NG899

The prop needed a fair bit of flash removing but I went with it having looked at the photos here: http://www.primeportal.net/hangar/mark_hayward/supermarine_s.6b_s1595/ and in the S.6B Haynes Manual and those of S.6A N248 on the web. It looks fine on the model. For an S.6, despite the kit providing decals for N247 and N248, the floats are S.6B floats as fitted to them as S.6As in 1931. For a 1929 contest S.6, The floats need reducing in size quite a bit, maybe milliput inside their fronts and rears and then sand to shape. I've mentioned the Haynes manual a few times and see you're in Switzerland, here's a link for a start: https://www.amazon.com/Supermarine-Rolls-Royce-Owners-Workshop-Manual/dp/1785212265 Keep top the great work Cheers Nick

You’re brave taking on that kit, we’ll done. In terms of accuracy, on the way south the lower surface white was oversprayed EDSG on 801 NAS aircraft on HMS Invincible*, as were the underwing serials, with the white code numbers being overpainted roundel blue as we’re the white areas of the roundels. The vinyl fin markings and pilot’s names were also removed and those areas oversprayed EDSG. Now, the order the toning down was done in has never been clarified but it is likely that each plane was removed from the flying roster and completely toned down before returning to flying duties. A lot of training sorties were flown en route south. *On HMS Hermes the toning down was done using 3ins or 4ins brushes, some of it on deck as the carrier approached Ascension. Hope that helps clarify things. Nick

From my experience of building one, the AMP S.6B is not a bad kit but needs some corrections making to it depending on the aircraft you’re making S1595 or S1596. For the race in September 1931, the rudder mass balances were moved to a higher location than they were set for the tests in August 1931. You’ll need to adjust (shorten) the chines aft of the step on the floats and make better front and rear bracing strut location points on the floats. SBS 0.3mm etched steel strips are excellent for the bracing wires, those in the kit being weak and under-nourished. In the cockpit the rudder pedals and floor mounted instrument panel need adding as does the shoulder/headrest pad inside the starboard fuselage and the throttle and mixture controls on the port side. I think you mentioned removing the wedge-shaped section ahead of the supercharger intake earlier, iirc. As for ‘Supermarine blue’ I opted for Vallejo 70.839 Ultramarine with a thin coat of Klear over the top. This matches best to my eyes with the blue used on the restored S.6A N248 in the Solent Sky museum which Ralph Pegram author of the Haynes Manual S.6B reckons has been finished in the correct shade of blue; S1595 in the Science Museum was painted a darker blue than it raced in before it was donated to that museum in 1932. Oh, and you’ve spotted the different colour boundaries on the starboard and port floats, yes? Hope that all helps, good luck with all your Schneider racers; great project! Nick

On XR525/G in Cosford the upper surface dark green (NATO green?) looks to be thinly sprayed over the Lichen Green whereas the undersides are the same dark green colour but applied more densely. That is what my Mk.1 eyeballs tell me anyway! Hope that helps Tiger 331. Cheers Nick

Superb Peter!!! I take you'll be adding the float chines and the small chines after the step later on. Don't you just wish one of these was flying still on The Solent. Cheers Nick

Sadly, my FA.2 refs do NOT include BAe drawings for the FA.2. BAe - FRS.1 drawings provide the 549.31 inches plus 22.71 inches extra for the pitot dimensions. Total 572.02 inches, 47ft 8ins. World Air Power Journal No.41, Sea Harrier - Cites: FRS.1 = 47ft 7 ins (i.e. they include the pitot); FA.2 = 46ft 6ins. WAPJ #41 also provides (radome) folded lengths: FRS.1 = 41ft 9ins; FA.2 = 43ft 2ins, which accounts for the FA.2's 13.75ins fuselage extension just after of the wing. In the absence of BAe FA.2 drawings, I'd be happy to work with their figures. Note: the FA.2's rounder radome is about 9ins shorter than the sharper one on the FRS.1. Measuring models (for ease/speed) FRS.1 = 4ft 8ins approx, FA.2 = 3ft 11ins approx. Hope this helps rather than opens another can of worms. Cheers Nick

BAe GA drawing of FRS.1 states 549.31 inches from tip of radome to end of the rear RWR antenna, the measurement taken along the fuselage datum line. The pitot extended a further 22.71 inches beyond the radome tip, angled down 3-degrees below the datum. I think I have the FA.2 GAs in a file at home. Will look at the weekend, when not working. Hope that helps for a start. Cheers Nick

Away from base until the weekend but I’ll get back to you then Ben. The pitot is a complicating factor and don’t forget the FA.2 had an extension plug of 13.25ins added behind the wings. Cheers Nick

(I posted the following, or something very similar to it from my iPhone earlier this morning but it seems to have not made it through the ether... Fingers knotted for this one.) Good morning Dennis and BM-ers, I hope life is treating you well Dennis, nice to now see one of your pics again too! Dennis - you're right, I was being lazy/forgetful in referring to the single-seater when this is about the two-seaters. Yes, the camera was relocated on the T.2/4/8 to a position under the rear cockpit on the port side, just ahead of the intakes. I'm sure you'll also correct anything I get wrong in the following! AFAIK... T2/4/8 and GR1/3 nose cones - The original and LRMTS did NOT swing but were secured by latches on both sides and slid off, taking care not to hit the camera (GR.1/3 // AV-8A/S) or LRMTS unit GR.3/T4. The nose cones on Sea Harrier FRS.1s and FA.2 DID swing to allow maintenance on the Blue Fox/Blue Vixen radars, their rectangular pivot joints are clearly visible on the port side cutting across where the nose cone joins the fuselage. No Radar on the T./2/4/8 or GR.1/3s!!! - They were NEVER fitted with radars. It's possible that some bright sparks at Ferranti / HSA / Bae / RAE / Farnborough may have contemplated this; even that drawings exist which Raymoco have had access to; if that's the case it would be interesting to know! Two T.4s - XW267 and XW269 iirc - were used for the (Forward Looking Infra Red) FLIR 'Nightbird' trails to give the GR7s their night attack capability. Their LRMTS units were replaced by a FLIR unit, which was the unit on top of GR7/9 and T10/12s noses, but not the noses of GR5s. Raymoco's Pegasus engines and nozzles - Looking at these, the first stage compressor blades look rather nice but are so far back in the kit as to be probably not worth the effort; considering the painting skills of most modellers these days. The engine tops and doors are a tad basic. The nozzles lack detail when compared with the kit ones. As the Dragons say: "I'm out, I'm not investing". In saying that I must make it clear that the reason I'm saying this on the basis of what I see and know means I do not trust Raymoco's research. I cannot vouch for the quality of their printed products, which may be stunning. I'm happy to discuss and work with Raymoco in the future to help them get things right. The offer is there. Drop me a PM here with you email address in it and we'll talk. What can modellers do now to improve their Kinetic Harriers? Engine Bays - If I was to open up the engine bays, I'd use the Black Dog resins, having seen them in the flesh: https://blackdog-model.com/a48117-1-48-harrier-gr-1-3-engine-electronics-902544854/ These were produced using photographs and data provided by Andy Robinson who worked on Harriers for the RAF and I know well. He has a long history of helping AM manufacturers, e.g. CMK and Black Dog, with UK subjects including UK 1st generation Harriers and Harrier IIs. General Improvements - As several items in the Kinetic boxes are from the first FA2 kit - which Kinetic acknowledge would be different if done now! - I suggest: 1. Black Dog's: https://blackdog-model.com/a48169-1-48-bae-harrier-sea-harrier-accessories-set-en/ OK, I'll admit it, I mastered these! (I get no royalties!) My motivation was to help modellers correct some basic errors with the SHAR, T-Harrier and GR1/3 / AV8A kits, and Ammo-MIG's AV-8S. The set includes: Improved Martin-Baker Mk.10H for the Sea Harrier FRS.1 and FA.2 > Other AM resin seats are fine for Tonkas or, with lightened side frames for the FRS.51, but no one had yet done the UK's SHAR seat. Improved Aden gun pods > For the missing blisters and vent holes The c.mid-1972 onwards standard 100-gallon tanks with the shorter asbestos phenolic material centre section > The kits' tanks are the original 100s with a longer mild steel centre section, fine on GR.1/1As from 1969 to late-71/mid-72; but not afterwards! Refer to photos if you're building an early jet!) Corrected and detailed pylons for the all 1st gen Harriers > The mounting holes in the wings also need their location changing as the kit pylons through their stores about 5mm too far forward; e.g. the tip of a 100-gal tank should be level with the rear of the small vent ahead of the starboard front nozzle. Fuel vent > The kit one is very basic. ADU-299 pylon adapters for the LAU-7A 'winder rails fitted on FRS.1 and Falklands GR.3s - the original large 'winged' pylon adapters used by SHARs until the mid/late-80s when the smaller winged type in the kit became standard across the fleet. Again, check photos! Air-to-air Refuelling Probe (Single-seat Harriers) > The kit's probe is rather anorexic and has a winged mounting which is much too small. A main driver for doing the above set was the Harrier SIG's SMW 2022 display, "Harriers in the Roaring Forties", hence the focus on items to help the team improve the FRS.1 and GR.3 kits. I ran out of time to include the items in the subsequent... 2. Black Dog set: https://blackdog-model.com/a48195-1-48-british-harrier-190gallon-tanks-ferry-wing-tips-en/ which includes: Improved 190-gallon tanks for the Sea Harrier FRS.1 and FA.2 > The kits' tanks have some inaccuracies in panels, etc. PLEASE NOTE, the 190-gal tanks were never carried by RAF GR.1/1A/3s or T.2/2A/4/4As. I've seen them spoil some otherwise superb models of those airframes on this site and others, and at shows. Sad. The extended two-seater air-to-air refuelling probe fitted to T.2/4/8 airframes > Yes, it doesn't put the probe tip in exactly the same place for the front seat pilot in a T-bird as a single seat pilot would have, but it does include the 20.5-inch extension in the tube. (if anyone knows why this length was finalised upon - rear seat pilot visibility of the probe tip and basket, if the pupil up front was making a pigs of tanking, or this was the aerodynamic limit of the extension due to flex of the tube when tanking or under high-G manoeuvres, or stress on the mounting point caused by the above, or a combination of all factors, I;d love to know! The ferry wing tips used between 1969 and approx mid-1973 on GR.1/1As and T.2/2As > Famously used for the Transatlantic Air Race in May 1969 but also for Squadron trips to Cyprus; they provided little aerodynamic or fuel-saving advantage and were a faff to fit; so you can guess why they stopped being used! I hope this helps all who land on this thread. As ever, if you have any Harrier-related questions, please shout in my direction! (The best way is a PM with your email address in it which I'll then reply to.) All the best Nick (Now all I have to do is hope it lands correctly when I press Submit, 🤞 3, 2, 1...)

I do not believe it. The April Fool emerges on Groundhog Day! Tim, lime you, looking at these, I’m out. I won’t be investing! I haven’t got a Scooby’s who Raymoco are but oh my they need to improve their research! I’m just dreading seeing T-birds sporting these wishful thinking. The long nose was a Laser Ranger and Marked Target Seeker, not an ARBS, while the original pointy nose cone had an F95 camera in it facing to port. Caveat emptor! (Unless you want to make a “what if” or Project Cancelled Harrier of course.)

GR1A or GR3, the original GR3 with the GR1 nose and no LRMTS plus no RWR on the fin or tail fin. Drop me a PM with your email address in it and I’ll send you somethings to help you out. Cheers Nick

For 65 Sqn Mustangs at Peterhead read Colin Downes book “By the skin of my teeth” Not easily available it seems but a cracking read. I was lucky enough to spend a day at the RAFM Hendon with him many years ago now. Nick

Fabulous work Peter! Interested to see that you have the supercharger cover in place - the front, downward-angled piece of the central section between the engine covers, which is on S6A N248 in the Solent Sky museum; I presume your references are better than mine. Any thoughts on what colour you'll be using for the "Supermarine Blue"? S1595 is in a darker blue than it was original was, bits of which can be seen on the floats. Ralph Pegram (author of the Haynes manual) stated in 2009 on a KeyAero thread that N248 was in the correct period shade for the 1931 race. Keep up the excellent work, looking forward to seeing progress and the completed model here, and at SMW 2024 in due course. All the best

There are photos of GR7s during Op Telic armed with PWIIs but not carrying TIALD pods - page 35 of the 'On Target Special' No.1 on Op Telic: ZD379/27 > outboard to inboard each side, station nos 1+9 = 540lb bomb; 2+6 = PWII; 1A+7A = BOL Rail; 3+5 = tank; gun pod; 4 (centreline) = empty. 379 has 5 PWII mission symbols on the port cockpit side, a line of 4 with another one under the leftmost. ZG510/81 > 1+9 = empty; 2+6 = tank; 1A+7A = BOL; 3+5 = EPWII*; gun pod; 4 (centreline) JRP (joint Reconnaissance Pod). 510 also has a line of 4 PWII mission symbols on the port cockpit side, with three more PWII markings below those spaced between the top row and with a 540/1000lb symbol offset to the left. Both those aircraft would have operated as a pair with their partner having a TIALD 400 pod, a risky option if the TIALD Harrier went u/s... I believe they didn't. @James G I can provide you with photos of both those a/c with those load outs if you drop me a PM with your email in it. ZD404/33 did not serve on Op Telic; only on Op Herrick as a GR7A (33A) where it famously wore Lucy's silhouette. I can provide you with a list of the GR7s which did serve on Telic if that helps. *EPWII (Enhanced Pave Way) was introduced on Op Telic as a UOR to provide a GPS guidance option for improved accuracy. Due to the wiring it could only be carried on stations 3 and 5, meaning the tanks moved outboard. EPW had two GPS discs, one above, one below the nose section between the canards and a square wiring track alongside the bomb casing. As I recall, the Eduard and ResKIt bombs marketed as PWIIs are EPWIIs, needing the discs and trunking removed for PWIIs; easier than adding them! I hope that helps

There isn’t one best www resource or even several best resources. Don’t despair, drop me a PM with your email address in it and I’ll send you lots of goodies to help your build! You’re thinking of a winter camo GR3 with the LRMTS nose, yes? I have a few candidates for you. Bye for now Nick

Hi wellsprop and all, Yes, it was for the intakes of the EDSG/White and overall EDSG SHARs. The paler intake interiors only began with 809's MSG/BG FRS.1s and then was adopted as LAG intake interiors on the overall DSG FRS.1s which started to appear in 1983. The same applies to Indian Navy FRS51s. I quote below from the Kinetic FRS.1 build notes I produced for the Harrier SIG, which I hope helps answer all RAF/RN 1st generation Harrier intake colours queries. Oh, and by the way, the only time an RAF GR.1/3 ever had pale grey intakes was after they moved to the RN SFDO at RNAS Culdrose. Otherwise always Dk Green inside the whole of the starboard intake and Dk Sea Grey inside the whole of the port intake, irrespective of whether they were in the original three-colour or later two-colour wraparound schemes. The same colours applied to the T.2/4. @wellsprop drop me a PM with your emial address in it and I'll send you some things to help you with you build of XZ457, also tell me which kit you'll be using. Cheers Nick Sea Harrier Intake Interior Colours: I’ve seen many otherwise very good models of Sea Harriers spoiled by modellers getting the intake nozzle colours wrong! The inside colour of Sea Harrier (and Harrier T.4N/T.8) intakes and the bell-mouth - from the Hawker Siddeley/BAe painting instructions - is as follows, for each scheme, with intake interior colours applied internally all the way back to the engine first stage compressor blades for everything inside the intakes and auxiliary intake doors: FRS.1s in Gloss Extra Dark Sea Grey/White > Gloss EDSG (BS381C:640) overall, except for the small white overlap on the lower lip of the intakes and where the fuselage lower surfaces’ white extended into the intake, the white stopping immediately behind the vertical boundary-layer spiller doors. FRS.1s in overall EDSG > EDSG overall, no white! The gloss finish soon became more satin/matt. FRS.1s in Satin Medium Sea Grey/Barley Grey (809 and 899 Squadrons, 1982) > Satin White overall, including the vertical boundary-layer spiller doors. The insides of the auxiliary intake door openings are MSG. The satin finish soon became matt. (It seems that while researching the colours for the Falklands loss-replacement SHARs the chaps at the RAE decided that lightening the intake interiors prevented them showing up head on at a distance as two big black "elephant ears".) FRS.1s, FRS.2s/FA.2s and T.4As, T.4Ns in overall Satin Dark Sea Grey > Satin Light Aircraft Grey (BS381C:627) overall, including the vertical boundary-layer spiller doors; and the insides of the auxiliary intake door openings. The overall DSG colour overlaps into the opening of each auxiliary intake door by about 1.5 inches. The satin finish soon became matt. Some of the original aircraft resprayed in DSG in late-1982 had DSG intake interiors - CHECK PHOTOS! FA.2s in overall Satin Medium Sea Grey > Satin White overall, including the boundary-layer doors and the insides of the auxiliary intake door openings. The overall MSG colour overlaps into the opening of each auxiliary intake door by about 1.5 inches. T.8s in Gloss Black > Satin Medium Sea Grey (BS381C:637) including the boundary-layer doors and the insides of the auxiliary intake door openings. The overall black colour overlaps into the opening of each auxiliary intake door by about 1.5 inches. So, please no more EDSG/W, EDSG overall or DSG overall FRS.1s with white intake interiors. Thank you!

Smithy, drop me a PM with your email address in it and I’ll send you lots of info on XZ455 in 1982, which served during the war as black-12 on Hermes but, post war, cross-decked to Invincible to become blue-000 of 801NAS. As I don’t use acrylics I cannot help you on your original question other than to say that in 72nd you’ll need to lighten the EDSG somewhat fir scale effect. Oh, and the whole inside of the intakes were also EDSG; no white or pale grey in there at all. Good luck Nick

Looks good. I hope it works well. Looking forward to seeing photos of the printed pod. Nick

809’s battle honours are listed on the port (only?) fuselage side too. Top line is 809 NAS Battle Honours (I think) then - 1941 Arctic, 1942 Malta Convoys, 1942 North Africa, 1943 Salerno / 809 crest / 1944 South France, 1944 Aegean, 1945 Burma, 1982 Falklands. The number 809 replaces the usual side code, it looks like ZM151, usually coded 017, is the airframe used for these markings. It would be great if they kept these colours but I doubt they will, but at least the Immortals are back in the game. Nick

Nice work! Even better if you set the FRS.1's ailerons to neutral. Kinetic dropped one with making them droop-able - only applicable to the ailerons on Harrier IIs and not first generation Harriers.

Igna - Yes, you are worth it, and don't let anyone tell you otherwise! 🤣

Yes, you can use the FA.2 wings on a GR.1/GR.3… BUT you’ll need to reinstate the dog-tooth on the leading edges and add back the missing vortex generator behind it both sides. You’ll also need to sand down the insides of the wing tips to get a better fit there and sand down the insides of the trailing edges so there is not a big step in the undersides between the wings and the flaps and ailerons. Where the wings fit the fuselage reduce the ridges in the fuselage in which the forward engine covers sit so things are flush. Dry fit and test fit are the watch words before committing to gluing things together. Hope that helps. Nick

The Airfix one is better but also has lots of issues, narrow width and shape of cockpit section, raised panel lines, etc., lots of sink marks and the fact the wings are plug in items rather than a complete upper unit mean you’ll never get rid of the joint line, no matter how often you fill and sand it. As a late friend of mine once said of it… “Take tube of filler in one hand and apply the kit to it.” How many Airfix SHARs have I built? (You may ask.) 15. 9 of those for 899’s decommissioning. Having then seen the Tamiya one, I was at least glad they were Airfix kits. If I never see milliput again, it’ll be too soon! 😂 if you wish to go 1/72 the Esci or Fujimi kits are the best. Happy hunting! Nick

Personally, I wouldn’t touch it with a barge pole - brick-line vortex generators, poor intake shapes, inaccurate wheels and lots more issues The Kinetic FRS1 is far better, with an all-encompassing decal sheet, though still has some issues, most of which can now be corrected using the Black Dog models resin replacement parts, set 48169. Drop me a PM with your email address if you need more help with the Kinetic kit or finishing options. Cheers Nick

The two photos are of the same jet with the same display load-out. It's probably XZ494 but that's TBC depending on the dates of the photos. Cheers Nick