Jan Pedersen Posted July 29, 2023 Share Posted July 29, 2023 Hi all In my research for building Spitfire Vb AB989/SD-C from 501 SQN., flown by the dane Jørgen Kjeldbæk in Normandy 1944, I can only find one picture, where it seems to be a non-standard camo pattern? Can anyone point me in a direction, where to find more information regarding this scheme? I can´t seem to find anything regarding this... 😟 Thanks in advance 🙂 B.R. Jan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phoenix44 Posted July 29, 2023 Share Posted July 29, 2023 Can't gdlp with the camo but interesting photo. The froptank looks to be absolutely covered in oil and the head rest is missing from the back plate in the canopy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Troy Smith Posted July 29, 2023 Share Posted July 29, 2023 1 hour ago, Jan Pedersen said: I can only find one picture, where it seems to be a non-standard camo pattern? Can anyone point me in a direction, where to find more information regarding this scheme? I'd suggest replacement engine cowling panel below the exhausts. Note the hard line at the rear of this panel, and on the wing fillet, on the plane behind the Dark Green sweeps down over this. HTH Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jan Pedersen Posted July 29, 2023 Author Share Posted July 29, 2023 Thanks for your replies. Troy, a replacement cowling could be the answer, although i´m not able to find other pictures of cowling panels with this pattern... 🤔 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Troy Smith Posted July 29, 2023 Share Posted July 29, 2023 20 minutes ago, Jan Pedersen said: although i´m not able to find other pictures of cowling panels with this pattern... it's from a mirror pattern aircraft, note similarity to the starboard pattern note the A/B patterns here, and the front aircraft cowl panel It's likely from an old airframe, as the alternating A/B patterns were dropped from production in 1941. HTH 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brewerjerry Posted July 29, 2023 Share Posted July 29, 2023 Hi interesting so cowl was likely from one of the first MkV spitfires off topic but i have somewhere a photo of a UK asr lysander with a TT lower cowl cheers jerry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham Boak Posted July 29, 2023 Share Posted July 29, 2023 I disagree that this is simply from the opposite side/mirror pattern. They don't match. A couple of points to consider: sometimes Ocean Grey does fade/appear very light. I recall Paul Lucas getting into a lot of trouble with this is an old magazine article. The second light patch however seems to match the spill pattern from the petrol tank: is this just a very worn aircraft where the petrol has removed all the paint? I can't say I've ever seen anything like it elsewhere. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jan Pedersen Posted July 29, 2023 Author Share Posted July 29, 2023 Yes, I just can´t get it right in my head too. Especially the front/lower grey part on the cowling does not match up to anything when I look at A/B patterns. The plane in the background looks more standard to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Troy Smith Posted July 29, 2023 Share Posted July 29, 2023 1 hour ago, Graham Boak said: I disagree that this is simply from the opposite side/mirror pattern. They don't match. there is a hard colour change at the fuel tank/wing fillet, on the engine panel edge. 42 minutes ago, Jan Pedersen said: Especially the front/lower grey part on the cowling does not match up to anything when I look at A/B patterns. if it's that old, it's liley to have been repainted from Dark Earth. it may not be a precise match, but you have a Dark Green band in the middle of that panel the patterns can vary a little for the pattern 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PatG Posted July 30, 2023 Share Posted July 30, 2023 There were not that many Vb's operating in June 1944 and I think most were either 'spotters' or ASR as I asked this question previously. As for the camouflage I can't see any reason why it would differ from other Spits at the time so presume this is a case of field mods to fit new panels without aligning the panels paint work to the overall scheme, but just a thought. Pat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jan Pedersen Posted July 30, 2023 Author Share Posted July 30, 2023 Again thanks for your replies. 🙂 I totally agree, that it MUST be some kind of replacement panel, and thereby misalignment in the pattern. Especially due to the sudden stop for the grey at the wingroot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hornet133 Posted July 30, 2023 Share Posted July 30, 2023 PatG There were six Sqns of LF.Mk.Vbs operating in two wings as part of 11 Group during the D-Day invasion. These were fighter aircraft and not 'Spotters or ASR machines'. They were still in service as the LF.Mk.Vb was 30 mph faster than the Spitfire Mk.IX at sea level due to it's specially boosted low altitude engine. Still very useful for low level operations. 7 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Wilko Posted July 30, 2023 Share Posted July 30, 2023 20 hours ago, Phoenix44 said: The drop tank looks to be absolutely covered in oil If one remembers,wartime Merlins were expected to have a combat "life" of around 25 hours,so tended to be built somewhat leaky. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Postlethwaite Posted July 30, 2023 Share Posted July 30, 2023 I think what we're seeing here is a new grey panel where an erk was charged with painting the green section and carefully lined up his edges with the upper cowling and then roughly made up the rest from memory! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DennisTheBear Posted July 30, 2023 Share Posted July 30, 2023 2 hours ago, Mark Postlethwaite said: I think what we're seeing here is a new grey panel where an erk was charged with painting the green section and carefully lined up his edges with the upper cowling and then roughly made up the rest from memory! That would make a great dio. Spit with cowls of, two erks arguing over the correct I attern to make.😂 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PatG Posted July 31, 2023 Share Posted July 31, 2023 Aha, I'd forgotten about the Vb's still with 11 Group so thank you for reminding me, and as you say they were somewhat faster at low level than the IX's. Thank you. Pat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham Boak Posted July 31, 2023 Share Posted July 31, 2023 Peter Cargill wrote an excellent book about the Spitfire Mk.V, which was especially strong on the later stages of its career. It (the LF Mk.V) was not only faster than the Mk.IX, but outclimbed almost all other Spitfire variants - at least up to 5000ft. EDIT: The LF MK.V was the pocket rocket, not the earlier ones. Added to the text. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FinnAndersen Posted August 1, 2023 Share Posted August 1, 2023 this is off topic, but what amazes me is what Supermarine was able to press out of the original Mitchell design ( the mk V and IX) and then when they tried to make it better with the Spiteful, how they failed. Quill states the the original wing was better than they thought and the new laminar wing was worse than they had anticipated. Such are the fortunes of war and engineering, neither is an exact science. /Finn 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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