PR Hurricanes

[English Electric]

Hi

I'm looking to convert a Heller Hurricane IIC to a PR IIC Hurricane in order to have a crack at one of the nice schemes in the recent Model Alliance decal sheet.

Aside from removing the main armament from the wings, what else will be needed? I understand that extra fuel tanks were fitted, were these external in any way, or purely internal.

Finally, where will the camera lenses need to be added and what's a good Humbrol match for Bosun blue?

Many thanks,

Chris

[Dave Fleming]

The cameras were generally carried in a fairing underneath the fuselage

[AnonymousFO98]

hi Chris

there are a couple of threads re: pr hurris

will post the linkys later

[AnonymousFO98]

http://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=39769

http://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=42288

hth

[The wooksta V2.0]

I'll bung in a few extras with the Wellesley!

[colinradford]

Interesting, didn't know that Hurricanes were used for PR work, any photos?

[mhaselden]

Interesting, didn't know that Hurricanes were used for PR work, any photos?

There are a few in "Eyes for the Phoenix" and "Messerschmitt Roulette". The linked threads in an earlier post also had some pics.

[Colin S-K]

Interesting, didn't know that Hurricanes were used for PR work, any photos?

Colin,

Hurricanes were most definitely used for PR work, albeit not in Europe.

Give me an email, can provide some photos.....

[email protected]

Colin

Photo Recce SIG

[Troy Smith]

Hi

"I'm looking to convert a Heller Hurricane IIC to a PR IIC Hurricane in order to have a crack at one of the nice schemes in the recent Model Alliance decal sheet.

Aside from removing the main armament from the wings, what else will be needed? I understand that extra fuel tanks were fitted, were these external in any way, or purely internal.

Finally, where will the camera lenses need to be added and what's a good Humbrol match for Bosun blue?"

Note, the heller IIc, while quite nice, has a wing about 1/16" to wide in chord, and looks pretty funny as a result (it's quite a lot in 1/72)

The IIc in a fairing under the rear fuselage, like this, it's a teardrop blister shape. I just put the link to give you an idea.

http://pic.wpalette.com///camms/ar/79/pics/9_134.jpg

more here.

http://wp.scn.ru/en/ww2/f/79/9/12#134

Note, these are profiles out of books, so really don't take them as a guide, and try to find the relevant photo.

there is a little bit here as well. Note the external tanks on the Mk1. An extra fuel would be external, I have never hard of specialist mods to PR Hurricanes for fuel (unlike PR Spits which did have extra internal tankage)

http://www.airrecce.co.uk/WW2/recce_ac/RAFARP2.html has a little more info.

as for "bosun blue" from what i have read about various blues in the middle east.... it varies. A lot!

I have seen various references to different colours used. Basically, PRU blue was too light for use in the med, as the sky is bluer. Planes were pained in darker blues, some dark enough that the roundels got repainted in a lighter shade to stand out.

Bear in mind blue is also prone to fading... especially in stong sunlight!

Much of what has been written about Malta Spitfire blues will be of relevance..... Might be worth putting up a posting specifically on the blues and see what the experts say. I'm sure Colin as a PR SIG chap will know lots more.

HTH

T

[AnonymousFO98]

Troy

iirc PR hurris had extra fuel tanks replacing the cannons

Bosun Blue is part of the discussion here:

http://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=42288

[ROGERD]

Troy

iirc PR hurris had extra fuel tanks replacing the cannons

Bosun Blue is part of the discussion here:

http://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=42288

it depends if you are building a pure PR or tactical rec version, see the other threads. I made up the 1/24 hurricane as a TR11C , Just deleted 2 of the cannon (inboard or outboard, I,ve seen evidence of both options) added a vertical camera just after the wing root with the lens just protruding - no faring, and then a side looking camera

LHS fuselarge with a rectanglar vision panel.

Rogerd

[Troy Smith]

Troy

iirc PR hurris had extra fuel tanks replacing the cannons

Hi Walrus

How? I don't see it being mechanically feasible to fit new tankage in the cannon bays, you either have several rather small tanks, or major structural changes to make. Possible, but unlikey as they used drop tanks, and that makes sense. And Hurricanes could have 2x90 Gal tanks as well. I have never read about Hurricanes having increased internal tankage anywhere.

I know they put extra tankage into PR Spitfires, but that was before the use of drop tanks.

cheers

T

[English Electric]

Guys

Thanks very much for all your help - it's all useful. This is intended as a nice, fun build to get me back into the swing of things after the arrival of my first child last year!

I've been working on a Catapult Hurricane using the Airfix 1/72 I kit, and have been eyeing up the Heller (actually it's a Smer but same difference) for some time, wanting to find something decent to do with it - I'm a sucker for old kits, despite accuracy issues, and there's a large pile of Hurricanes, Tempests and Typhoons waiting for some fettling!

Once again, many thanks for the info - hopefully I can do the decals justice, and one of the forum members here has kindly donated a camera pack & fliter in resin, which should make life easier!

Best wishes,

Chris

[AnonymousFO98]

The Tactical Reconnaissance Hurricanes apparently retained some or all of their armament, but a series of unarmed high-altitude "Photo Reconnaissance (PR) Mark I/II" Hurricanes were also improvised in Middle Eastern aircraft depots, since the preferable PR Spitfire was not available in the region. The PR Hurricanes featured additional fuel tanks in place of the guns. Early machines had two cameras, while later modifications had three arranged in a fan for panoramic imaging.

PR Mk.II. These variants retained their Mk.IIA, IIB and IIC wings, however, on some, the weapons were removed from the wings so extra fuel tanks could be fitted. From this one variant three different roles were undertaken

Well i ain't no aviation expert and am in danger of recycling fallacies. I don't have access to original documents.

but i said iirc and i did for once recall correctly. i dunno how but apparently they did squeeze in some extra tanks

keep forgetting i have a couple of those Smer/Heller kits too Chris. The Smer boxing comes with markings for a sand and spag that covers the front cowling - can't wait to try painting that in 1/72 not sure if that one was TacR but don't think so.

keep meaning to pop up a pic of the SAM camera pack for comment - seeing some responses am a bit more reassured that it isn't just a work of fiction

[English Electric]

keep forgetting i have a couple of those Smer/Heller kits too Chris. The Smer boxing comes with markings for a sand and spag that covers the front cowling - can't wait to try painting that in 1/72 not sure if that one was TacR but don't think so.

Not this one - I guess it's an old boxing... markings are for an all black LK-A, and a Russian IIC finished in all over white. Very crude decals anyway, I've seen the later Smer stuff and this is a different thing entirely. The mouldings are nice and sharp though!

C

[Test Graham]

The cannon bay is actually quite large, you could fit a sizable tank in each. However, the Malta-modified PR Hurricane had the tanks in the leading edge (position not specified). I suspect the same will be true of the ME ones. Remember that the Mk.VIII Spitfire also had tanks in the leading edge, inboard of the cannon bay, and this apparently small space was considered well worth while.

PR Spitfires continued to have extra internal fuel long after the adoption of drop tanks, thus saving considerable drag, permitting higher speeds and altitudes.

As a notorious contributor to discussions on blues on Malta Spitfire fighters, I should add that there is no connection to the "Boson Blue"- based colours on PR aircraft, and they won't provide any help.

Some of the "spaghetti" painted Hurricanes were used by FR units, but by no means all. What markings are provided in the SMER kit? This as a Mk.IIc, which is less common for the "spaghetti" scheme, so FR may well be correct. My advice would be to create the effect by wrapping around the underside light blue, then adding daubs of the uppersurface colours. Some profiles suggest a desert yellow for the basic colour, but I'm not convinced, judging by the contrast between the colours and any expected value from the scheme.

Edited January 24, 2010 by Graham Boak

[~Dan~]

This is intended as a nice, fun build to get me back into the swing of things after the arrival of my first child last year!

I know what you mean...

My youngest is 2 1/2, I'm about to try, and sit and work on a kit, in daytime, with the boy still awake.

Wish me luck!

[AnonymousFO98]

recipe for Bosun Blue in my thread

[English Electric]

I was going to have a stab at using Humbrol 104 for Bosun blue as per the recommendations in the decal sheet.

As a moderately amusing aside, following reading this thread yesterday, I went off to have a look for my tin of 104 and lo and behold - gone! Much head scratching/wife accusation followed, as did the compulsory hunt round the house. Not a thing...

...right until I saw one of my cats looking very sheepish and walking very peculiarly. A further inspection showed that Nash had cunningly attached my 104 tin to the magnet round his neck used for opening the cat flap. Hundreds of tins of paint to choose from, and which does he pick??

Graham, the markings in this Smer boxing are rather crude and probably unusable - not up to Propagteam standard or anything near as like. As mentioned above, two versions offered - LK*A, all black night fighting variant and a Russian IIC in white. It's an old boxing - side opening, red outline, night fighting Hurricane artwork, with instructions totally in Czech. On the plus side, the kit is moulded well, with some minor flash, although the actual plastic is a tad soft! Did a test fit last night, and was quite surprised at how good the fit was!

C

[Test Graham]

Thanks EE, but I was thinking of Walrus's desert version. The only SMER Hurri I have is the Mk.IV. The basic kit is the Heller, for long the best Hurricane but lacking meat in the propellor and nose, and rather basic by modern standards. Some people like it that way, of course.

One of my cats (Mishka) is often on my lap as I type, but she's wandered off. Fortunately they don't carry magnets, nor are allowed in the loft!

[AnonymousFO98]

iirc this is the aircraft

would be intersted if anyone has any photos please as will do it at some point

have not seen a kit made - sure there must be some

[~Dan~]

iirc this is the aircraft

would be intersted if anyone has any photos please as will do it at some point

have not seen a kit made - sure there must be some

Ditto, I marked this one down as a possible too. I'm interested to know if they brush or spray painted that scheme on.

[Gmat]

Here is a link to the "Majundar Tigers" series on pilots of No. 1 Squadron IAF. There is a photo of the oblique camera on a Hurricane.

http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/IAF/History/1940s/Malse01.html

Best wishes,

Grant