Airfix 1/72 H.P Victor B.2/K.2 question.

[Evil_Toast_RSA]

A rather simple question I hope. Built the 1/48 Hurricane from Airfix, and you can actually build all 3 variants (Mk.1/Trop/Sea) out the box with all the parts included (how accurate they are is naturally a different kettle of scorpions), just add decals and done. Can you do the same with the Victor K.2 boxing? If not, how complicated would it be to convert a K.2 to a B.2/1? Think the K.2 has a wing lengthening insert to start off with, but looking for K.2 builds is not as easy as one would think based on my browsing history 🤔.  

[Graham Boak]

I suspect there are few K2 kits around because most Victor enthusiasts already had the Matchbox/Revell kit so it was the B/SR/BS versions that they were most interested in.  I have the Blue Steel - it does not have the parts for a standard bomber or a K in it.

 

The K2 would need a wing shortening insert...

[Hook]

I just wish Airfix would repop the SR/K.2.

 

Cheers,

 

Andre 

 

[71chally]

The Airfix K.2 is the harder kit to find by a long shot, unsure why but possibly because the B.2 kit had two releases but then the K.2 was hard to find before that second B.2 release.  I would be surprised if Airfix don't re-release the K.2 at some point though.

 

It's not an impossible conversion, the outer wings are shorter on the K.2 which I think is facilitated in the kit, but there are other minor differences and of course the edition of the centre HDU bulge and the two wing pods.

There was a really good thread on here about victor differences, will try and find it.

 

 

Edit, this is the one I forgot that it's about B.1 v B.2 differences, but it might contain relevant info.

 

 

Edited February 21, 2024 by 71chally

[Evil_Toast_RSA]

14 minutes ago, 71chally said:

The Airfix K.2 is the harder kit to find by a long shot,

 

 

And this is the fun side effect of living in the bottom end of the world! The B.2 is roughly £80 here new, but a shop is selling the K.2 for £33 on clearance. So yeah, if I can build a B.2 from it, with £7 for a Xtradecal sheet added, I'm still well ahead. If there's no bombs or a Blue Steel, I'm fine with that.

 

I really hope it was a case of all the B.2 sprues + extra sprue to cover the conversion, and not a case of Sprue X is replaced by Sprue Y like Hasegawa does. 

[71chally]

Sorry misread your post  @Evil_Toast_RSA , if you can grab the K.2, especially at that price, do so!

 

Both my kits are in storage, but from memory the K.2 kit has the extra sprues over the B.2 kit so you will have the B.2 bomb doors etc included, but I'm not sure that you get the original clear plastic parts sprue and if so it may just come with the K.2 wingtips which would require extending the outer wings a bit.

[Evil_Toast_RSA]

@71chally I feel my rubber arm getting twisted here! But I need to be dead sure, and am really hoping someone here has both and can confirm. Because I have almost no interest in flying petrol stations of any sort, and the resale potential is clearly not in my favour if I can't pull this off. 

[Navy Bird]

I'm currently building the Airfix B.Mk.2(BS) and it only has the one set of wingtips for the B.2 (although it does have the closed bomb bay doors in addition to the Blue Steel fairing). If the K.2 has shorter wingtips, then I do not believe it is possible to build a K.2 from this kit (which also does not have any of the refueling hardware and baskets, etc.).

 

I know you're asking if a B.2 can be built from the K.2 kit (the opposite of my situation) but I thought I would add my comment in case someone reading this thread had a question about going the other way (B.2 to K.2). For what it's worth...   

 

Cheers,

Bill

 

PS. Rather nice kit, by the way.

[Evil_Toast_RSA]

@Navy Bird you could actually help out here. 

 

What other parts are on the sprue with the wing tips in your B.2? Would they be considered general parts across all variants (engines/landing gear/whatever) or on a sprue with only wing parts (that could theoretically be swapped out in its entirety in a K.2 boxing)?

 

Also, would the canopy have changed shape? The K.2 wing tips are clear parts, but no idea if they reside with the canopy parts or on their own little sprue with other clear parts specific to the B.2. 

[71chally]

1 hour ago, Evil_Toast_RSA said:

@71chally I feel my rubber arm getting twisted here! But I need to be dead sure, and am really hoping someone here has both and can confirm. Because I have almost no interest in flying petrol stations of any sort, and the resale potential is clearly not in my favour if I can't pull this off. 

I would buy it off you in a heart beat!

 

Conversion topics are always interesting, with enough work you can make anything look like something else, but it depends on how straightforward the builder wants to keep things.  Back in the day I saw some fantastic and accurate B.2 conversions from the Matchbox Victor K.2, using balsa wood, dope and filler.

However I do get that it is far more straightforward if the bits were in the box, extending the wings is definitely harder work than reducing them.  At least with the B.2 wing tips they can be reduced.

 

PS I have literally just sold a B.2 for £45.

[71chally]

You get both wingtips in the K.2 box, there are two sets of clear parts, only one in the B.2 box.

The B.2 wingtips are on the same sprue (M) as the canopy,  the K.2 tips are on a new sprue (N) with the camera crate windows for the SR.2 option.  These clear parts which are the upper and outer part of the wings incorporate the shortening of the outer wing, along with the new solid parts in this kit.

[Evil_Toast_RSA]

5 minutes ago, 71chally said:

You get both wingtips in the K.2 box, there are two sets of clear parts, only one in the B.2 box.

The B.2 wingtips are on the same sprue (M) as the canopy,  the K.2 tips are on a new sprue (N) with the camera crate windows for the SR.2 option.  These clear parts which are the upper and outer part of the wings incorporate the shortening of the outer wing, along with the new solid parts in this kit.

 

So. It sounds like it's actually possible then, or at least to cover the major components so I don't have to try scratchbuilding new wing parts? Lumps, bumps and blades I can handle. Lengthening major parts, not so much.

 

20 minutes ago, 71chally said:

I would buy it off you in a heart beat!

 

 

 

Postage would be a fun experience! Or if you know someone coming here on holiday with plenty space in their luggage 😄!

 

 

[Adam Poultney]

The box labelled as a Victor B.Mk.2[BS] can build a Victor B.2R (same thing), and only that variant. This is a Victor equipped with Blue Steel.

It contains one variant sprue with all the parts needed to fit Blue Steel, and a Blue Steel Missile. This sprue is also included in the first issue of the new tool Vulcan kit. 

 

The box labelled as a Victor K.2/SR.2 can build only either a K.2 or SR.2. It cannot be used to build a B2.R.

This box contains two variant sprues. A clear sprue provides the shorter wingtips of the K2 (3ft smaller span, 1.5ft from each wing) and part of the camera array for the SR2. A large normal plastic sprue provides all the other details for a K2 or SR2. 

 

 

If you wish to build a pure bomber, it is more involved than simply swapping the bomb bay out, there were a lot more modifications installed at the same time as Blue Steel that would have to be undone. Off the top of my head, these are:

• Remove anti shock bodies (Airfix have helpfully moulded these as seperate parts)
• Remove oil cooler air scoops located under each intake
• Remove two of the four flow control vanes from each intake
• Replace the nose tip with early style*
• Replace the APU intake in the base of the fin with the early style*
• Replace the outer wing section drooped leading edges with the early style leading edge flaps (except XM714-718)

* Resin parts available 

 

There is a B1 conversion set available, recently reworked for the Airfix kit. This would be quite an involved conversion, but not impossible.

[Navy Bird]

2 hours ago, Evil_Toast_RSA said:

@Navy Bird you could actually help out here. 

 

What other parts are on the sprue with the wing tips in your B.2? Would they be considered general parts across all variants (engines/landing gear/whatever) or on a sprue with only wing parts (that could theoretically be swapped out in its entirety in a K.2 boxing)?

 

Also, would the canopy have changed shape? The K.2 wing tips are clear parts, but no idea if they reside with the canopy parts or on their own little sprue with other clear parts specific to the B.2. 

 

You can see pictures of all the sprues here:

 

https://www.modellversium.de/kit/artikel.php?id=11973

 

Cheers,

Bill

[Adam Poultney]

2 hours ago, Evil_Toast_RSA said:

 

So. It sounds like it's actually possible then, or at least to cover the major components so I don't have to try scratchbuilding new wing parts? Lumps, bumps and blades I can handle. Lengthening major parts, not so much.

No, you still need the blue steel parts (easily obtained from an Airfix Vulcan).

My previous post goes over the mods to make a B.Mk.2 pure bomber. These can be done to either box just as easily. 

[Evil_Toast_RSA]

Well, this seems to settle it for me. Can't say I was not expecting this answer, but still would of loved to cobble one together without paying a kidney to do it! 

[71chally]

Airfix K.2 sprue shots here,

 

https://www.super-hobby.com/products/Handley-Page-Victor-K.2-SR.2.html

 

Clear sprues and extra tanker only sprue

 

 

[Evil_Toast_RSA]

Jeez, thanks for the actual sprue pics! Okay, some terrible picture editing coming up. Brace yourselves! 

 

Instructions I will be referring too:

 

B.2: https://www.scalemates.com/products/img/5/5/1/966551-92-instructions.pdf

 

K.2: https://www.scalemates.com/products/img/4/1/8/1121418-99-instructions.pdf

 

 

 

Ignore the stuff crossed out in red (K.2 specific). B.2 wingtips in green included in K.2 box. Parts D1 & D2 already on K.2 wing sprue (https://www.super-hobby.com/products/Handley-Page-Victor-K.2-SR.2.html#gallery_start). So wings kinda covered on this issue. 

 

As to @Adam Poultney list above: 

 

1) Remove anti shock bodies (Airfix have helpfully moulded these as seperate parts) - Ignore steps 120 - 123 on K.2 assembly instructions, fill any holes/indentations as needed.

 

2) Remove oil cooler air scoops located under each intake - Ignore Steps 100 - 103 on K.2 instructions, fill indentations

 

3) Remove two of the four flow control vanes from each intake - Unsure here, Steps 34&35 of K.2 instructions I'm assuming needs to be amended? If so, which 2? 

 

4)  Replace the nose tip with early style* - Part H7 Step 99 K.2 instructions is what your referring too? See pic below, it looks like according to that particular artist it either fine as is, or a simple slice and dice job on the lower section (red circled). Yes, I know, dangerous waters I'm treading here, and I feel the cold hands of assumption getting ready to pull me under relying on artwork! 

 

5) Replace the APU intake in the base of the fin with the early style - Same as point 4, art work seems to tell me they are similar, at least on a close enough scale, unless I'm looking at the wrong item? Green circled

 

6) Replace the outer wing section drooped leading edges with the early style leading edge flaps (except XM714-718) - Don't think this is possible with my level of expertise, unless XM714-718 have the leading edges in question as is in the kit already? Please clarify. 

 

 

Unless I'm terribly far off, that's about as close as one can get to make a non Blue Steel Victor out the K.2 box based on what's been presented here so far? I'm actually rather thinking it's actually possible, and as ;long as nobody looks too close, I can pass it off. Thoughts?  

Edited February 22, 2024 by Evil_Toast_RSA
editing again

[Evil_Toast_RSA]

Another decal sheet/artwork I've been looking at. https://www.hannants.co.uk/product/X72265?result-token=uDXy4 - XL513 & XL193 in particular, think they've been swopped around, but compared to the B.1's presented, I'm still thinking the bulge by the tail is the APU in question? 

[Adam Poultney]

1 hour ago, Evil_Toast_RSA said:

Unless I'm terribly far off, that's about as close as one can get to make a non Blue Steel Victor out the K.2 box based on what's been presented here so far? I'm actually rather thinking it's actually possible, and as ;long as nobody looks too close, I can pass it off. Thoughts?  

I'll write up a more detailed guide on how to make a non blue steel bomber from either kit (you don't need any of the variant parts) later when I get in from uni. 

[71chally]

7 hours ago, Evil_Toast_RSA said:

Another decal sheet/artwork I've been looking at. https://www.hannants.co.uk/product/X72265?result-token=uDXy4 - XL513 & XL193 in particular, think they've been swopped around, but compared to the B.1's presented, I'm still thinking the bulge by the tail is the APU in question? 

The bulge at the base of the fin is the intake scoop for the tail de-icing system, the APU was located in the stb'd inner wing with a retractable air scoop.

 

That link to the Victor thread in post 4 is worth looking at, having just re-read it it contains some good info on B.2 and B.2(BS) differences, particularly from @sloegin57

 

I'm away from my references at the  moment, but could the B.2(BS) not be fitted with normal bomb doors, in case of re-role in conventional strike capacity?   If so This would mean you could build from the box without finding the BS bits or having to convert anything?   

There is the SR.2 option aswel, they looked pretty good without the underwing tanks. 

 

XL161 Victor SR2 RAF 543 SQN by Urs Baettig, on Flickr

[stever219]

41 minutes ago, 71chally said:

The bulge at the base of the fin is the intake scoop for the tail de-icing system, the APU was located in the stb'd inner wing with a retractable air scoop.

 

That link to the Victor thread in post 4 is worth looking at, having just re-read it it contains some good info on B.2 and B.2(BS) differences, particularly from @sloegin57

 

I'm away from my references at the  moment, but could the B.2(BS) not be fitted with normal bomb doors, in case of re-role in conventional strike capacity?   If so This would mean you could build from the box without finding the BS bits or having to convert anything?   

There is the SR.2 option aswel, they looked pretty good without the underwing tanks. 

 

XL161 Victor SR2 RAF 543 SQN by Urs Baettig, on Flickr

There would be quite a bit of work to convert back from Blue Steel to free-fall weapon(s); the Blue Steel was suspended from a trapeze-like structure inside the weapons bay which would have to come out, as would the environmental control pack for the weapon.  The Victor weapons bay doors were more complex than those of the Vulcan, having sections that matched the upper profile of the weapon which slid inside the outer/upper sections of the doors whilst the weapon was in position and slid down to restore the original profile once Blue Steel had been launched.

[Adam Poultney]

12 hours ago, Evil_Toast_RSA said:

1) Remove anti shock bodies (Airfix have helpfully moulded these as seperate parts) - Ignore steps 120 - 123 on K.2 assembly instructions, fill any holes/indentations as needed.

Correct

12 hours ago, Evil_Toast_RSA said:

2) Remove oil cooler air scoops located under each intake - Ignore Steps 100 - 103 on K.2 instructions, fill indentations

Correct

12 hours ago, Evil_Toast_RSA said:

each intake - Unsure here, Steps 34&35 of K.2 instructions I'm assuming needs to be amended? If so, which 2? 

 

https://imgur.com/s4kdU29

12 hours ago, Evil_Toast_RSA said:

5) Replace the APU intake in the base of the fin with the early style - Same as point 4, art work seems to tell me they are similar, at least on a close enough scale, unless I'm looking at the wrong item? Green circled

As @71chally has pointed out i misidentified this feature, it's to do with the anti icing system. The artwork on the Xtradecal sheet doesn't show this difference properly. The profile of XL158, I think, should be shown with Blue Steel.

This photo of my models shows the differences.

 

12 hours ago, Evil_Toast_RSA said:

6) Replace the outer wing section drooped leading edges with the early style leading edge flaps (except XM714-718) - Don't think this is possible with my level of expertise, unless XM714-718 have the leading edges in question as is in the kit already? Please clarify. 

I wouldn't attempt this in 1/72. I do not think it is impossible, but I think it would be very difficult. 

The original design was a leading edge flap (hinged nose type, not a conventional slat)

 

Ref: https://aviation.stackexchange.com/questions/65141/do-leading-edge-flaps-increase-the-critical-angle-of-attack

 

This image of the ill-fated XH668 (uniquely identifiable by the B1 style fin and as the only B2 airframe with the enlarged scoops under the nose) shows the leading edge flaps in the deployed position. 

Incidentally, this also shows the starboard intake without any vanes at all and the port side with just the two. 

https://www.key.aero/article/handley-page-victor-prototype-crash-and-investigation

 

Almost all Victors were refitted with a fixed drooped, and extended, leading edge on the outer sections of the wings. This is what is represented in the kit. 

The final batch of Victors, XM714-718, was built with the later style fixed drooped leading edges. Hence, these are ideal as you do not need to modify the leading edges. 

 

In this thread I made the equivalent modification for a Victor B1 in 1/144 scale. 

 

 

You also should omit the refueling probe and fill the slot for it. 

 

There are a few other lumps and bumps over the kit that you may need to remove. Just check if you can see them in reference photos, and there should be plenty of them for early Victors. 

 

You can purchase resin parts for the nose tip and tail intake here:

https://air-graphics.uk/shop/ols/products/ac-032-hp-victor-b2-early-mod-fin-conversion

 

They also have this pretty decent looking decal set for early Victors. 

https://air-graphics.uk/shop/ols/products/hp-victor-b1-b1a-and-b2

 

12 hours ago, Evil_Toast_RSA said:

Unless I'm terribly far off, that's about as close as one can get to make a non Blue Steel Victor out the K.2 box based on what's been presented here so far? I'm actually rather thinking it's actually possible, and as ;long as nobody looks too close, I can pass it off. Thoughts?  

The K2 kit is every kit as suitable as the B2 kit for an early one. You don't need any parts from the variant sprues.

[Adam Poultney]

4 hours ago, 71chally said:

I'm away from my references at the  moment, but could the B.2(BS) not be fitted with normal bomb doors, in case of re-role in conventional strike capacity?   If so This would mean you could build from the box without finding the BS bits or having to convert anything?   

XM717 was the only one, as far as I'm aware, to have the conventional bomb bay reinstated during the Blue Steel era. It was used for training.

Link

Obviously they all later either had it reinstated to fit cameras on the SR.2 or had the K2 bits put in.

[Evil_Toast_RSA]

Well, this was certainly educational, thanks a million for your input @71chally and @Adam Poultney. Filing this thread away under R&D and will refer to it when I get round to pulling this off! Now to hopefully buy the kit this week..... 

 

[EDIT] - just in case the urge to build a diorama strikes me, did the B.2 use a more conventional nuclear bomb, think the Blue Danube was withdrawn at this point, but the Yellow Sun or some US weapon? 

Edited February 23, 2024 by Evil_Toast_RSA