modelldoc Posted March 17, 2019 Share Posted March 17, 2019 (edited) I go the same way. Basic was the Special Hobby - Revell Hudson, and hereis my Lockheed 14 : https://www.flickr.com/photos/21603181@N08/29172095667/in/dateposted/ modelldoc Edited March 17, 2019 by modelldoc 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rob Lyttle Posted March 17, 2019 Author Share Posted March 17, 2019 (edited) @modelldoc nice, thanks. Got a picture of the Tailplanes? Just straight across? What I mean is the MPM piece has a slightly angled trailing edge... Opinions, @janneman36?? Edited March 17, 2019 by rob Lyttle Pic and flag Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
modelldoc Posted March 17, 2019 Share Posted March 17, 2019 I used the SP / Revell kit, only the fuselage parts are "new" for this kit. Both, nose and upper part of the fuselage are in the kit. The tail is the original part. modelldoc 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rob Lyttle Posted March 17, 2019 Author Share Posted March 17, 2019 Right! That's the same piece that I'm using for reference here, beside the old Airfix tail in the picture. I'm going to scratch one to that pattern. 👍 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
janneman36 Posted March 17, 2019 Share Posted March 17, 2019 @rob Lyttle Maybe this helps to clarify it a bit as i do think the training should be straight.. https://www.southernskymodels.com.au/LockheedHudsonTail-3260.html https://www.airliners.net/photo/KLM-Royal-Dutch-Airlines/Lockheed-14-WF62-Super-Electra/2604736/L https://static.thisdayinaviation.com/wp-content/uploads/tdia//2017/07/Hughes_Lockheed_14H_5483065329.jpg https://www.aviationmegastore.com/lockheed-14-super-electra-british-airways-cpl14ba-classic-plane-cpl14ba-airliner-modelling-kits/product/?action=prodinfo&art=140670 cheers, Jan 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rob Lyttle Posted March 17, 2019 Author Share Posted March 17, 2019 (edited) The KLM picture on Airliners.net is a good one. There's a visual "thing" going on, and the t. e. doesn't line up with a ruler as dead straight. But the Tailplanes taper towards the tips and the elevator must get thinner too. So, is that creating an illusion? On the other hand, if the slope of the aerofoil section remains constant across the whole elevator end to end, but it is thicker in the centre, then THAT would automatically create a slight V angle along the t. e. of the elevator. Which means the MPM /Revell piece in the picture above would be correct. I'm surrounded by styrene shavings as I write.... Edited March 18, 2019 by rob Lyttle Clarity Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admiral Puff Posted March 18, 2019 Share Posted March 18, 2019 I've seen all the surviving RAAF ones, which ended up with Adastra (which is where I saw them, way back when at Mascot). The elevator/horizontal stabiliser line was straight on all of them. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lazy8 Posted March 18, 2019 Share Posted March 18, 2019 Think it through. Either the elevator is split with a variable gap in the middle when it is deflected (and some potentially interesting aerodynamics), or it has to have a straight hinge - otherwise it can't move. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rob Lyttle Posted March 18, 2019 Author Share Posted March 18, 2019 50 minutes ago, Admiral Puff said: The elevator/horizontal stabiliser line was straight on all of them. 12 minutes ago, Lazy8 said: or it has to have a straight hinge - otherwise it can't move. Check and check, guys. The hinge line has to be straight, and I've straightened the odd Airfix one... But the trailing edge of the elevator... Does the slightly thicker section in the middle (the planes tapering towards the tips)... Does that produce a longer projection rearward to the trailing edge, given that the surfaces come together at a constant angle? @Admiral Puff are you saying the t. e. line is dead straight, or the hinge line? Here's what I've done, and it pretty much tallies with the MPM piece in the background. But it's shaveable 👍 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admiral Puff Posted March 18, 2019 Share Posted March 18, 2019 Yes, there is a slight taper on the trailing edge - the centre chord is slightly larger than the outboard. There's not much in it - the deviation from square to the fore and aft line is only a degree or so - but it's there. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rob Lyttle Posted March 19, 2019 Author Share Posted March 19, 2019 Good one @Admiral Puff. Thanks for that! So what I've done is probably a bit exaggerated, but I'm on the right track? Comparing with the MPM moulding, their shape is probably about spot on and mine needs easing a fraction. When I started into the little Airfix kit, for a quickie, I didn't even know there was a question, never mind what the answer is!! Thanks for the insight Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rob Lyttle Posted March 20, 2019 Author Share Posted March 20, 2019 For the sake of completeness, here's what I've made, foiled and fitted. A little bit of finishing required later perhaps, but it's something to work with. And thanks for all the input! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JWM Posted March 23, 2019 Share Posted March 23, 2019 I hope intersting photo for this subject: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/9f/Lockheed_Super_Electra_CF-TCE.jpg Cheers J-W 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Space Ranger Posted March 23, 2019 Share Posted March 23, 2019 (edited) 7 hours ago, JWM said: I hope intersting photo for this subject: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/9f/Lockheed_Super_Electra_CF-TCE.jpg Cheers J-W That is the first photo I have seen which clearly shows how part of the aft fuselage fairing is attached to the elevator! Thanks for posting. Edited March 23, 2019 by Space Ranger 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
busnproplinerfan Posted March 23, 2019 Share Posted March 23, 2019 4 minutes ago, Space Ranger said: That is the first photo I have seen which clearly shows how part of the aft fuselage fairing is attached to the elevator! Thanks for posting. I totally missed that, I don't look to good. Also the trim tabs work opposite of the elevator. I guess they "fly" the elevator. Always wondered how TCA personnel kept their white coveralls clean. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Space Ranger Posted March 23, 2019 Share Posted March 23, 2019 1 hour ago, busnproplinerfan said: Also the trim tabs work opposite of the elevator. I guess they "fly" the elevator. That's exactly right. Per Wikipedia: "When a servo tab is employed, it is moved into the slipstream opposite to the control surface's desired deflection. For example, in order to trim an elevator to hold the nose down, the elevator's trim tab will actually rise up into the slipstream. The increased pressure on top of the trim tab surface caused by raising it will then deflect the entire elevator slab down slightly, causing the tail to rise and the aircraft's nose to move down." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
busnproplinerfan Posted March 23, 2019 Share Posted March 23, 2019 29 minutes ago, Space Ranger said: That's exactly right. Per Wikipedia: "When a servo tab is employed, it is moved into the slipstream opposite to the control surface's desired deflection. For example, in order to trim an elevator to hold the nose down, the elevator's trim tab will actually rise up into the slipstream. The increased pressure on top of the trim tab surface caused by raising it will then deflect the entire elevator slab down slightly, causing the tail to rise and the aircraft's nose to move down." Thanks, I think it makes he load on the controls lighter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rob Lyttle Posted March 23, 2019 Author Share Posted March 23, 2019 (edited) I'd already come across this type of design when building a Beech 18, (Expeditor), Beech used a similar thing where the rudders intersect Tailplane, in addition to the elevator fairing. Clever and stylish. Who was first, Lockheed or Beech? Edited March 23, 2019 by rob Lyttle Missing text Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
busnproplinerfan Posted March 23, 2019 Share Posted March 23, 2019 I have a set of vertical fin angle flanges from a Beech 18 if anyone wants. Speaking of Beech 18s. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rob Lyttle Posted March 23, 2019 Author Share Posted March 23, 2019 Link to pic of the Beech elevator /fuselage fairing. Very much like the Lockheed tail I can't remember the source, so I'll just put the link https://www.flickr.com/photos/147147244@N08/40713715112/in/album-72157693633406044/ ... I have taken the trim tabs off and repositioned them accordingly! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rob Lyttle Posted April 2, 2019 Author Share Posted April 2, 2019 On 23/03/2019 at 19:08, Space Ranger said: That is the first photo I have seen which clearly shows how part of the aft fuselage fairing is attached to the elevator! Thanks for posting. These are tucked away in the BM walkaround section, under "Hudson". The intro acknowledges that the airframe is an Adastra civilian L14 dressed up as a Hudson - hence the correct elevator for this issue. Some great information refs on the fowler flaps too, which are a bit of a feature on these planes. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Space Ranger Posted April 2, 2019 Share Posted April 2, 2019 Thanks for those. I'm always forgetting to check the walkarounds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rob Lyttle Posted April 2, 2019 Author Share Posted April 2, 2019 36 minutes ago, Space Ranger said: walkarounds. I know! I think the section needs to be pushed more to the front of the forum. It's very "tucked away" and easily overlooked. There's a load of great stuff on there, and it's OK to paste anything in there onto your build thread or whatever. P 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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