eagledocf15 Posted May 14, 2018 Share Posted May 14, 2018 What is the best Kfir in 48th and 72nd? What are the problems with the ESCI or Italeri kits? Is there a 32nd kit coming out and what about The conversions? Thank you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Modelraynz Posted May 14, 2018 Share Posted May 14, 2018 Amk.....and amk! 😈 Hehe, actually not sure for 48th, but hands down for their 72nd, My 2c 1/72nd: Italeri feels slightly overscale in parts , soft panel detail, thats not consistant across parts ( right side vs left), lack of detail not just etched but in general shapes, esp in yhe nose. Youl need to realign verticle tail, nose strakes not symetric and probably a dozen other things ive omitted. Hasegawa; Seems to be better in scale (next to a high planes mirage) sharper details, and my personal preference before amk Amk: Wow. Not perfect but a massive leap ahead, careful checking of mating surfaces will br and odd raised dogteeth were what i initially noticed. Given one can cross kit parts from a high planes mirage pretty much oob , they both seem to be in scale Hth ☺ 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jure Miljevic Posted May 14, 2018 Share Posted May 14, 2018 Hello I do not know about Italeri kit, but my short critique of ESCI Mirage III kits here also applies for their 1/48 Kfir, plus funny looking nose, inaccurate intake at the vertical tail base and similar. Cheers Jure Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Giorgio N Posted May 14, 2018 Share Posted May 14, 2018 The Esci kit is even worse than their Mirage III kits, at least the Mirages were accurate enough. The Kfir was one of the very first Esci aircraft kits and accuracy is not good. Both AMK and Kinetic have made 1/48 Kfirs, I dont' have them but all reviews seem to be very positive, not sure which one is best though. In any case way better than the Esci thing.. In 1/32 there is (or was) an Isracast conversion for the Revell Mirage III, I don't know if this could be made to fit the more recent Italeri offering. I've seen some scratchbuilt conversions, I would have considered one back in the days but when I started to know more about the differences between the Mirage and the Kfir I would just use a proper conversion or wait for a kit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eagledocf15 Posted May 14, 2018 Author Share Posted May 14, 2018 Thank you Giorgio, Jure, and Modelraynz! - Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
exdraken Posted May 18, 2018 Share Posted May 18, 2018 Go Amk, the upgraded kit for 48th! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jacarre Posted May 31, 2018 Share Posted May 31, 2018 In 1/72 AMK and Hasegawa are - in shape and dimensions - the best Kfirs IMHO. There are some slighty error in shape in the AMK one: Wing profile are a little too shallow in roots and the canopy profile is not the best. I have some doubts of the heigth of the tail fin, too: its smaller than the others (i dont have dimensions). Hasegawa kit have a very good shape and dimensions, but the panel lines are wrong and raised and the detail is not of the level of the AMK kit. The wing chord, span and fuselage dimensions are very good. I have some doubts about the width of the rear fuselage (afterburner area), it's sightly greater than AMK (could be in the rear plane due to the J-79 engine, more short and width. Italeri Kfir and F-21 are the worst of the bunch. Wing chord too short, main landing gear idem, poor main wheels, canopy too "buried" in the fuselage, windscreen too long and shallow (due to the canopy height). Here with my friends of IPMS Chile we measured a disassembled Cheetah E in National Aeronautic Museum, and, despite the differences with the american engined Mirage derivatives, there are great similarities. We determined with this data that the best - in shape and dimensions - 1/72 Atar engined Mirages are the High Planes and PJ ones. Regards., Javier 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Bryon Posted June 2, 2018 Share Posted June 2, 2018 If you go for the AMK in 1/48 you need to get the updated one with this boxart: https://www.scalemates.com/kits/1104745-amk-88001-a-israel-iai-kfir-c2-c7 They changed the fuselage from the original boxing to make it more accurate and updated the ordnance. Jon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uncle Uncool Posted June 4, 2018 Share Posted June 4, 2018 Well, I've recently built the 1/48 Kinetic F-21 and Wingman Models Kfir C2, and I'm just puzzled no-one here woulda even mentioned either of them... They're far better than the AMK kit, even the last one with the revised Coke Bottle Area shape. The size of the cockpit, bang seat and windshield on the AMK is just laughably off. The Esci Kfir is a dog; no doubt about it, but the good thing is that you can get one for less than 5 quid, get a Kfir resin nose, J79 exhaust and perhaps a resin cockpit and build a decent kit of the Kfir. It's a nice kit to scratchbuilding the fin intake for the J79. Mind ye; if you get the Wingman Models kit, you're gonna be left with a plethora of resin/plastic parts to build yet another decent one out of the Esci kit. Me doesn't know about the 1/72nd examples, sorry. Cheers, Unc2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Helmsman Posted June 5, 2018 Share Posted June 5, 2018 Wingman kits are Kinetic plastic with some resin extras and custom decals. Quality wise AMK Kfir is way better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
modelman182 Posted June 18, 2018 Share Posted June 18, 2018 Somewhat surprised that no-one has mentioned the upcoming release of a 1/32nd Kfir C2/C7 from Kinetic. I don't have a release date for it yet (it's listed in their 2018 Catalogue), but I've already got my pre-order in with my local hobby shop. If it's up to their usual standard, it should be quite nice 🙂 Kev Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uncle Uncool Posted June 19, 2018 Share Posted June 19, 2018 On 6/5/2018 at 1:28 PM, Helmsman said: Wingman kits are Kinetic plastic with some resin extras and custom decals. Quality wise AMK Kfir is way better. With a LOT of resin extras and custom decals, I'd say. I guess it's in the eye of the beholder What's about the quality on the AMK Kfir that's better with regard to the Wingman Models/Kinetic Kfir kits? Wingman Models/Kinetic kits offer the F-21, C1, C2, C7, C10 and C12 options, while AMK has only offered the C1/C2 option? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Helmsman Posted June 25, 2018 Share Posted June 25, 2018 Surface quality of AMK is better. Can't comment on fit as I haven't built Kinetic kit yet, just AMK. AMK fit is excellent. Kinetic drop tanks are incorrect. Original AMK Kfir had incorrect fuselage but it was corrected in second release. All this is about plastic only. Also, since we're talking Israeli Kfirs, it rules out F-21, C10 and C12. It would be interesting to try fitting Wingman resin parts into AMK kit. Of course, Wingman claims the parts are not compatible, but I think it is worth trying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
exdraken Posted June 29, 2018 Share Posted June 29, 2018 (edited) On 6/25/2018 at 4:03 PM, Helmsman said: It would be interesting to try fitting Wingman resin parts into AMK kit. Of course, Wingman claims the parts are not compatible, but I think it is worth trying. The single seater conversion works well on AMK kits... The 2- seaters would involve a lot of cutting! By the way , there are IAI C10s around, incl Israeli markings! http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-3vjF5rrfVP8/ViNgpFpU-TI/AAAAAAAAACg/LT9sPhrFaVk/s1600/IAI%2BKifr.jpg Edited June 29, 2018 by exdraken Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uncle Uncool Posted July 2, 2018 Share Posted July 2, 2018 On 6/25/2018 at 11:03 AM, Helmsman said: Can't comment on fit as I haven't built Kinetic kit yet, just AMK. Ahá...! On 6/25/2018 at 11:03 AM, Helmsman said: Also, since we're talking Israeli Kfirs, it rules out F-21, C10 and C12. Say whut...? The F-21 is the US Navy designation for the Israeli Kfir C-1. The C-10 and C-12 are also Kfirs. On 6/29/2018 at 1:50 AM, exdraken said: The single seater conversion works well on AMK kits... Last time I checked fitting my Wingman Models resin surplus onto the AMK Kfir kit, the 1/48 pilot told me he could easily stand up inside the cockpit and, with the canopy closed, dance the Tango around in the room left by both the seat and IP... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
exdraken Posted July 2, 2018 Share Posted July 2, 2018 18 minutes ago, Uncle Uncool said: Last time I checked fitting my Wingman Models resin surplus onto the AMK Kfir kit, the 1/48 pilot told me he could easily stand up inside the cockpit and, with the canopy closed, dance the Tango around in the room left by both the seat and IP... No need to do that! You.only change the nose, windscreen and IP..... Your pilot probably is not a grown up yet... coming from a Heller Mirage IV maybe? 😛 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uncle Uncool Posted July 3, 2018 Share Posted July 3, 2018 23 hours ago, exdraken said: No need to do that! You.only change the nose, windscreen and IP..... Your pilot probably is not a grown up yet... coming from a Heller Mirage IV maybe? 😛 Smart fella! Well, no; my pilot did compare both the Kinetic and AMK seats, cockpit tubs and IPs to that of a Heller Mirage IIIC kit seat, cockpit tub and IP. He said the blokes at Heller couldn't be wrong about dimensions regarding the Mirage; this all said in English with a French slant: "It'd be like the boulanger were awful wrong about a croissant...!!!" 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Helmsman Posted July 5, 2018 Share Posted July 5, 2018 On 7/2/2018 at 4:39 PM, Uncle Uncool said: Say whut...? The F-21 is the US Navy designation for the Israeli Kfir C-1. The C-10 and C-12 are also Kfirs. I mean they were not used by IAF. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uncle Uncool Posted July 7, 2018 Share Posted July 7, 2018 On 7/5/2018 at 5:39 PM, Helmsman said: I mean they were not used by IAF. Yeh, they did... The F-21 airframe is exactly as the Kfir C.1, which the IAF used even in combat Clickie "they're!" And haven't you seen the C.10 piccy courtesy of Werner above? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Helmsman Posted July 8, 2018 Share Posted July 8, 2018 (edited) 6 hours ago, Uncle Uncool said: The F-21 airframe is exactly as the Kfir C.1, which the IAF used even in combat Clickie "they're!" As C1, not F-21 I have couple of my own C1 pictures from IAF museum and nearby city. 6 hours ago, Uncle Uncool said: And haven't you seen the C.10 piccy courtesy of Werner above? I sure have, but it only means it was painted as IAF or evaluated/tested. C10s were developed for export. Edited July 8, 2018 by Helmsman 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uncle Uncool Posted July 8, 2018 Share Posted July 8, 2018 13 hours ago, Helmsman said: As C1, not F-21 Oh, well; this quite reminds me of this awful bickering we had back in primary school regarding whether or not Batman was the same person as Bruce Wayne (or was it Peter Parker not being Spiderman, or Clark Kent not being SuperStar, or Tony Stark not being an Iron Maiden fan, or Matthew Michael Murdock not being The Devil, or Diana Prince not being Wonder Bra?) - anyway, it all ended up coming to blows! 13 hours ago, Helmsman said: I have couple of my own C1 pictures from IAF museum and nearby city. Meaning you dwell in beautiful Israel? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Helmsman Posted July 8, 2018 Share Posted July 8, 2018 (edited) 3 hours ago, Uncle Uncool said: Meaning you dwell in beautiful Israel? I used to, but not anymore moving to other side of the pond. Served in IDF as well. Edited July 8, 2018 by Helmsman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uncle Uncool Posted July 12, 2018 Share Posted July 12, 2018 On 7/8/2018 at 2:14 PM, Helmsman said: Served in IDF as well. Me is not worthy, Saá... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarrenH Posted July 26, 2018 Share Posted July 26, 2018 Just go buy the 1/48t Kinetic Kfir. Its better in every aspect than the AMK kit. Had an AMK Kfir and sold it quite quickly after getting the Kinetic kit. No idea about 1/72 but Kinetics Mirages and Kfir are lovely kits in 48th... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
exdraken Posted July 27, 2018 Share Posted July 27, 2018 On 7/26/2018 at 4:18 PM, DarrenH said: Just go buy the 1/48t Kinetic Kfir. Its better in every aspect than the AMK kit. Had an AMK Kfir and sold it quite quickly after getting the Kinetic kit. No idea about 1/72 but Kinetics Mirages and Kfir are lovely kits in 48th... looking forward to you build here!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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