A BIG Rolls Royce

[David_64]

I've got a lot to learn…..

[Tzulscha]

Mr Codger, Sir.

I am a codger myself but am working my way towards curmudgeonhood. (Shaking fist at kids on lawn)

*Ahem*

I've been following this thread as an anonymous lurker since the beginning and I find myself compelled to sign up on the forums just to express my admiration for your efforts.

I've been building for over fifty years myself, a lot of it scratch building and you are showing me new wrinkles even now.

I inherited a Pocher 540K as a wreck but was offered too much money to sell it before I gave myself ulcers trying to rebuild it.

I find myself regretting that decision after watching this thread progress. (Well, maybe not, it WAS great flipping wodgers of cash.)

You sir, are nuts and I mean that in the best way possible.

I shall continue to follow this epic thread to it final conclusion. Avidly!

[Pouln]

Codger, ok, agreed this is a better version, but are you sure that this is the best you can or will you surprise us with yet another version?

In the pic where you compare the 2 it is clear that the new one has better proportions, more straight frame.

I thought it was already good, but this one is better

Edited March 23, 2016 by Pouln

[Codger]

Mr Codger, Sir.

I am a codger myself but am working my way towards curmudgeonhood. (Shaking fist at kids on lawn)

*Ahem*

I've been following this thread as an anonymous lurker since the beginning and I find myself compelled to sign up on the forums just to express my admiration for your efforts.

I've been building for over fifty years myself, a lot of it scratch building and you are showing me new wrinkles even now.

I inherited a Pocher 540K as a wreck but was offered too much money to sell it before I gave myself ulcers trying to rebuild it.

I find myself regretting that decision after watching this thread progress. (Well, maybe not, it WAS great flipping wodgers of cash.)

You sir, are nuts and I mean that in the best way possible.

I shall continue to follow this epic thread to it final conclusion. Avidly!

Tzulscha, I can't tell you how incredibly kind and generous your comments are. Lurking is always welcomed but to have you sign-up and take the time to comment is greatly appreciated.

I am a dues paying curmudgeon as well and I have some 'new wrinkles' too! You're never too old to pursue perfection. I try but the Smithsonian is not wringing my phone off the hook to acquire the world's best toy Rolls.

I plead guilty to the 'nuts' charge and around here they don't mean it as nicely as you do. By all means, now that you're on board, post; ask questions, throw kisses or bricks.

I certainly appreciate the support and look forward to learning far more than teaching. Thank you - I am humbled.

[Codger]

Codger, ok, agreed this is a better version, but are you sure that this is the best you can or will you surprise us with yet another version?

In the pic where you compare the 2 it is clear that the new one has better proportions, more straight frame.

I thought it was already good, but this one is better

Thanks David and Pouln. I will not try the patience of the forum any further with luggage racks. I'm content now and promise.

But I've been thinking about a nice rack for a long time now...........

[Codger]

Dirty little secret...

Not proud of the 'engineering' here but I offer this secret for Pocher builders (and potential builders) that are timid about changing things. IMO, these cars should be about building classics the way you'd want one, not the cookie-cutter way they're 'supposed' to look when built OOB or by the book. I've explained about how the look I am after takes precedence over historical accuracy to a particular 1:1. Top chops, channeling and all manner of mayhem became easy for me to adjust to for getting what I wanted. Creative license again. Pocher purists may look away if this is offensive.

A big irritant for me was the view from the rear of the P II and seeing the tires tucked way inboard of the coachwork giving that spindly look. 19" skinny tires add to that:

So I fiddled with bits to get the tires outboard, closer to the fender outer edges. When mock-up, I discovered that it transformed the side and rear views of the model to 'just right'. NOT hot rod, low-rider crazy stuff. Just a subtle change that no one who is not a P II or Pocher expert would even notice. It just looks 'right'. Give the car a more purposeful look.

While test-fitting I found washers in my spares which are 1mm thick and ~.250 ID. I learned that three of them slipped on the axle with the wheel then mounted, spaced the wheel the perfect distance. The limiting factor was the Pocher screws which retain the wheels to the brass axles. They are short and of a thread pitch apparently not seen on this planet. With the 3mm spacing I could just get three threads in to seat the wheel safely. One more mm and the wheel would not stay on. The axle hole depth is actually about 8mm; I'd love to find screws that long. Possibly other Pocher classic kits use them but they would have to be tested in the Rolls axle. I scoured the web and pounded on Pocher part suppliers to no avail. But LocTite when I finally assemble them will be secure and safe. Here is the test with 3mm added per side. You will note the large gap that the brake drum now has from its backing plate:

That problem led to the next cobble. The decision was made to widen the brake drum. Not very elegant engineering I'll admit. But I sourced two new rear drums and began hacking bits apart. The measuring was very critical, to keep the mating surfaces flat and not have the drum rub when the wheel rotates. So surgery began:

The result when painted was to look factory. The red circle shows the three 1mm wide washers employed:

Having said that, I wanted them to just disappear under the fenders and behind the wheel well cover. And not have a 'toy' look from the lower rear.

I'm sorry I didn't take fully-assembled shots in my haste to move on. But I will have to dress the car again in future and you'll see the side and rear view with tires on and decide for yourself. I guess my point to telling this sordid tale is to make the Pocher classics the way you want them to look. Since every one of them is a compromise by Pocher design, to its 1:1 prototype, there is NO stock, accurate Pocher classic to be chained to. Don't be timid of change. You will look at your model for a long time after completion; don't regret that it's not the way you prefer.

[Pouln]

I like your line of reasoning. If you do not build on commission, make sure that you build it the way you are happy with it.

Somehow I get the feeling, don't know wherefrom, that you are doing just that, lol.

Edited March 24, 2016 by Pouln

[Aeronut]

Anyone inspired by Codger's build in this thread may be interested in 'Barn find condition' one.

http://sheffieldauctiongallery.com/Catalogues/2016/ss310316/lot0423.html

[Codger]

Sorry for the two missing pictures in the 'jig assembly' post for the luggage rack, a few posts back. Cyber glitches occur which are beyond my feeble computer knowledge.

[larchiefeng]

Big difference between rack number one and rack number two. The first one looked good but, the second one just looks right. It looks like a piece of MMC jewelry in comparison that's how big of a difference it is! Very tasty! I can't wait until you eventually pull out all your finished pieces and do a mock up.

[sharknose156]

Agreed, the first one is almost too shiny. The second one looks just right and on scale. Very convincing. By the way thank you for showing the technique of bending and welding.

[Codger]

Thanks Wayne. Be a little bit before I do a full dress like you just did. I'm currently involved in some heavy work on the main body (in and out) and doors. Many things in that area now coincide and working on one means planning the others at the same time. All interdependent.

More soon.

Thanks too Shark. But remember these parts are shiny because they must be perfect before getting chrome-plated. You must get all the scratches out, then polish the brass to mirror or any flaws show through the thin chrome. The first rack is raw from assembly before polish, the second is completely polished, wrapped in foam and waiting for other parts to all go to the platers. No flaws. That's where the hours go....

[morty_3333]

Hi there Mr. C!

Just catching up with the thread,I'm so glad to see You back at the workbench (No, easel, that's where art is produced!), and guiding Us Mere Mortals on the road to excellence in model building!

The explanation on forming and soldering the rack was inspirational (truely),and shows what scratch-building is all about.

Which brings Me to My next point, has it been suggested or have You thought about publishing a book about this build? It would become a handbook for all future generations of Pocher and scratch-builders,showing the way the thought processes and skills and sheer tenacity can acheive amazing results.

The way that You explain processes is clear and concise,and easy to follow,and would(and does!) inspire others to have a go.

Again, glad that Your health has improved,and keep fighting the good fight!!

Keep Sticking!

Yours, Pete

[Codger]

Hi there Mr. C!

Just catching up with the thread,I'm so glad to see You back at the workbench (No, easel, that's where art is produced!), and guiding Us Mere Mortals on the road to excellence in model building!

The explanation on forming and soldering the rack was inspirational (truely),and shows what scratch-building is all about.

Which brings Me to My next point, has it been suggested or have You thought about publishing a book about this build? It would become a handbook for all future generations of Pocher and scratch-builders,showing the way the thought processes and skills and sheer tenacity can acheive amazing results.

The way that You explain processes is clear and concise,and easy to follow,and would(and does!) inspire others to have a go.

Again, glad that Your health has improved,and keep fighting the good fight!!

Keep Sticking!

Yours, Pete

Pete,

I'm embarrassed to respond to such generous praise; you are literally too kind. And I appreciate your good health wishes; I am finally improving at a measurable rate. Between that and the approaching good weather here on the East Coast, I am sure I can get longer hours on the build. Creeping up on finish paint and then assembly.

I see you are new here so you have the advantage of me sir. I have not publicly entertained a thought about book-writing. But in another (1:1) life I wrote many technical automotive articles and adverts which were published widely in the high performance enthusiast press. Surely my writings here put many non - Pocherites to sleep and only a few die-hards stick with me. I am the first to admit that this project has gotten way out of hand and far beyond what I envisioned when I first opened the box.

I will also mention that there are currently MANY books on classic Pochers available by the masters Dave Cox and Marvin Meit. Those are the guys I study. Surely more effective and beautiful stuff can be gleaned from them.

I am pleased if my stuff brought out your interest here and hope you are building a classic (especially a Roller!) and start posting a WIP or display of finished work. Can never have too many Pochers around in my view.

Thanks again and hope you stay interested and aboard.

C

[morty_3333]

Hi Mr. C!

Thank You for Your kind reply,You are correct that I am a Newbie to the site,and did not know about Your previously publishing life,although I should have guessed in the style of Your explanations that You had previously been involved in such endeavours.

It is the style of working that prompted Me to mention a book,very down to earth and easy to understand,and the extra detailing and modifications 'why and hows'!

I've been involved in model building of one form or another for over 50 Years (EEK!!! ),from free-flight gliders and power,control line aircraft, R/C Aircraft and Helicopters and Boats.and a

smattering of plastic modelling in amongst.

I 'rediscovered' Plastic modelling about 10 years ago,by way of Tamiya 1/6 'Big Scale' Bikes,and various aircraft and armour models,

Alongside plastic modelling,I still dabble in model boats,the discipline I've settled into being R/C Scale Sail,and I am currently builiding a 1/20 scale schooner from a german kit.

I have a Pocher K73 Alfa waiting patiently on top of a cupboard which I bought about 15 years ago, plus a asssortment of aftermarket accessories,which I had slated as a retirement project (8 years yet! ),but your build has tempted Me to get a Rolls for the retirement project and pull the Alfa out in the near future.

I still think I need a little more experience on auto modelling before I tackle a Pocher, I have a part-built 1/12 Bentley that I've been doing on the Airfix Forum on Hyperscale which has stalled at the moment,and I might do a Tamiya 1/12 Williams to get my detailing skills honed,which I will post on here (with all the other ones!)

I will continue to 'haunt' your Rolls topic, and continue to learn!!

Keep Sticking!!!

Cheers, Pete

[Codger]

I have a Pocher K73 Alfa waiting patiently on top of a cupboard which I bought about 15 years ago, plus a asssortment of aftermarket accessories,which I had slated as a retirement project (8 years yet! ),but your build has tempted Me to get a Rolls for the retirement project and pull the Alfa out in the near future.

Then you'll fit right in here. Alfas welcomed as well. There are two excellent Bentley builds by 'Limeypilot' and I think 'Briani', Lot's of advice there.

C

[Codger]

Small review...

It has been suggested to me by a prolific and expert Pocher-builder that I should show some of the earlier work done and a look at the future. This because, I was told, I present such fiddly 'how I did it' posts and the viewer may not have seen the early work which is largely fully finished and more fun to look at. Too much boring nuts and bolts. Also this is for viewers new to Pocher classics so they can decipher what the heck is going on. I plead guilty to starting out wanting a nice stock Pocher Rolls in the case to transitioning into the dark underworld of hacking, slicing and altering for an ever-evolving vision. So here is some stuff to see, some of which is buried in the thread and some not ever shown. Note that the firewall here is .250" too high on the stock spacers which is why the radiator brace and shutter control rod are angled up at the rear. Not anymore, they are level now with the channeled body.

A look at early mock-ups with high body, uncut doors, terrible stock ride height, tall roof and windscreen and a host of things I didn't want it to be:

Here's a late mock-up. Photo is the actual car with small photo editing adding the white sweep on the hood section. The rest is the real stuff. Lower, sleeker with channeled body, cut roof and 'screen, doors and sloped and sectioned trunk.

And here is the similar actual photo but with editing in the window frames, running boards and approximate colors for roof and body sides. Fenders and trunk are true colors.Just to assess if I was getting where I wanted it to be. Work is continuing and regular updates soon:

[noeyedears]

Which shape of the sweep are you aiming for? The white one or cream one?

[Pouln]

This serves as a reminder of the wonderful weathering you have done on the engine.

It is as if it is the real thing. Stunning!

[Codger]

Which shape of the sweep are you aiming for? The white one or cream one?

The white one is the real, final thing. That's actually all on the car. The cream photo editing presentation was done before I finalized the shape and before designing the belt line. That little tail on the bottom is the difference in the sweep.

[sharknose156]

yes the engine is very well weathered. This car looks like it is Bonhams certified !

[noeyedears]

The white one is the real, final thing. That's actually all on the car. The cream photo editing presentation was done before I finalized the shape and before designing the belt line. That little tail on the bottom is the difference in the sweep.

You have no idea how happy I am to hear that as a massively preferred the look of the shape on the white one.

[Codger]

Back to work...

Probably completely unnecessary but; while sanding the windscreen opening in the cowl for paint clearance, I decided I needed something to locate the chrome frame positively in the opening. This would ensure the frame was flush to the cowl surface and allow better gluing area. Painted body color, the flange will make sure the frame has no tiny gaps to the cowl.

Using .005 sheet and a .040 template of the chrome frame perimeter, I cut a 'mask' or flange for the chrome frame to rest on. A sort of stop. The trick was to not make the inner circumference overlap the frame and show. The next trick was to CA that flimsy .005 styrene to the cowl plastic. The final trick was to insure that inner frame (attached to the dashboard) closed up tight to the cowl with the flange sandwiched between.

The big guys that do brass frames don't do this; their fit is perfect first time out. Me, less so. First shot shows the overlap. Second pic from the rear shows how thin .005 is - you can see through it where it meets the cowl. Last photo is the chrome brass frame sitting flush to the cowl frame with no visible gap and no plastic showing around the inner edge.

[larchiefeng]

I'd forgotten just how much the top was cut down and how little glass area there is in the windshield, it almost looks like a chopped top opening on a Model A. The windshield frame and chrome looks great, better than the kit parts.

[Codger]

You have no idea how happy I am to hear that as a massively preferred the look of the shape on the white one.

Yup, I have 'No Eye Dear...' :lol: