Spitfire Vb Normandy - Non-standard camouflage scheme

[Jan Pedersen]

Hi all

In my research for building Spitfire Vb AB989/SD-C from 501 SQN., flown by the dane Jørgen Kjeldbæk in Normandy 1944,

I can only find one picture, where it seems to be a non-standard camo pattern?
Can anyone point me in a direction, where to find more information regarding this scheme?

I can´t seem to find anything regarding this... 😟

Thanks in advance 🙂
B.R. Jan

 

 

 

[Phoenix44]

Can't gdlp with the camo but interesting photo. The froptank looks to be absolutely covered in oil and the head rest is missing from the back plate in the canopy.

[Troy Smith]

1 hour ago, Jan Pedersen said:

I can only find one picture, where it seems to be a non-standard camo pattern?
Can anyone point me in a direction, where to find more information regarding this scheme?

I'd suggest replacement engine cowling panel below the exhausts.  Note the hard line at the rear of this panel, and on the wing fillet, on the plane behind the Dark Green sweeps down over this. 

HTH 

[Jan Pedersen]

Thanks for your replies.

Troy, a replacement cowling could be the answer, although i´m not able to find other pictures of cowling panels with this pattern... 🤔

[Troy Smith]

20 minutes ago, Jan Pedersen said:

although i´m not able to find other pictures of cowling panels with this pattern... 

it's from a mirror pattern aircraft, note similarity to the starboard pattern 

 

note the  A/B patterns here, and the front aircraft cowl panel

 

It's likely from an old airframe, as the alternating A/B patterns were dropped from production in 1941.

 

HTH

 

[brewerjerry]

Hi

    interesting so cowl was likely from one of the first MkV spitfires

 

off topic but i have somewhere a photo of a UK asr lysander with a TT lower cowl 

 

     cheers

        jerry

[Graham Boak]

I disagree that this is simply from the opposite side/mirror pattern.  They don't match.

 

A couple of points to consider: sometimes Ocean Grey does fade/appear very light.  I recall Paul Lucas getting into a lot of trouble with this is an old magazine article.  The second light patch however seems to match the spill pattern from the petrol tank: is this just a very worn aircraft where the petrol has removed all the paint?  I can't say I've ever seen anything like it elsewhere.

[Jan Pedersen]

Yes, I just can´t get it right in my head too.

Especially the front/lower grey part on the cowling does not match up to anything when I look at A/B patterns.

The plane in the background looks more standard to me.

[Troy Smith]

1 hour ago, Graham Boak said:

I disagree that this is simply from the opposite side/mirror pattern.  They don't match.

there is a hard colour change at the fuel tank/wing fillet, on the engine panel edge.

 

42 minutes ago, Jan Pedersen said:

Especially the front/lower grey part on the cowling does not match up to anything when I look at A/B patterns.

 

if it's that old, it's liley to have been repainted from Dark Earth.  it may not be a precise match, but you have a Dark Green band in the middle of that panel

 

 

the patterns can vary a little

 

 

 

for the pattern

 

 

 

[PatG]

There were not that many Vb's  operating in June 1944 and I think most were either 'spotters' or ASR as I asked this question previously.

 

As for the camouflage I can't see any reason why it would differ from other Spits at the time so presume this is a case of field mods to fit new panels without aligning the panels paint work to the overall scheme, but just a thought.

 

Pat.

[Jan Pedersen]

Again thanks for your replies. 🙂

I totally agree, that it MUST be some kind of replacement panel, and thereby misalignment in the pattern.

Especially due to the sudden stop for the grey at the wingroot.

[Hornet133]

PatG  There were six Sqns of LF.Mk.Vbs operating in two wings as part of 11 Group during the D-Day invasion. These were fighter aircraft and not 'Spotters or ASR machines'.  They were still in service as the LF.Mk.Vb was 30 mph faster than the Spitfire Mk.IX at sea level due to it's specially boosted low altitude engine. Still very useful for low level operations.

[Dave Wilko]

20 hours ago, Phoenix44 said:

The drop tank looks to be absolutely covered in oil

If one remembers,wartime Merlins were expected to have a combat "life" of around 25 hours,so tended to be built somewhat leaky.

[Mark Postlethwaite]

I think what we're seeing here is a new grey panel where an erk was charged with painting the green section and carefully lined up his edges with the upper cowling and then roughly made up the rest from memory!

[DennisTheBear]

2 hours ago, Mark Postlethwaite said:

I think what we're seeing here is a new grey panel where an erk was charged with painting the green section and carefully lined up his edges with the upper cowling and then roughly made up the rest from memory!

That would make a great dio. Spit with cowls of, two erks arguing over the correct I attern to make.😂

[PatG]

Aha,

 

I'd forgotten about the Vb's still with 11 Group so thank you for reminding me, and as you say they were somewhat faster at low level than the IX's.

 

Thank you.

Pat.

[Graham Boak]

Peter Cargill wrote an excellent book about the Spitfire Mk.V, which was especially strong on the later stages of its career.   It (the LF Mk.V) was not only faster than the Mk.IX, but outclimbed almost all other Spitfire variants - at least up to 5000ft.

 

EDIT: The LF MK.V was the pocket rocket, not the earlier ones.  Added to the text.

[FinnAndersen]

this is off topic, but what amazes me is what Supermarine was able to press out of the original Mitchell design ( the mk V and IX) and then when they tried to make it better with the Spiteful, how they failed. Quill states the the original wing was better than they thought and the new laminar wing was worse than they had anticipated.

 

Such are the fortunes of war and engineering, neither is an exact science.

 

/Finn