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Project #2 : Round Table Class Minesweeper HMS Sir Lancelot (1/96th scratchbuild)


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After completing my scratch SS Servia a few months ago I thought I’d happily return to an aviation subject for my next project but unfortunately the nautical bug seems to have bitten quite hard so it looks like it will be another ship project after all !

 

Initially I was looking at building an early RN destroyer in 1/72 (HMS Jason caught my eye as did the Acorn and early tribal classes). Being based in SE London the obvious starting point was a trip to the Greenwich archives which I did in May. I could blather on about the visit for ages, suffice to say that unrolling sets of original plans from the late 19th century is a superb experience.

 

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Anyway a change in personal circumstances means that for the next year or so I will be based in Exmoor with a reduced workspace so something of that size wasn’t going to be feasible. I then stumbled across the Seaforth title on RN Trawlers and Drifters and finally decided on a Round Table class minesweeper (its on the cover).

 

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The book includes many sets of useful plans but they are quite small, Cornwall Models can supply sets of the MMI plans at 1/96th so that settled it. The finished model will be just over 1foot in length so a much better fit in my temporary mini workshop. 

 

The plan was to use primarily wood and metal in this project instead of plastic but again because of space and limited tools I opted for plastic.

 

Step #1 was to cut out the hull cross sections and profile from 1.5mm plastic sheet. I don’t own a power fret saw so I opted to create each cross section as 2 halves clamping each pair together so that they can be sanded to be identical in shape. For the prow I made a brass insert to ensure a crisp line and filleted this into the profile.

 

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The shear lines in the plans do not extend aft of the propeller so all I had to go on for the shape of the stern section was a plan view and profile. I built the shape up with various addition cross sections that were sanded back until I had a shape that I was happy with. The sections between these were filled with balsa to provide a solid base for the plastic skin.

 

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Once this was done I made a simple jig to hold the spine straight whilst the planking is done. My approach on this is to use quite thin plastic sheet (0.5mm) and to then build up the hull from the inside with more plastic and resin. The smoothing process means that the original planking is almost completely sanded away in places.

 

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I used some auto filler to get a nice smooth finish and then set about the transom which extends all the way around the sides up to the fore deck. This is quite a fiddly job as it splays out at the stern rather than being vertical. I started by using printer paper taped in place to get a rough shape and then gradually refined this eventually moving to card and ultimately plastic sheet. The shape is too complex to do in a single piece so I made the stern section and then butt jointed the side sections to this.

 

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More auto filler, more sanding and this is where it stands currently.

 

The next step will be the hull plating, the plans do not include a shell expansion but there is a set in the book for another class and I’ll use these to create something that is hopefully reasonably credible.

 

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  • theskits62 changed the title to Project #2 : Round Table Class Minesweeper HMS Sir Lancelot (1/96th scratchbuild)

Hi , looks very interesting project I will follow it. I have one question: I am interested mostly II WW. This book is divided two part? II WW maters are contained only in 2-nd part?

Thanks in advance and best regards, 

Michal

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33 minutes ago, socjo1 said:

Hi , looks very interesting project I will follow it. I have one question: I am interested mostly II WW. This book is divided two part? II WW maters are contained only in 2-nd part?

Thanks in advance and best regards, 

Michal

The book is a single volume covering both world wars, the plans are at the back of the book and cover a selection of vessels from WW1 and WW2.

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27 minutes ago, theskits62 said:

The book is a single volume covering both world wars, the plans are at the back of the book and cover a selection of vessels from WW1 and WW2.

Oh, great, thanks! I waited so long for 2nd volume wich suddenly... doesn't exist  🤣. Time for buuuuuying! 🙂

 

Your ship will be grey or white WA scheme?

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33 minutes ago, socjo1 said:

Oh, great, thanks! I waited so long for 2nd volume wich suddenly... doesn't exist  🤣. Time for buuuuuying! 🙂

 

Your ship will be grey or white WA scheme?

From what I've read these were all based in home waters so it will be Home Fleet grey i think.

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53 minutes ago, theskits62 said:

From what I've read these were all based in home waters so it will be Home Fleet grey i think.

There is photo of white and blue (?) Sir Kay on IWM site 

 

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But I think you are right, most of them was Gray. Or maybe someone else know something more about white Roundtables?

 

 

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20 hours ago, theskits62 said:

but unfortunately the nautical bug seems to have bitten quite hard

Gidday, it's a chronic condition for which there's no cure. I've suffered from it for over 50 years, quite badly these last two decades. 🙂

 

20 hours ago, theskits62 said:

For the prow I made a brass insert to ensure a crisp line and filleted this into the profile.

I build/convert ship kits in 1/600 scale, mainly Airfix to date but wish to diversify hence scratch building hulls is something I'll have to attempt soon. So I'm following your technique closely and your model is looking very good. The brass insert at the bow/prow/stem, is it glued in or simply pushed in and held by friction? And if glued, what glue would bond styrene to brass? And styrene to balsa? Sorry if you've already answered these questions and I missed the answers.

     Many thanks. Regards, Jeff.

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49 minutes ago, ArnoldAmbrose said:

Gidday, it's a chronic condition for which there's no cure. I've suffered from it for over 50 years, quite badly these last two decades. 🙂

 

I build/convert ship kits in 1/600 scale, mainly Airfix to date but wish to diversify hence scratch building hulls is something I'll have to attempt soon. So I'm following your technique closely and your model is looking very good. The brass insert at the bow/prow/stem, is it glued in or simply pushed in and held by friction? And if glued, what glue would bond styrene to brass? And styrene to balsa? Sorry if you've already answered these questions and I missed the answers.

     Many thanks. Regards, Jeff.

That doesn't bode well for my attic full of airplane kits (10 x 84 litre boxes at last count !!!)

 

I actually sandwiched the brass between 2 thinner pieces of plastic card and then filleted this onto the spine in one of the gaps between the cross sections.  As for glue i use Loctite 60 second all purpose which i find a really good all rounder.

 

IMG_0969

 

Edited by theskits62
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Gidday, thanks for that. I've got a few ideas for hulls bouncing around in my head but none tried yet. 

     As for your aircraft kits, don't worry. While the ship bug is incurable the affects can fade from time to time, allowing other bugs (aircraft, AFV etc) a chance to clobber the poor victims (us!). Fortunately for me I've never been infected by the AFV or SciFi bug but I very occasionally I have a mild bout of aircraft bug. I hope this puts your mind at ease. 😁

     Regards, Jeff.

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As frequent guest on this forum I came across your thread and it made me decide to sign up. I noticed you use the set of Lambert drawings. So did I when I started a scratch build of this vessel in scale 1:72, some years ago. The drawings are very detailed but still left me with a lot of questions and my project came to a stop and started gathering dust. But I kept on digging and finally found what I was looking for. May I suggest a visit to www.aberdeenships.com, where I found many answers. Search for “round table class” and you will find 3 extremely detailed drawings that show you EverythingYouAlwaysWantedToKnowAboutRoundTableClassTrawlers. Apparently these were the source for the Lambert plans. The Lambert plans contain sections, not present in the source documents. I think they must have been reconstructed and show some details that are somewhat debatable. The widely known Mountfleet model, scale 1:48, appears to be based upon the Lambert plans but shows even more debatable details. It is a very nice model but not very accurate. I hope you find my input of use. In the meanwhile I will struggle on with my own project; I’m a very slow builder and scratching all those tiny details does not speed up things (to say the least). Best regards, Louis.

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On 8/13/2022 at 11:05 AM, Louis E said:

As frequent guest on this forum I came across your thread and it made me decide to sign up. I noticed you use the set of Lambert drawings. So did I when I started a scratch build of this vessel in scale 1:72, some years ago. The drawings are very detailed but still left me with a lot of questions and my project came to a stop and started gathering dust. But I kept on digging and finally found what I was looking for. May I suggest a visit to www.aberdeenships.com, where I found many answers. Search for “round table class” and you will find 3 extremely detailed drawings that show you EverythingYouAlwaysWantedToKnowAboutRoundTableClassTrawlers. Apparently these were the source for the Lambert plans. The Lambert plans contain sections, not present in the source documents. I think they must have been reconstructed and show some details that are somewhat debatable. The widely known Mountfleet model, scale 1:48, appears to be based upon the Lambert plans but shows even more debatable details. It is a very nice model but not very accurate. I hope you find my input of use. In the meanwhile I will struggle on with my own project; I’m a very slow builder and scratching all those tiny details does not speed up things (to say the least). Best regards, Louis.

Thankyou so much for the information. I've been looking at the plans and comparing them to photos of both the real thing and the mountfleet kit and like you in many cases this creates more questions than it answers. The problem i keep coming back to is that the plans provide a top-down and side on view but for many of the details this doesn't really help you work out what the actual shape is (this situation is aggravated by my general lack of nautical knowledge). I'm even struggling to work out things like whether the funnel has a circular or more ovoid cross section. It sounds as if you are much further ahead with your build than I am but it would be useful to compare notes going forward. Many thanks again for taking the time to comment on this thread and good luck with your build !!

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On 8/10/2022 at 1:06 AM, PF Naughton said:

Wow, your build is looking great.  I always wanted to try something like this, but am afraid that it might be too much for my level of abilities.  Ca n't wait to see how your build turns out.

Pat

Thanks !! I felt exactly the same as you when i started my previous (first ever) scratch project. I'd say if its something you want to do give it a try you might be surprised - slow and steady wins the day. The sense of satisfaction is huge when that shape starts coming together.

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Watching with interest. Currently in the final stages of building the old Caldercraft ‘Milford Star’ kit in 1/48 scale as ‘Star of Orkney’, the pre-war trawler from which the Round Table class was derived. They are all lovely little ships!

 

Don’t worry too much about yours not resembling the Mountfleet kit. They use the post-war ‘Boston Typhoon’ hull for the kit, complete with round, plated stem and more rake than a genuine Round Table.

 

 Cheers

 

Steve

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On 19/08/2022 at 15:11, Stephen Allen said:

Watching with interest. Currently in the final stages of building the old Caldercraft ‘Milford Star’ kit in 1/48 scale as ‘Star of Orkney’, the pre-war trawler from which the Round Table class was derived. They are all lovely little ships!

 

Don’t worry too much about yours not resembling the Mountfleet kit. They use the post-war ‘Boston Typhoon’ hull for the kit, complete with round, plated stem and more rake than a genuine Round Table.

 

 Cheers

 

Steve

Your final remark strikes me as a flash of lightning! Ignorant as I am, I never realised you can design a complete fleet of models on a limited number of hulls! Nonetheless building such a model can be a source of great joy and satisfaction. But not for the first time this shows that you cannot rely on any model as a source for your build when you are striving for historic accuracy (apart from builders models).

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On 19/08/2022 at 13:16, theskits62 said:

Thankyou so much for the information. I've been looking at the plans and comparing them to photos of both the real thing and the mountfleet kit and like you in many cases this creates more questions than it answers. The problem i keep coming back to is that the plans provide a top-down and side on view but for many of the details this doesn't really help you work out what the actual shape is (this situation is aggravated by my general lack of nautical knowledge). I'm even struggling to work out things like whether the funnel has a circular or more ovoid cross section. It sounds as if you are much further ahead with your build than I am but it would be useful to compare notes going forward. Many thanks again for taking the time to comment on this thread and good luck with your build !!

I am certainly ahead of you regarding gathering and interpreting information. And I am more than willing to share my findings. Up to now you seem te be doing fine. Your build resembles mine a lot: I used cardboard frames with inserts of balsa (easy sanding because they are of about the same density). I too made an insert for stem and keel, using 1 mm. birch plywood. And I too made the bullwarks out of 0,5 mm. styrene sheet. Highly unconventionally I finished the hull with a great number of coatings of thin cyanoacrylate (Loctite 420). (This belongs in the category "do not try this at home"....). I wanted to incorporate shell plating just like you, but no matter how hard I studied my references, I could only see horizontal laps of plating. Not one picture (even in WA scheme, brighty lit) shows the vertical laps. So I decided to leave the verticals out; you shouldn't make what you don't see. Maybe the verticals were buttstrapped (connected by means of a steel strip on the back of the plating).

The only thing I noticed in your build is that you closed up the forecastle. There is actually an open passage, leading to 2 toilets, the lamp room and paint room (port side) and captains bathroom (accessible from the aft bulkhead) and crews washplace on the starboard side. This passage is slightly blocked by a hatch, leading to the minesweeping store belowdecks and the vertical chainpipe, leading to the chainlocker. The entrance to this passage again is slighty blocked by the support of the 3" gunplatform, which is quite different from the Moutfleet version. Because of this layout, you will hardly see anything of the interior of the forecastle.

I haven't figured out how to post pictures here yet. Apart from that, the exchange of information might go beyond the intentions of this forum, being to detailed and boring for third parties. But I don't know if forum rules allow the exchange of mail adresses. If so, I could try to answer any question you have by mail.

Best regards, Louis

 

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1 hour ago, Louis E said:

I am certainly ahead of you regarding gathering and interpreting information. And I am more than willing to share my findings. Up to now you seem te be doing fine. Your build resembles mine a lot: I used cardboard frames with inserts of balsa (easy sanding because they are of about the same density). I too made an insert for stem and keel, using 1 mm. birch plywood. And I too made the bullwarks out of 0,5 mm. styrene sheet. Highly unconventionally I finished the hull with a great number of coatings of thin cyanoacrylate (Loctite 420). (This belongs in the category "do not try this at home"....). I wanted to incorporate shell plating just like you, but no matter how hard I studied my references, I could only see horizontal laps of plating. Not one picture (even in WA scheme, brighty lit) shows the vertical laps. So I decided to leave the verticals out; you shouldn't make what you don't see. Maybe the verticals were buttstrapped (connected by means of a steel strip on the back of the plating).

The only thing I noticed in your build is that you closed up the forecastle. There is actually an open passage, leading to 2 toilets, the lamp room and paint room (port side) and captains bathroom (accessible from the aft bulkhead) and crews washplace on the starboard side. This passage is slightly blocked by a hatch, leading to the minesweeping store belowdecks and the vertical chainpipe, leading to the chainlocker. The entrance to this passage again is slighty blocked by the support of the 3" gunplatform, which is quite different from the Moutfleet version. Because of this layout, you will hardly see anything of the interior of the forecastle.

I haven't figured out how to post pictures here yet. Apart from that, the exchange of information might go beyond the intentions of this forum, being to detailed and boring for third parties. But I don't know if forum rules allow the exchange of mail adresses. If so, I could try to answer any question you have by mail.

Best regards, Louis

 

I'm not 100% sure but i would imagine that sharing info / pictures etc on the subject of round table minesweepers wouldn't breach any forum rules. Hopefully if it does someone will let us know !! I'd be very interested to see any pictures that you've managed to uncover on the forecastle. Mine is blocked off at the moment as you say but what you see is actually just the back of one of the cross sections, i was planning on adding a fascia to this down the line so it shouldn't be too difficult to open this up. All the best Brett

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5 hours ago, Bertie McBoatface said:

It's interesting to read your collaboration as it happens even though the subject matter isn't 'my thing'. 🙂

Never say never, all it takes is a one ship that catches your eye and you might find yourself trading sails for props !

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On 8/22/2022 at 4:05 AM, theskits62 said:

Never say never, all it takes is a one ship that catches your eye and you might find yourself trading sails for props !

Gidday, don't try to convert @Bertie McBoatface too soon, he's got Beagle to finish and Bellerophon to do. THEN we'll put the screws on him (no pun intended). 😁

       Regards, Jeff.

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2 hours ago, ArnoldAmbrose said:

Gidday, don't try to convert @Bertie McBoatface too soon, he's got Beagle to finish and Bellerophon to do. THEN we'll put the screws on him (no pun intended). 😁

       Regards, Jeff.

 

Come for me in 2026. 😀

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  • 2 weeks later...

A bit more progress. I was going to do the hull plating next but "Louis E" helpfully pointed out that there is in fact an off centre opening under the forecastle whereas mine was blocked off.  Most of the detail in there will be hidden by the forward gun platform but it will add some interest so out came the saw and power tools.

 

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I then started thinking about the hull plating, as i said before the plans do not include a shell expansion so i had a choice of either ignoring the plating or adding something that will at least look plausible. I really wanted to try plating so went for the latter option using alternate strips of 0.25mm and 0.1mm plasticard (this latter is called pla-paper and is made by Tamiya). Before i could start the plating though i needed to mark out the strips which is no easy matter since the lines do not run parallel to the keel. In the end i measured and marked key points for each line then "joined the dots". I then worked plate by plate making pairs of each plate and putting these in position on each side to ensure symmetry (or at least minimize asymmetry).

 

The next job was the bilge keels that are also tricky because of the curved surface they have to sit on. In the end i used a profiling tool to give me the correct shape.

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Any that is done and some other external hull detailing has been added, this is the current state of play. 

 

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I need to do a few bits of tidying on the plating but i am keen to get some paint onto it to see if it looks ok or too pronounced. Before i can do that however i need to get the forecastle on which means detailing and painting the cut away section beneath it which means deciding on a deck colour.

 

Corticene seems to have been used widely for non slip decking from WW1 onwards but at some point semtex (no relation to the explosive) seems to have come in. Whereas the former consisted of sheets of non slip matting held in place by brass strips (a mid brown in colour), the latter was painted or trowelled on the decks and could be green, blue, grey and possibly other colours. I have no idea what is appropriate here and am inclined to go for a green semtex but i'd be interested to hear if anyone has any views on this.....

 

 

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