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Alan P

Battle of the Atlantic Q and A

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Need some background? Questions, observations or information to share?

Feel free to post it here and our resident team of experten <_< will gladly help!

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I'd love to have a go at this but not sure what to have a go at.Great Grandfather was a Commodore Convoys - North Atlantic based out of Liverpool (HMS Eaglet) and was on many of the convoys (I think there's a list somewhere - but included ON179, HX220, HX 239...) - but haven't a clue on finding suitable ships in (pref) 1:350 - any suggestions appreciated?

Either merchantmen - or RN warships...

Also - would anyone mind if I post a 'continuation' thread on the 1:72 Type VIIC U-Boat that's about 80% done? Fits beautifully with the theme and would be impetus to finish. Wouldn't expect it to be in any end competition or anything...

Iain

Edited by Iain (32SIG)

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I'd love to have a go at this but not sure what to have a go at.Great Grandfather was Commodore Convoys North Atlantic based out of Liverpool (HMS Eaglet) and was on many of the convoys (I think there's a list somewhere - but included ON179, HX220, HX 239...) - but haven't a clue on finding suitable ships in (pref) 1:350 - any suggestions appreciated?

Either merchantmen - or RN warships...

Also - would anyone mind if I post a 'continuation' thread on the 1:72 Type VIIC U-Boat that's about 80% done? Fits beautifully with the theme and would be impetus to finish. Wouldn't expect it to be in any end competition or anything...

Iain

Hi Iain,

Could the WEM kit of the "H" class destroyer in 350th appeal to you?With minor mods it could be made into one that class that lead the Escort groups,ie Hesperus.There is also the WEM kit of the Starling,which was the leader of Captain Walkers group of "ace" U-boat killers.

Just a couple of ideas

Cheers Phil

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A 1/350 Captain class frigate can be made out of the Trumpeter destroyer escort USS England. WEM do the conversion parts for under a fiver and of course you might also like to use their etch for the Captains/Buckley class escorts. Other than scratch building I would think this must be the cheapest option for building a RN 1/350 escort.

Malcolm

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Thanks Phil - very tempting!

Have found some details of two of his convoys and going through the ships/escorts now - if anyone knows of any kits - particularly anything that represents SS Baharistan (Conv HX220) or SS Rangitata (Conv HX239)?

Escorts on the above two included:

HX220:

From New York to Halifax (HOMP - Dec. 24) - Warwick and 6 corvettes

From HOMP to WESTOMP (Dec. 27) - Warwick and 2 corvettes/also 2 other

From WESTOMP to 7°W (except for Beverly and Winchelsea who had to proceed to Iceland for fuel) - Beverly, Winchelsea and 5 corvettes.

Also, HMS Battler.

HX239:

From New York until relieved at HOMP: HMS Buxton and 4 corvettes.

HOMP to 45 42N 45 06W (May 19): HMS Lincoln and 3 corvettes.

Ocean Escort (from above pos. to Long 07W): HMS Keppel, Escapade, Garland and 5 corvettes.

Support Group (A.M., May 21 to noon May 24 in 53 32N 22 21W): HMS Faulknor, Onslaught, Impulsive, Pelican, Archer.

May 18, 44 49N 49 59W - Tug Growler and Northern Gem, until Long. 07W.

Also trying to see what ships from those listed on above webpages were Liberty ships - if I can find a positive match and an image, or two - I may have a go at the Trumpeter kit.

Iain

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Hi Iain,

I'd be happy for you to complete your U-Boat on an in-prog build - if you wouldn't mind not posting it in the GB Gallery when finished, as that is intended to be a showcase exclusively for GB builds?

Thanks, Al

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Hi Al,

Thanks - that would be great. I'll dig her out and dust her off tonight. :)

Iain

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Hi team of experten.

I'd like take part in the GB but the only thing I have in my stash that is remotely eligible is an Airfix Anson with the No.321 Squadron, RAF St.Eval, 1940 decal option. Would that do? :pray:

Thanks

Cliff

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the only thing I have in my stash that is remotely eligible is an Airfix Anson with the No.321 Squadron, RAF St.Eval, 1940 decal option. Would that do? :pray:

Apart from a minor identity crisis (not sure 321 were based at St Eval, but 217 operated Ansons from there early in the war) the role and operating capacity of the Anson fits the bill.

There's a potted history HERE. and HERE!

Edited by PHaTNesS

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Brilliant, I'll go with the 321 Squadron machine then, given that RAF Carew Cheriton is also on the Atlantic Coast!

Cheers

Cliff

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An Airfix PBY Catalina that seems to be a very old edition with some serious warpage of major parts as a crashed Cat. I can't be bothered to fix the warping so a crashed version on a dio has my preference. Is that allowed ? I have no clue about a/c serials and which ones crashed/got destroyed or not so I'd just use the kit decals. Is that OK ?

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Beverly, Winchelsea and 5 corvettes

Iain ,HMS Beverley could be kitbashed from the 400th Airfix four-stacker kit.She was one of the Fifty Destroyers for bases deal with the USA,and she took part in many Atlantic convoys,including the ill-fated HX229,which lost a third of the ships(I recommend Martin Middlebrook`s book "Convoy"which is an excellent account of this convoy.and a good read as well!)

Cheers Phil

Edited by Phil Reeder

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Thanks Phil,

Brilliant!

Town Class?

Could this fit the bill/be easily converted: WEM HMS Montgomery ?

Iain

EDIT - bog - doesn't appear to be in the WEM catalogue at present :(

Edited by Iain (32SIG)

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My plan is to build an early KGV from the Tamiya 1/350 PoW kit. Apart from the degaussing cables, and the UP-mounts, what must be changed?

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My plan is to build an early KGV from the Tamiya 1/350 PoW kit. Apart from the degaussing cables, and the UP-mounts, what must be changed?

I can`t think of anything else to turn the POW into a KGV. I will give it more thought ,and get back to you ,Denstore.

good luck,Phil

Edited by Phil Reeder

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Never having built the Tamiya 1/350 POW I am not really qualified to speak about the differences,but as far as the full size ships were concerned (in addition to the points you raised) KGV would not have been carrying the 20mm & 40mm Oerlikons. There were also differences in their radar fit. Could I suggest you try and find a copy of British Battleships of WWII by Raven and Roberts or the Ensign KGV even these don't cover all the differences but they are a big help. Many years ago I used the Tamiya 1/700 POW to build an early KGV and a DoY as at the North Cape, I found even when working in 1/700 there were appreciable differences between each member of the class.

Malcolm

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Thanks Phil!

A couple of other questions. What would be the best acrylic paint match for the grey these ships where painted in? And what is the colour showing trough due to wear in pictures? It looks like white or very light grey.

/Magnus

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Thanks Phil!

A couple of other questions. What would be the best acrylic paint match for the grey these ships where painted in? And what is the colour showing trough due to wear in pictures? It looks like white or very light grey.

/Magnus

Ah Magnus are you thinking of that marvellous colour photo of the KGV I have as my avatar?That was taken in Jan 1941 at Halifax NS ,the colours showing beneath the Ap597b med grey are her orginial Dazzle pattern camo that was applied soon after completion,the colours consisted of Lt grey,and very dark grey,this scheme was painted over ,when she joined the Home fleet in late 1940,and it was worn off the hull, by a rough passage across the N. Atlantic.

As regards the best acrylic match for the AP507B med grey ,I would suggest Citadel paints "Codex grey",but you do need to lighten it a touch

hope this helps a bit

cheers ,Phil

Edited by Phil Reeder

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Ah Magnus are you thinking of that marvellous colour photo of the KGV I have as my avatar?That was taken in Jan 1941 at Halifax NS ,the colours showing beneath the Ap597b med grey are her orginial Dazzle pattern camo that was applied soon after completion,the colours consisted of Lt grey,and very dark grey,this scheme was painted over ,when she joined the Home fleet in late 1940,and it was worn off the hull, by a rough passage across the N. Atlantic.

As regards the best acrylic match for the AP507B med grey ,I would suggest Citadel paints "Codex grey",but you do need to lighten it a touch

hope this helps a bit

cheers ,Phil

Thanks again. Yes, that photo is nice. I think I've seen others as well. And there are a couple of PoW and Duke of York in the Tarrant book, I believe.

I will check out the Citadel paint. I just wish Vallejo would make a series of colours for ship builders.

Thanks,

Magnus

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HMS Winchelsea?

That's my dad's ship. VW class converted to long range escort. My dad was a HO rating W/TEL. It was strange to think that tiny WWI vintage destroyer was his favourite ship - with a happy crew. On the Halifax convoys one ship would ask the Commodore's permission to "dispose" of some depth-charges when crossing the Newfoundland Banks and then distribute the haul of fish they netted around the convoy.

My dad only told me of one action. The convoy was followed by a neutral ship that was lit up like a Christmas tree and had "EIRE" in lights on the side so no U-boat skipper could mistake it's country of origin. After been told several times to go another way the Commodore ordered the Winchelsea to take it. All the crew got a share of the prize money; my dad used his to buy a Jaguar sports car after the war.

They did get a mention in "Make a Signal" when they had escorted a tanker "Texas" to join up with a convoy they signalled "Please tell us. What does lie deep in the heart of Texas?".

Back came the reply:"Our Thanks".

Is there a model of the VW anywhere - I have a few ref pictures of her. Someone is about to do a card model in 1/200th which I could use

Edited by Plastic Bonsai

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As far as I am aware there are two VW class destroyers kits available

The plastic Tamiya 1/700 scale kit of Vampire in a 1930's configuration and the the white metal Skytrex 1/350 kits of which there are in three versions they are as built,WAIR & LRE.

A point you might want to consider that even as built there were differences within the class which tended to depend on builder.

I am intending to build a WAIR for the GB from the Tamiya kit probably HMS Vanity.

Denstore one obvious difference between KGV and POW which I forgot to mention is the knuckle which of course is the main distinguishing feature between the two ships but I am sure you are aware of this. Tamiya didn't bother moulding separate hulls for the 1/700 kits but in that scale it's quite easy to modify the hull.

Malcolm

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As far as I am aware there are two VW class destroyers kits available

The plastic Tamiya 1/700 scale kit of Vampire in a 1930's configuration and the the white metal Skytrex 1/350 kits of which there are in three versions they are as built,WAIR & LRE.

A point you might want to consider that even as built there were differences within the class which tended to depend on builder.

I am intending to build a WAIR for the GB from the Tamiya kit probably HMS Vanity.

Denstore one obvious difference between KGV and POW which I forgot to mention is the knuckle which of course is the main distinguishing feature between the two ships but I am sure you are aware of this. Tamiya didn't bother moulding separate hulls for the 1/700 kits but in that scale it's quite easy to modify the hull.

Malcolm

Knuckle? Are we talking about the bow?

And thanks for your input. All help is both needed and wanted,

Magnus

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Hi,

POW had a knuckle unlike the other members of the class. The famous photograph of her entering Singapore shows it clearly,for some reason I don't seem to have a bow shot of her other than ones taken at distance,I've on board,aerial and stern quarter shots but no clear bow shots.

For the photograph of her entering Singapore use this link

http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:HMS...n_Singapore.jpg

It can be seen running from the bow to approximately B turret, as I don't model in 1/350 I've not taken any great notice of the Tamiya kit therefore I am unaware of how Tamiya have dealt with this detail differance.They may have based the hull on KGV as the did with the 1/700 kit.

Malcolm

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