tomprobert Posted February 14 Share Posted February 14 4 hours ago, dragonlanceHR said: Tom, buying aftermarket decals with Trumpyboss kits is almost a must for the "serious" modeller, as 9 times out of 10 there are problems with shapes, size and/or colours. Now some don't care as is their right, but if I work 20+ hours on something I want it to be right. Some manufacturers give you a chance to do it OOB, some don't. It is a personal choice, and on this matter I vote with my wallet. I don’t disagree with you, but my point still stands. The vast majority of modellers won’t notice/care if things are wrong, and the vast majority will also build it OOB. And therefore it’s very much up to the individual as to whether they wish to invest in aftermarket items. However, even if you are a “serious modeller” you can still build it OOB and end up with a good result regardless of inaccuracies. Yes of course it should be “right” out of the box, and no one would dispute that, but as you say you can invest as much as you like to make the perfect replica. I’m pretty sure HobbyBoss market this to the average Joe and thus mass-market appeal, at a reasonable price, is probably their priority over a model that’s dimensionally perfect. That’s a shame, but if it’s not your cup of tea then wrestle the old Monogram kit into submission - I’ve done that a few times over the years and know where my next investment in a 1/48th Liberator will be heading 🙂 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Masinissa Posted February 14 Share Posted February 14 (edited) 9 hours ago, Bill Mathews said: What was the issue with the monogram nose of the D ? Accuracy or fitment ? I had major problems with the join in front of the cockpit on mine ( ended up putting a triangular wedge in it near the bubble to space it out to match the nose glass as the glass was much wider than the two halves of the fuselage put together ) but I’m not sure if it was me or the kit being the problem … 🤔 also wouldn’t the H just be turret differences ? Maybe the advances in 3D aftermarket might bring a H conversion kit sometime… or some nicer clear parts to replace the kit J turrets 🤞 The nose isn't squared off at the bottom. It tapers to a smaller wedge. The narrower bottom of the nose then carries over into the bottom of the fuselage which should be wider and more "squoval". Tried to find a head on shot of the Monogram kit to no avail, but it's obvious once you see it. So if I have to choose between two kits, that retail for over $100, and weigh their shortcomings . . . Here you can see the "jowls" on the front portion of the B-24D. If the Hobby Boss B-24D gets this right then it's a major improvement over the Monogram/Revell kit. I'll have to go over the differences between the B-24J and H. The front turret is the major visible change. It would be nice to have a 3D printed conversion, or a dedicated kit! Edited February 14 by Masinissa 8 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Mathews Posted February 14 Share Posted February 14 (edited) 3 hours ago, Masinissa said: The nose isn't squared off at the bottom. It tapers to a smaller wedge. The narrower bottom of the nose then carries over into the bottom of the fuselage which should be wider and more "squoval". Tried to find a head on shot of the Monogram kit to no avail, but it's obvious once you see it. So if I have to choose between two kits, that retail for over $100, and weigh their shortcomings . . . Here you can see the "jowls" on the front portion of the B-24D. If the Hobby Boss B-24D gets this right then it's a major improvement over the Monogram/Revell kit. I'll have to go over the differences between the B-24J and H. The front turret is the major visible change. It would be nice to have a 3D printed conversion, or a dedicated kit! WOW !!! 😎 it's a "once you see it - you can't unsee it" type of thing with that nose/fuselage ... the D is a fat,squat,chubby thing isn't it .... "strawberry bitch" - now i have to build a desert 24D sometime - thanks for that ... my to do list gets ever bigger Edited February 14 by Bill Mathews 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tokyo Raider Posted February 20 Share Posted February 20 (edited) Can anyone summarize a list of accuracy issues with the hobby boss B24J? Please stick to the J. We dont have the D yet, so stop complaining about that. I cant get my head around all of the issues of the J... i will start the list: 1) Cowl Lip Shape- complex shape was simplified. Likely aftermarket can correct. 2) Crossection of nose shape is squared off. Cant fix. 3) Canopy Shape. Cant fix. 4) the nose length looked too long in the first built up model, then when they posted pic of the second built up model... it looks more correct. I would be happy with that newer kit. It looks to me like they changed it... check my eyes guys, but the nose looks different to me. 5) ... list more please... Hope you guys can help. I have reread this post several times which talked about 1/32 and 1/72 b24 kits and confused me greatly. I still dont understand all the nose shape complaints because descriptions and not illustrations. I need to get a HB kit before I can measure if I will build it. Hearing now the monogram b24 had shape issues, and i grew up thinking thats what a B24 looks like, so maybe I have to enjoy it and stop worrying. If this HB is too far off, I will pass. I wish it had parts for the tunnel gun instead of ball turret... Edited February 20 by Tokyo Raider Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tokyo Raider Posted February 20 Share Posted February 20 (edited) The issue with kit I found was the 3rd decal scheme, the NMF one appears the real aircraft had a tunnel gun, not ball turret. So windows are in wrong place and it should have tunnel gun on belly, not ball turret. This scheme is one i would build, but cant because its the wrong version liberator! Hasegawa did the same in 1/72. They kitted Cocktail Hour, with ball turret, and it should have had a tunnel gun as the real plane had a tunnel gun and sighting windows by the gun not aft fuselage. Seems HOBBY BOSS could do this B24J early version with tunnel gun, it has lots of great nose art... Edited February 20 by Tokyo Raider Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Exam89 Posted February 21 Share Posted February 21 My box is due to be shipped next week. I'll probably still take it to merge with the monogram Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tokyo Raider Posted February 21 Share Posted February 21 (edited) I hope hobby boss listens to us here... they really should have tooled up the consolidated nose turret as extra and the emerson type so we could use this model for more b24 schemes... most b24s seem to have consolidated nose turret... Edited February 21 by Tokyo Raider 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Masinissa Posted February 22 Share Posted February 22 The nose is too long on the test build, but on the sprue frame (?) it seems okay. This is clearly a case of waiting to see the model instead of looking at (distorted?) photos. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stalal Posted February 22 Share Posted February 22 The molding looks very sharp, notwithstanding the issues mentioned by members. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bozothenutter Posted February 22 Share Posted February 22 8 hours ago, stalal said: The molding looks very sharp, notwithstanding the issues mentioned by members. That's the thing with TrumpyBoss the engineering skill is there, they just keep dropping the ball on accuracy.... 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stephen Posted February 22 Share Posted February 22 15 hours ago, Tokyo Raider said: I hope hobby boss listens to us here... they really should have tooled up the consolidated nose turret as extra and the emerson type so we could use this model for more b24 schemes... most b24s seem to have consolidated nose turret... The issue of Liberator noses and turrets is truly a rabbit hole. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tokyo Raider Posted February 22 Share Posted February 22 (edited) The decals are a letdown. The US insignia is not drawn correctly! I already ordered aftermarket insignia decals. After all these models, how can they not represent the insignia correctly? The fuselage halfs look really nice, i see they missed the sighting windows in most B24Js, but they did scribe the shape on the fuse side so we can cut them out (thanks for that!)... Edited February 22 by Tokyo Raider 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tokyo Raider Posted February 22 Share Posted February 22 (edited) On 2/14/2024 at 10:25 AM, tomprobert said: However, even if you are a “serious modeller” you can still build it OOB and end up with a good result regardless of inaccuracies. Yes of course it should be “right” out of the box, and no one would dispute that, but as you say you can invest as much as you like to make the perfect replica. I look at this HB kit as a canvas, a starting point. I will enjoy trying to get a monogram nose turret to fit, and hopefully aftermarket will do a tunnel gun conversion... i like trying to get my model to match the real aircraft. So i draw enjoyment from the historical accuracy... there are many complex versions of the B24, we cant expect all versions, but hopefully HB doesnt kit the upcoming B24D with a ball turret ( like they did on the 1/32 kit!). I never use kit decals, unless they are eduard or cartograph, so i always plan to get aftrrmarket decals... but the insignias should have been corrected! I just took a peek at the original monogram b24j kit... it appears the nose turret is also the late version turret on that kit... So for me, the only issue with HB b24j kit is decals... I use aftermarket decals anyway... but I guess its not realistic to expect HB to offer all versions of the B24. So pick your scheme carefully for turret and armament and window differences! Edited February 24 by Tokyo Raider 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bozothenutter Posted February 23 Share Posted February 23 On 2/22/2024 at 3:52 PM, Tokyo Raider said: I look at this HB kit as a canvas, a starting point. I will enjoy trying to get a monogram nose turret to fit, and hopefully aftermarket will do a tunnel gun conversion... i like trying to get my model to match the real aircraft. So i draw enjoyment from the historical accuracy... there are many complex versions of the B24, we cant expect all versions, but hopefully HB doesnt kit the upcoming B24D with a ball turret ( like they did on the 1/32 kit!). I never use kit decals, unless they are eduard or cartograph, so i always plan to get aftrrmarket decals... but the insignias should have been corrected! Canvases are usually cheaper than masterworks right? 😉 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tokyo Raider Posted February 23 Share Posted February 23 (edited) This kit just arrived at my local model shop. I will go buy mine tomorrow... My local model shop is very close to the historic Willow Run B24 bomber plant, so I have to get the New HB B24J kit there, also for a great price! Edited February 24 by Tokyo Raider 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tokyo Raider Posted February 24 Share Posted February 24 (edited) I got my kit and so far, fuselage looks great. I dont see any nose shape issues. I just compared the monogram fuselage to the new HB. very close and the upper fuselage shaping forward of canopy is virtually same as monogram. The back frame of canopy is only difference, HB continues diagonal frame into canopy, monogram straightens up aft canopy edge, but this is tiny difference. The wing however has a raised rib sticking up from wing at the end of the de icer boot running the length of the leading edge that needs to be sanded off... Still looking at it... happy so far.... Edited February 24 by Tokyo Raider 2 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
28ZComeback Posted February 24 Share Posted February 24 1 hour ago, Tokyo Raider said: I got my kit and so far, fuselage looks great. I dont see any nose shape issues. I just compared the monogram fuselage to the new HB. very close and the upper fuselage shaping forward of canopy is virtually same as monogram. The back frame of canopy is only difference, HB continues diagonal frame into canopy, monogram straightens up aft canopy edge, but this is tiny difference. The wing however has a raised rib sticking up from wing at the end of the de icer boot running the length of the leading edge that needs to be sanded off... Still looking at it... happy so far.... Question: does the HobbyBoss nose appear to be realistically “boxy” like the real thing? As expressed above, Monogram’s nose “curves up” at an unnatural angle. Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tokyo Raider Posted February 24 Share Posted February 24 I put both fuselages together and they are very close to same shape. I dont understand curving up unnatural. Monogram looks like a b24 shape. Where is this area? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
28ZComeback Posted February 25 Share Posted February 25 5 hours ago, Tokyo Raider said: I put both fuselages together and they are very close to same shape. I dont understand curving up unnatural. Monogram looks like a b24 shape. Where is this area? If you go above to Masinissa’s post, you can see the actual nose vs. the Monogram nose. I am not a B-24 expert but it’s interesting to note the differences., Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tokyo Raider Posted February 25 Share Posted February 25 I have been an aircraft designer and lofted surfaces... i dont know what he means by "squoval". In the SB museum photo, the lower crossection of forward fuselage looks more squarish. The HB parts i have are more like the monogram, with a gradual curve, not squarish. Hope i get what you mean, but nose doesnt point up or anything... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Masinissa Posted February 25 Share Posted February 25 2 hours ago, Tokyo Raider said: I have been an aircraft designer and lofted surfaces... i dont know what he means by "squoval". In the SB museum photo, the lower crossection of forward fuselage looks more squarish. The HB parts i have are more like the monogram, with a gradual curve, not squarish. Hope i get what you mean, but nose doesnt point up or anything... Squoval is a term coined by the performance bicycle maker Cervelo. They found they could lay up the carbon fiber in a square/round orientation on their R3 bike's down tube that gave maximum stiffness and flexibility on a very lightweight frame. You can't compare the B-24D nose to the B-24J nose. The J nose was redesigned to fit the turret and the lower part of the forward nose is narrower than on the B-24D. In 1976 Monogram released their B-24J and then in 1983 they released the B-24D. They seem to have used their B-24J nose ans a guide for the design of their B-24D . . . DON"T ASK! You can see some photos of the 1/32 Hobby Boss B-24D here. It does look like the D nose is "correctish" . . . https://intscalemodeller.com/viewtopic.php?t=29284 1 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomprobert Posted February 25 Share Posted February 25 On 2/22/2024 at 2:52 PM, Tokyo Raider said: …but hopefully HB doesn't kit the upcoming B24D with a ball turret ( like they did on the 1/32 kit!). …but B-24Ds were fitted with the ball turret! Early production B-24Ds were delivered with the tunnel gun arrangement, but this soon proved to be more or less useless in combat. Therefore, later D models were fitted with the ball turret, so again it’ll depend on which aircraft you’re hoping to replicate and where it fell in the D model production run. Also of consideration with the D is the cheek gun on the left side of the nose - early Ds didn’t have this and it was added later as more forward defence was needed. Rear turrets also had subtle differences between early and late. Again, check references carefully… And there’s more - early Ds had narrow chord props; later ones used the wider paddle blades. For any kit manufacturer to cover all bases is simply not possible with the B-24! Tom 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tokyo Raider Posted February 25 Share Posted February 25 (edited) Hi tom.. yes hoping they give us some variety of schemes we can do and offer various armaments in the kit... Vast majority of famous B24 aircraft didnt have ball turrets. Lots of B24Js also had them removed at depot level on delivery because of weight (cocktail hour etc...). Monogram provided a faired over panel in 1983 for lack of ball turret in the b24D kit. Edited February 25 by Tokyo Raider 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Masinissa Posted February 26 Share Posted February 26 (edited) 18 hours ago, Tokyo Raider said: Hi tom.. yes hoping they give us some variety of schemes we can do and offer various armaments in the kit... Vast majority of famous B24 aircraft didnt have ball turrets. Lots of B24Js also had them removed at depot level on delivery because of weight (cocktail hour etc...). Monogram provided a faired over panel in 1983 for lack of ball turret in the b24D kit. So you're saying that the first B-24s weren't masculine B-24s???? Edited February 26 by Masinissa Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Mathews Posted February 26 Share Posted February 26 (edited) On 25/02/2024 at 18:49, Masinissa said: DON"T ASK! oh I'm going to ask ..... what in the hell is this monstrosity ??? actually i kinda like it ... but i'm weird ... Edited February 27 by Bill Mathews Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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