Chris Thomas

Hi. You don't say what period you want your Typhoons to represent. Initially, 1942, they were Sky, Then in Nov/Dec 1942 they were white (along with the rest of the nose, a special identity marking). Unfortunately when the white noses were (quite quickly) abandoned the instruction to repaint the spinners was badly worded, resulting in some units painting Sky forward of the propeller blades and (if the instruction was followed) the rear part in one of the camouflage colours. I have taken an interest in Typhoon spinners for (gulp) half a century and I have never seen any first-hand information that 609's Typhoons where red/white or red/Sky. I have quite a few photos of 609 Typhoons in the first half of 1943 and the rear half of the spinner appears to match the camouflage colours. I know The illustrator in Warpaint No 5 (which I wrote) showed red/Sky for PR-F but research moves on and I stick by my analysis above. Instructions were issued to replace the two tone spinners with complete Sky but 609 chose to ignore this (one of their pilots told me that the squadron thought it was helpful in reducing their visibility over enemy territory). It appears that the camouflage was eventually replaced by a black rear half (see Wingleader No 21 pages 54-56) and this style continued until March 1944 at least and appears to have been adopted by 198 Sqn who shared Manston with 609 in late 43/early 44. Sky continued as the official colour until January 1945 when it was replaced by Night (black). However from spring 1944 to December 1944 there were many anomalies - in Normandy, roughly speaking, half were Sky and half were black or one of the camouflage colours. I have a section of a spinner from a Normandy wreck and the original colour was Night, overpainted by Sky and then by Dark Green! Going back to 609 - Beamont's Typhoon originally had a Sky spinner with a red spot in the centre - this was S/L Richey's personal marking and Beamont inherited his aircraft and after its 'white nose' it was very definitely repainted with the yellow spinner and cannons. Beamont confirmed this in conversation and also stated his later Wing Commander's Tempest 'R-B' (JN751)had a yellow spinner. Apologies to sparabara22 for bombarding him with too much information but I wanted to correct some of the misconceptions quoted above. And Troy, good and useful as the Camouflage and Markings series is, I have to point out out there are quite a few errors and omissions in the Typhoon/Tempest section; I can't speak for the others.

I'm pretty sure the Typhoon arrangement was similar to the Hurricane. Think Ive seen a drawing of the mechanism but can't locate it at present. Great idea on the upper engine cowling. I do not know of any changes in this area on early/late Typhoons or Tempests. Where the latter differs is in the contours of the radiator fairing see Wingleader 29 p.10. The Tempest fairing is deeper underneath and more rounded. Apparently this improved ditching characteristics but don't know if this was the reason for the change or an unexpected benefit.

Thanks Troy, good shout (as my son would say). It’s great to see someone put the info I’ve put out there to such good use. Especially with Hugh Dundas’ R7648; I remember struggling to read the name on the nose back in the late 70s and gradually more and more refs came to light and I met Sir Hugh was able to tap into his memories. Incidentally he was not flying during those (now) well-known film clips - it was one of his Sgt pilots.

I agree Paul. 197's ORB in various periods quotes serial AND code, just code, just serial and then back to just code. However I think the 'original' source may be the Typhoon loss list that I compiled for 'Typhoon and Tempest Story' which does quote OV-T for Wakeman's loss in JR366. I checked back through my records and found that it was discovered using the method of comparing pilots' logs which quote codes with serials from corresponding flights in the ORB. Unfortunately, there was only one match on this particular aircraft which was with 197 San from c.19 August 44 to its loss on 5 October (Wakeman flew it more than any other pilot) which makes its identity as 'T' rather tenuous. However there is some supporting circumstantial evidence which supports the link with 'T'. The previous and successive T's are know; the previous T was MN484 (damaged 17 August and shipped back to the UK for repair) and the next but one was MM955 which its first noted with 197 on 10 October - just 5 days after JR366 was lost. So JR366 fits nicely between the two other 'T's. JR366 would have had a 3-blade prop and the small tailplane. Although one of the very last 'car-door' Typhoons to leave the factory it went to Hawker in January 1944 for mods - which would have included fitting the sliding hood. In October 1944 it would have had 'D-Day' stripes under the fuselage only and 197 sported black spinners at the time. It would have carried 500lb or 1000lb bombs but never RP.

IWM photo shows JP666.

Yes, vents to extract CO fumes from the cockpit. Never seen any detail internally but think there they were associated with small extractor fans. Perhaps other fittings restricted the the starboard side to one only. They were introduced on the production line during the EJ /EK serial range in spring 1943. If you see earlier Typhoons with them they will probably be trials aircraft that had been reworked to the latest standard eg the night-fighter and the tropical trials aircraft.

I must say I am flattered that there is still interest in the Typhoon File, published in 1981, if somewhat appalled by the prices asked!. However it does have its shortcomings as much further information has come to light in the intervening years. A brief history of ‘histories’ might be helpful. The original Typhoon File was compiled using the Air-Britain technique established by Jim Halley and used for his Serial Registers and type histories in Aeromilitaria. The basis for each history was of course the Form 78 with details of fates added from the Form 1180s (accident cards) and the unit ORBs. This left a lot of unexplained gaps (filled on the Form 78s by ‘P(presumed)SOC 21.6.47’ - a paper exercise which wrote off anything that did not appear on a post-war census). I was soon working on what would become the ‘Typhoon and Tempest Story’ (1988) with Chris Shores and realising there would not be room for a full list of histories (publisher’s decision) decided to list all the accidental and operational losses. I was aided in this by limited access to casualty records and the discovery of some OR101s - a regular return from 2ndTAF squadrons stating aircraft received and lost - unfortunately incomplete and only used in the latter half of 1944. Jim Halley used the Typhoon and Tempest Story loss list when he revised the serial registers in the 1990’s. Enter Mr Bickers with his ‘Typhoon, the Combat History’. Mmm. The individual aircraft ‘histories’ without doubt have been lifted verbatim from the updated Air-Britain serial registers, with the omission of aircraft which (apparently) did not have use by a flying unit. Without acknowledgement or, as far as I know, permission. The ‘histories’ in the F.K.Mason Typhoon/Tempest book have so many omissions and inaccuracies they can be disregarded. Next came the 2ndTAF series which brought even more updates. Constant cross-referencing of records made me realise the scale of errors on the Form 78s and in the ORB. In the former, entries were quite often made on the wrong card - on the adjacent card, or one with a similar serial eg. JP and JR MN and MM, even R8 and RB. I have my own cards which track all the changes and include information from all sources, such as RAE and A&AEE cards, ATA deliveries, pilots logs, spotters logs (good ol’ Ray Strurtivant) etc. I have started a list of consolidated updates to the original Typhoon File - but am so far only up to JP495 and the fourth Wingleader book has priority. When complete I’ll make it available but I’m not sure how at present.

Good spot Gary - thank you. Also good decision to sink the indicators - too tempting for someone to swipe off with a duster ...

Ive no straightforward answer on this one Gary, but here is a quote from the Tempest V Pilot's Notes. The mechanical visual indicator consists of buttons which protrude through the upper surface of each wing when the corresponding wheel is down. I've looked through a lot of photos and only found one - prototype HM595 - with the "straight rod". If there are others please let me know. Many other photos show a small light-coloured (yellow?) disc in the appropriate position, flush with the wing. All these shots are distant. A good example of the latter is the well-known shot of Clostermann with his JF-E - look just in front of his right foot. I am wondering if the indicator was manually reset after landing - to which would prepare it for the next flight, keep it out of harm's way and remove a potential hazard from an area frequented by ground crew when refuelling and re-arming.

Cheers Bob

The exterior camouflage colour was wrapped round onto the interior - so mostly Dark Green but with an Ocean Grey segment; note that a thin strip of the exterior Dark Green ran under the intake lip (in the factory finish).

This might help. The Typhoon prototype never flew with the triple ejector exhaust. They were replaced by the design used on production Typhoons before the first flight.

Typhoon is JP504 OV-Z, Sqn Ldr Jacko Holmes’ aircraft, 197 Sqn Oct 1943. See Wingleader Photo Archive No 21. Probably black/white. The light stripes could be tape - they follow a line of rivets that could be prone to corrosion. Typhoons sometimes had markings like this to facilitate identification of leaders and forming up prior to takeoff.🛫

Just looked at my old spotter's notes and I logged WH453 in 'natural finish and dayglo' ie as per the colour photo above, with 60MU at RAF Leconfield on 30 July 1966, (World cup day IIRC). CT