attention to it! Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stever219 Posted December 4, 2017 Share Posted December 4, 2017 Not all Sunderlands carried that many guns: some later Mk. IIIs, IIIAs and Vs had four .5 inch guns mounted in the nose but from the outside you'd only see the ends of the barrels (look at images of ML824 at Hendon for example. Usual rule: check for images of your subject, likewise with the guns. Flash eliminators might or might not be fitted. Weathering tended to vary: many Sunderlands tended to look grubby along the waterline on hull and floats unless they were fresh from the factory or off overhaul. Some aircraft that had been hastily camouflaged over aluminium dope or Sky Grey at the start of the war tended to shed quite large areas of paint in areas subject to heavy use or abrasion. There are six rigging wires per float, one each side from adjacent to the end of the strut to the underside of the wing and two diagonal braces fore and aft between the struts: I don't think any after market etched brass sets cater for them. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LDSModeller Posted December 5, 2017 Share Posted December 5, 2017 9 hours ago, ModellerCH said: Hi all, i just bought an Italeri Sunderland Mk. III. Anyone did one already? I'm looking for some advices on how to build it or if there are some tips an tricks. For example what to use for the cables, or if there are photo ench parts, beside the ones that come with the kit, or resin parts, what are the most weathered parts of the planes and so on. Well all advices are welcome! Thank! Depends on what Mk III you want to build, and how accurate you want your Sunderland? Bear in mind only later production Mk III's had the fixed forward bow guns mounted, and they were x4 .303 Brownings Mk2, 450 rounds/gun (circa early 1944) Those Mk III's serving in places like West Africa didn't have the bow mounted guns or the upper Turret The kit has a number of issues, but a few observations: The Italeri Mk III Sunderland has the ASV Mk VI Centrimic pods for under the wings for a Mk IIIa, but not the FN 5B Mk3 Turret, found on the Mk IIIa. Italeri Sunderland's (both kits) suffer from rings around each porthole, obviously to simulate opening portholes. But actual Sunderland's did not have this, only forward ports opened and not all of these. You can fill in the outer rings of the non opening and leave the others as is - should look fine, in scale too Italeri Kit portholes What it looks like on actual Sunderland - note opening ports have the rings - non don't Both Italeri kits are missing the Tenth Porthole Starboard side, you will need to add (black O) Mk III Kit instruction would have you paint the wing tip lenses Red/Blue, they were actually clear Aftermarket - forget it to be honest, Eduard interior/exterior sets are fictitious and you'd be best spending your $ on other other things of more import. Hope that helps? Regards Alan 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ModellerCH Posted December 6, 2017 Author Share Posted December 6, 2017 Thanks guys! Well...i'would like to build a good model..i'm not really practical with drilling holes and so on...i need some experimentation...i found this kit really nice because not really a popular plane in modeller community, i did not saw many around. Actually i bought Eduard paint masks and, interiores [yeah i know money for nothing], and a wing surface kit. I'd love to build the external maintenance platforms but it's way to advances for me now. I like little details and that why I asked for barrels. Colors wise i think i'll try to paint the No. 10 Squadron of may 1941...hope the cammo will looks good. Well, i think i'll post some pictures of the work in progress so you guys will be able to correct my mistakes. Thanks again 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed Russell Posted December 6, 2017 Share Posted December 6, 2017 3 hours ago, ModellerCH said: Colors wise (I) think (I'll) try to paint the No. 10 Squadron of May 1941... Note that it is a Mk II rather than III but this may help with a bit of 10 Sqn advice http://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/234930547-italeri-sunderland-mk-ii-raaf-10-squadron/ http://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/234940047-italeri-sunderland-mk-ii-raaf-10-squadron/ Here's a reference to look at http://www.adf-serials.com.au/sunderland.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ModellerCH Posted December 6, 2017 Author Share Posted December 6, 2017 (edited) 23 minutes ago, Ed Russell said: Note that it is a Mk II rather than III but this may help with a bit of 10 Sqn advice http://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/234930547-italeri-sunderland-mk-ii-raaf-10-squadron/ http://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/234940047-italeri-sunderland-mk-ii-raaf-10-squadron/ Here's a reference to look at http://www.adf-serials.com.au/sunderland.htm Thanks a lot! Awesome pictures! As said by Steve219 it looks like the weathering is concentrated on the water line of the aricraft, and especially on the front. And as I see most of the times it uses the whithe and grey color scheme which is very nice. I'm just wondering what to use for the cables...meaby electric copper one and then paint in black? The manual tell to use plastic ones, but i don't know ho to cut plastic that thin. This picture it's quite interresting: https://www.bing.com/images/search?view=detailV2&ccid=e5ziYzhY&id=8FDD296A4D43DE7D7F44E094435973082E174DFC&thid=OIP.e5ziYzhYW_IR_UPL_fdOdgEsDX&q=short+sunderland+mk+iii&simid=608002886710200666&selectedIndex=27&ajaxhist=0 Edited December 6, 2017 by ModellerCH Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dogsbody Posted December 6, 2017 Share Posted December 6, 2017 Some photos can be found here: http://www.seawings.co.uk/ Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed Russell Posted December 6, 2017 Share Posted December 6, 2017 2 hours ago, ModellerCH said: I'm just wondering what to use for the cables...meaby electric copper one and then paint in black? The manual tell to use plastic ones, but i don't know ho to cut plastic that thin. The instructions say "Stirred Plastic" which I interpret as stretched plastic sprue https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pw0fv6Ot7eQ Copper wire stretched a little to straighten it should be fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LDSModeller Posted December 7, 2017 Share Posted December 7, 2017 3 hours ago, ModellerCH said: Thanks a lot! Awesome pictures! As said by Steve219 it looks like the weathering is concentrated on the water line of the aricraft, and especially on the front. And as I see most of the times it uses the whithe and grey color scheme which is very nice. I'm just wondering what to use for the cables...meaby electric copper one and then paint in black? The manual tell to use plastic ones, but i don't know ho to cut plastic that thin. This picture it's quite interresting: https://www.bing.com/images/search?view=detailV2&ccid=e5ziYzhY&id=8FDD296A4D43DE7D7F44E094435973082E174DFC&thid=OIP.e5ziYzhYW_IR_UPL_fdOdgEsDX&q=short+sunderland+mk+iii&simid=608002886710200666&selectedIndex=27&ajaxhist=0 One thing you need to remember is that it depends on where your Sunderland served, and the conditions of the maritime area of the home base. Also take this caution, that any photo is only a snapshot of a moment in time of the Sunderland during its operational life. All Sunderland's started out brand spanking new and shiny, gradually (again depending where) weathering would begin and go from there. Sunderland's didn't stay "dirty" all their service life, I have photos of Mk I's at Shorts, painted in Grey/White, when they began their life probably camouflaged. Sunderland's like all airframes have to undergo maintenance/ major overhaul, so any grime etc is cleaned off, probably a repaint, or touch up at least. Types of weathering/grime - note this Sunderland photo annotated by me (Photo used for illustration purposes only) The waterline depending on home base conditions can be grimy to downright disgusting (remember toilet flushed Starboard side) Tender strike above the water line mostly port side, but can find rear starboard side also Peggie Mk XVIII's were notorious for throwing oil Bird droppings, if the aircraft has been at its mooring even for a day, can have bird droppings - I recall when climbing out on the upper surface of the an RNZAF Sunderland, having to tip toe around the Seagull droppings - one slip and your in for an early bath in the sea below. Also not noted on photo paint wear atop of aircraft by crew (refueling etc) Note also that Mk III's had lanolin waterproofing paint (Clear/Grey) which can complicate grimy looking waterlines Note this next photo shows the usual tender alongside, remember Standard Practice was for the tender to come in under the wing alongside, so tender strike on the paint tended to stretch along the Port side where the crew entered, but not so much Starboard side -note you can see the oil throw just under inner engine (Photo used for illustration purposes only) Other types of weathering - note this Mk III being beached a number of things to note (Photo used for illustration purposes only) Note the tail planes, difference in colouration, and wings exhaust stains etc Note the waterline - a lot of modellers miss this -note how it appears two lines on the waterline one for loaded Sunderland (higher one) one for unloaded (lower line) Another thing I have never seen on a Sunderland especially by modellers depicting a just landed aircraft is the brownish grime stretching from under the trailing edge along fuselage to the rear hatch. When the flaps are lowered, water from the landing surge makes it way up along the fuselage past the flap well taking with it oil throw etc which is taken by the airflow and bingo you have that dirty mess. As far as Bracing wires go, hopefully this photo will help Regards Alan 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ModellerCH Posted December 8, 2017 Author Share Posted December 8, 2017 Thanks a lot guys! So many thing i don't know about this plane. Thanks LDSModeller: really appreciate your care about the details you provide me for this kit. I will let you know about the work in progress...but don't expect too much Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ModellerCH Posted December 10, 2017 Author Share Posted December 10, 2017 Just a quick question about washes: I use Flory Model washes which a great to use because water based and needs no enmael thinner or so on to remove excess liquid. I see that Tamiya, Ak and Vallejo also got tons of washes but i never tried them. Anyone got a advice on that? I'm a little bit scared about using thinner to remove washes form panels because meaby it could remove the main colors...but probably i'm wrong: if i correctly remember, you can use enamel thinner liquid on acrylic paint, or an acrylic thinner on enamel colors, right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woody37 Posted December 10, 2017 Share Posted December 10, 2017 Yes right. I play safe by adding a coat of Johnstons Klear though before adding any washes. Making your own wash is easy enough, I mix a bit of oil paint in to white spirit as I use acrylic paint. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ND417 Posted August 13, 2018 Share Posted August 13, 2018 Hi all, fairly new to the site - watched from the sidelines for years but never posted. Does anyone know if the underwing radomes are the same as the Lancaster/Halifax HS.2 ones? Currently building a conversion of another kit and wanted to fit a pair but only got the HS.2 ones. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dogsbody Posted August 14, 2018 Share Posted August 14, 2018 Yeah, they should be about the right shape and size. Not sure about Halifax radomes but Lancaster domes will need to have the base/bottom sanded down to fit the flatter underwing, as these usually are made to fit the more round under fuselage of the Lanc. I have a couple of vac units that I bought from Canovac years ago. Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LDSModeller Posted August 14, 2018 Share Posted August 14, 2018 (edited) 6 hours ago, ND417 said: Hi all, fairly new to the site - watched from the sidelines for years but never posted. Does anyone know if the underwing radomes are the same as the Lancaster/Halifax HS.2 ones? Currently building a conversion of another kit and wanted to fit a pair but only got the HS.2 ones. Side view from Wiki https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/H2S_(radar)#/media/File:H2S_Radome_And_Scanner_On_Halifax.jpg What they should look like on a Sunderland Mk V/MR5 These are off our Sunderland above (for refurbishing) Unless you have a H2S pod to compare up close hard to say, but in 1/72 the difference may be minimal Regards Alan Edited August 14, 2018 by LDSModeller Photo edit 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ND417 Posted August 14, 2018 Share Posted August 14, 2018 Thanks for the replies Chris and Alan. Ive hunted for the Canovac versions to no avail. ☹️ The photos you’ve provided are great - thank you. It looks as though the H2S ones are longer - something I’ve found trying to fit my ones into position - they’re fouling on the ailerons. I’m gonna have to go back to the drawing board on this one. The Italeri Sunderland Mk.III comes with them doesn’t it? I wonder if SWMBO will let me get away with a third Sunderland in the stash? 🤔 (Got two Airfix ones) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LDSModeller Posted August 15, 2018 Share Posted August 15, 2018 6 hours ago, ND417 said: Thanks for the replies Chris and Alan. Ive hunted for the Canovac versions to no avail. ☹️ The photos you’ve provided are great - thank you. It looks as though the H2S ones are longer - something I’ve found trying to fit my ones into position - they’re fouling on the ailerons. I’m gonna have to go back to the drawing board on this one. The Italeri Sunderland Mk.III comes with them doesn’t it? I wonder if SWMBO will let me get away with a third Sunderland in the stash? 🤔 (Got two Airfix ones) Hi, Yes the Italeri Kit does have the Mk VI ASV pods, as in photo below This is the kit part on an Airfix Sunderland wing The Italeri part is rounded to the very edge, and does not have correct geometry of the real thing as in my previous post, That said you can either live with that, or shape one yourself? FYI the SH parts are the same as the Italeri. The Italeri ones in my Mk III kit, I plan to use on an RNZAF Sunderland MR5. I have yet to decide whether I will attempt any corrections - some times you have to pick your battles Regards Alan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ND417 Posted August 15, 2018 Share Posted August 15, 2018 Thanks Alan - outstanding stuff. Think im gonna hunt out the Sunderland versions - they are shorter than the H2S ones. One question: SH parts? Regards Neil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ND417 Posted August 15, 2018 Share Posted August 15, 2018 Thanks Alan - outstanding stuff. Think im gonna hunt out the Sunderland versions - they are shorter than the H2S ones. One question: SH parts? Regards Neil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed Russell Posted August 15, 2018 Share Posted August 15, 2018 SH = Special Hobby. The Italeri and Special Hobby Sunderlands have a common ancestry although their paths diverged some time ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dogsbody Posted August 15, 2018 Share Posted August 15, 2018 This is the radome from a 1980's vintage Airfix Lancaster sitting on the Airfix Sunderland wing. It fits size-wise but would require sanding/filler to sit on the wing surface properly. Chris 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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