Kari Lumppio

Hello! YES, THE PICTURE ABOVE IS COLOURIZED AND THE SPINNER IS IN WRONG COLOURS. The real spinner colours were much more dull: Olive RLM 71 or 70 green, white stripe and light blue sector. The warning on the entry hatch should have been in red, though? The photo is from 1943 IIRC. Have no opportunity to check for a while. Cheers, Kari

Hello! Answer is yes and yes. By the end of 1942 the remaining Sarja IV (i.e. RAF Mk I) Blenheim bombers were in Finnish War Camo. Before that there was a couple of interesting interesting mixes. But yes there were RAF camo plus yellow ID FinnAF Blenheims. Cheers, Kari

Hello! About BL-183 (or -188? Don't have my reading glasses handy) shown in the picture above. It is not Mk I. It is sarja V Finnish-made short nose Blenheim. There are quite a many detail differencies and no kit readily represents it. Olive Green black uppersides, matt light blue unders. Remarkably neat cocade surroundings. Usually these show overpainting of the pre 1945 swastika insiginias. If wholly repainted (not very likely!) post-war, underside might have been light grey too. I do not have Blenheim individual document recordings availalble so cannot say anything sure. Of the FinnAF Blenheim camo. Antti K describes them, but did not emphasize that camo depended the batch (or sarja as called in Finnish) individual Blenheim was from. For example RAF Dark Eerth/Dark Green camo was only on sarja IV (BL-134-145). This batch was the 12 additional short nose Blenheims received during Winter War. These can be kitted with Airfix Mk I as they conformed to RAF specification. Time passing this changed quite a lot sometimes. Camo too. The original Finnish camo for sarja I short nose Blenheims bought in 1936 (BL-104-121) was Olive Green (Khaki, actually) with Aluminium wing and horizontal tail undersides. See thread below: Sarja III Blenheims (BL-122-133) were long nose Blenheim IV apparently with at least some Finnish specified equipment. Camo was same as the Sarja I. Sarja III can be kitted from Airfix Mk IV. least BL-125 had quite a bright interior green shade. See for more in this thread/post: Addenda: In the thread below I write BL-198 (sarja VI long nose) interior green could be Yugoslavian paint (this one: NOT! I have learnt since that all long nose pieces for sarja VI were manufacured in Finland. Only the manufacutring jig for them was from Ikarus (?) and it may have been modified. So the green paint is from Finland. Might be Ikarol (=German) 201 primer which was not RLM colour. Seems it is available as hobby paint (googled it). Cockpit of these should have been grey as it is in the BL-200 museum example. Sarja II was Finnish manufactured short nose Blenheim and these had only the War Camo Olive Green and black. Undersides varied: Photos show aluminium looking undersides initially, officially is should have been light grey (and could later be after repair/overhaul?). From 1942 onwards matt light blue after repair/overhaul etc. Sarja V was Finnish made short nose Blenheim and Sarja VI Finnish made long nose. War Camo only for these at first and post-war aluminium paint for some. All Finnish made Blenheims (and British made sarja I, too) need modifications to the base kits when modelled. Bomb well (doors), landing lights, interior equipment, armament, engine dust filters, propellers, spinners, extra window on fuselage etc. Cheers, Kari

Thank You! BraZ antennas do look a bit more angular than "Norski" ones, at least in the picture. I will look for the 16515 (Lifecolor or compare with Hu 147). I guess Lima November instructions are more than shown on their homesite then? It shows only side views and decal sheets. Cheers, Kari

Hello! Being complete novice for modern (or any kind of) airliner modelling I have couple of questions of Norwegian 737-800s: What red hobby paint to use? I plan to get Lima November decals so match to their red is requested. Are wings all grey (save leading edge) like Zvezda gives in their instructions? I have sat quite a many times in Norwegian 737-800 behind the wing window seat but have to confess I cannot say for certain if flaps were grey or natural metal. What grey is good for the wing? Colour for the flap track fairings? Is there any aftermarket resin parts for the satellite Wi-Fi antenas Norwegian AS uses? Or can anyone give dimensions etc.? Any other tips modelling Norwegian 737-800 are welcomed. Cheers, Kari

Hello! I have understood that clad aluminum parts did not need corrosion inhibiting primer (zinc chromate). But non-clad aka bare aluminium parts did need corrosion inhibiting primer (zinc chromate). Even after moving on with "natural metal" schemes. Depending of the structural member (frame, stringer, skin sheet) B-17 part could be clad or non-clad. And needing chromater primer or not. Cladding means adding thin pure (99%) aluminium layer on aluminum alloy (usuall copper alloy - dural) on outer surfaces. Most likely method was roll bonding (see: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cladding_(metalworking ) for sheets. Stringers could be made with pressing from sheet metal pieces (which could be cladded) or from extrusions (cladding not possible and so needed primer). BTW Today stringent environmental rules prohibit use of hexavalent chromates including zinc chromates. One of methods intended as replacement is spraying pure aluminum on (for example) milled frames, ribs, whatever. Sort of 3D cladding, that is. Hope this helps more than muds things up. Cheers, Kari

Hei Nils, Kjetil and others! Would that two greens upon grey go also for the Norwegian Gladiator 433? I have seen green and brown suggested. Cheers, Kari

Hello! Sorry Rob, cannot help with the Riga Yak. I can ask a friend living there if you do not get answer. Let me know. You and ohters may be interested that there is another Yak-28 museum piece in the neighboroughing country Estonia. Tartu lennundusmuuseum (http://www.lennundusmuuseum.ee/ , choose language from upper right corner) has Yak-28PP under restoration. Short introduction of the aircraft here (http://www.lennundusmuuseum.ee/pildigalerii/havitus-rundelennukid/jak-28pp/ I. As far as I know, the Yak-28PP "52" actually served at Pärnu. 655 IAP flew MiG-23s there, and some internet sources say the unit flew Yak-28 until 70's. Cannot verify, though. When I saw the Yak-28 hulk first time at the Tartu museum it was some dirty pieces where weather had washed all camo paint away. IIRC no paint was left, but some remains which could have been dirt or grass, too. If anyone can add any data or photos of these 655(?) IAP Yak-28 at least I would be interested. Happy New Year! Kari

Hello! Of the expertise. When I see "mhaselden" writing something about Brewster Buffaloes I stop glimpsing and start reading. The posting which followed (see above) was in my opinion completely unnecessary. More so because Mark started with words - I quote - "No such thing as "consensus" I'm afraid". Of the Buffalo undercarriage leg colours. Finnish Air Force saw the need to paint Brewster undercarrieage leg upper sides with camouflage colours black (retraction struts, usually) and green (main leg). Originally they were painted with aluminium dope over chromate primer as was US Navy standard then. Dark Earth and Dark Green would be perfectly natural choice for RAF Buffaloes. For me there is no worms in can. Merry Christmas! Kari

Of the use of word "bulge" in this context, please see: NACA Technical note 5: Relation of rib spacing to stress in wing planes https://ntrs.nasa.gov/archive/nasa/casi.ntrs.nasa.gov/19930080799.pdf It should help you somewhat in modelling in-flight fabric covered wing surfaces. Cheers, Kari

Hallo! NACA Technical Note 428 "Charactersistics of an airfoil as affected by fabric sag" http://naca.central.cranfield.ac.uk/reports/1932/naca-tn-428.pdf Figure 2 is one of the best if not the best numerical description of the "sagging" phenomenon. Taut fabric covering between curved ris/frames will always have visible "sag". The maximum "sag" coincides with the largest frame/rib curvature point (i.e. the smallest radius point). This is simple result of the Newtons III law. Take example of fabric covering on upper side of a wing rib span. At the center, between ribs, leading and trailing edges of fabric do have downward line force compontent. Fabric covering creates the opposite and equal magnitude reaction force by "sagging". Then the left and right side edges do have upwards component (in line forces toward ribs) making the sum of forces zero. The fabric covering centerline is inside (below in this case) the rib curvature even in perfectly taut surface! If the curvature is zero - or in other words it is flat surface - there is no fabric "sagging" whatsoever on the covering. Majority of control surfaces fall in this category. In engineering sense, that is. In-flight photos of fabric covered airplanes are suitable references only for in-flight models what comes to the "sagging" or (rather bulging or ballooning). I am of the opinion that fabric covering shall have only elastic stretch when ballooning in-flight. If there is plastic deformation i.e. the fabric really is sagging, it is no more airworthy. Cheers, Kari

Hello! FinnAF Hawk wings. Mk 51 (HW-301-350) did have the triangular stall strip on leading edge. Mk 51A (HW-351-357) did/do have the three small wing fences - "new wing" Mk 66 (HW-360-377) do have the three small wiing fences - "new wing" A handful of old Mk 51 have been rewinged and the new wing has three small fences. I think these were all repairs after accidents, not planned upgrades as such. Fin, rudder, horizontal tails and fuselage have separate maintenance cycles and few years back it was common to see green Hawks with grey pieces and grey Hawks with green pieces. And now red/white Hawk with grey fin. I don't remember ever seeing wing and fuselage with different colours, though. Of the old FinnAF Hawks HW-346 and -347 were painted with Sikkens paints and the greens differed clearly from the "normal" ones (see "normal colour" BS codes in post by user scotthldr above). Later, when the camouflage pattern and markings were made to more low-visible, as result of overpainting with normal shades the two Hawks had sort of four colour upper camouflage. IIRC one of them received grey fin or something as a cherry to the cake, too. Today all flying FinnAF Hawk are with glass cockpits (Mk 51As and Mk 66s and one Mk 51 prototype). Updated by Patria in Finland. Seven old Mk 51 will be (or are already?) upgraded, too, though this was not originally planned. These are to make up the flying hous lost in the collision of two Mk 66s in 2013. Cheers, Kari

Hello! For what it is worth Last week was held the largest peace time excercises for Finnish Air Force - "Ruska 2016". I was not with the Hawks, but there is nice YouTube video of Hawk being refuelled. Taken during the excercise. The video includes HW-374 in Swiss type red/white colours, but with grey fin! News to me, too. Hawks did have (seemingly) captive Sidewinders on left pylons. The video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8SNQDvYvwzQ Just to show that FinnAF Hawk can be/have been "green", "grey" "red&white" or even mix of them. Though I think "green" parts are no more. Nor has there been "green" parts during the time the redwhites (ex Swiss Mk 66) have been in use. One needs period photos if colour accuracy is goal for FinnAF Hawk model. Cheers, Kari

Hello! Just a morning musing. Could it be that the diagonal stripes go over the whole plane top view? So that seen from above the stripes create "V"s, but to the flight direction? I mean the Me 262 on photo where the cyclist leans on the cowling. And the contrasting colour (a dark green?) might have been chosen purposedly as the camo would be marking at the same time (Kommander winkels)? Venturesome modeller might paint black stripes on green, taking the thought much (too much?) further. Please do not take this too seriously. Cheers, Kari

Hello! Of the "14". It is within realities that there is frost/snow on the airplane wing. Just an personal remark. Was my flapper gasted when I googled about another Soviet Hurricane with three search words including "Hurricane", "Röhö" and my last name. Seems I have initialized thread here at Britmodeller and have totally forgotten that!: Hurricane IIA Z2585 , Soviet "42" http://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/50604-hurricane-iia-z2585-soviet-42 One of the linked photos even shows my beloved Nokia 3310 phone (still working - badly - but not in use). The Röhö Hurricane I searched for is mentioned in this thread: http://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/234939009-finnish-hurricane-pictures/ It is terryfying to notice how much I have forgotten about these "Karelian" Hurricanes... For example it was late Edgar who made me think about the mixed grey possibility. God bless soul of that good man. In the "42" thread I have cut a rectangle from the "light" grey area and pasted under the canopy. Compared like that there is not much difference! See yourselves. Cheers, Kari