brewerjerry Posted July 1, 2011 Share Posted July 1, 2011 Hi All, I came across this photo during a search,posted it on TOCH, then suddenly realised it is probably of interest here as well. Firstly it appears the havoc has 1459 flt code letters of AZ, ( which co incidently clash with 234Sqn ) And secondly from reading Ducimus C&M Havoc it appears it is a rare photo of a havoc in the grey/green scheme. thirdly interesting how the guy states how the paint change had to be done. Links to the page :- http://www.nightfighternavigator.com/chapt...538squadron.php extract of text THE AIRCREWS OF 1459 FLIGHT/538 SQUADRON When this photograph was taken in the autumn of 1942 the colour scheme for nightfighters had been changed from matt black to a pattern of light grey and pale green. The old paint had to be scraped by hand from the Havocs and everybody was called on to help. Link to the photo http://www.nightfighternavigator.com/img/p...t_1766x1193.jpg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spitfires Forever Posted July 1, 2011 Share Posted July 1, 2011 Thanks so much for this bit of info on a very obscure part of the night fighting effort. Up until this time the only mention of the Turbinlite program was that it was a dismal failure. Keep the info coming when and if you can, it's quite fascinating to a Havoc/Boston fan such as myself. Cheers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brewerjerry Posted July 2, 2011 Author Share Posted July 2, 2011 Hi Glad you liked it, I have come across these profiles which probably are the same camo scheme, if i find more of interest i will post it here, I must admitt in the last couple of years I found myself getting more & more fascinated with the boston/havoc types. http://wp.scn.ru/en/ww2/a/551/9/2/20 http://wp.scn.ru/en/ww2/a/551/9/2/20_b1 cheers Jerry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Test Graham Posted July 2, 2011 Share Posted July 2, 2011 The Polish aircraft has been seen in a photo - Scale Aircraft Modelling some years ago? I think the book on aircraft over Scapa (I'll come back later and slot the title in) also has a picture showing a non-Turbinlite one in night-fighter colouring - though the book is best remembered for the colour cover showing a Boston in Temperate Sea Scheme. There's one for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seahawk Posted July 2, 2011 Share Posted July 2, 2011 (edited) The Polish aircraft has been seen in a photo - Scale Aircraft Modelling some years ago?I think the book on aircraft over Scapa (I'll come back later and slot the title in) also has a picture showing a non-Turbinlite one in night-fighter colouring - though the book is best remembered for the colour cover showing a Boston in Temperate Sea Scheme. There's one for you. It's "Sky Over Scapa 1939-1945" by Gregor Lamb (Byrgisey, 1991, though there's a newer edition out there). Sturtivant's "FAA Aircraft 1939-45" has a pic, also via Gregor Lamb, of Boston II AH507 T8A of 771 Sqadron in MSG/DG scheme though, since it was only issued to 771 in Nov 43, that's only to be expected. A picture in "The Fleet Air Arm In Camera" (Roger Hayward, Sutton, 1996) shows a line-up of 771 Sq Boston Turbinlites, Corsairs and Martinets: from the fact that camouflage patterns are still discernable from a distance, I reckon most are in MSG/DG. AZ as a code for 1459 Flight or 538 Sq seems to have escaped Flintham's "Combat Codes", the older "Squadron Codes 1937-56" by Bowyer and Rawlings and even Sturtivant and Co's "RAF Flying Training and Support Units". It's amazing what there is still emerging from personal reminiscences, especially now the internet allows them to be spread beyond the family circle. Good spot! Edited July 3, 2011 by Seahawk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brewerjerry Posted July 2, 2011 Author Share Posted July 2, 2011 (edited) It's "Wings Over Scapa 1939-1945" by Gregor Lamb (Byrgisey, 1991, though there's a newer edition out there). Sturtivant's "FAA Aircraft 1939-45" has a pic, also via Gregor Lamb, of Boston II AH507 T8A of 771 Sqadron in MSG/DG scheme though, since it was only issued to 771 in Nov 43, that's only to be expected. A picture in "The Fleet Air Arm In Camera" (Roger Hayward, Sutton, 1996) shows a line-up of 771 Sq Boston Turbinlites, Corsairs and Martinets: from the fact that camouflage patterns are still discernable from a distance, I reckon most are in MSG/DG.AZ as a code for 1459 Flight or 538 Sq seems to have escaped Flintham's "Combat Codes", the older "Squadron Codes 1937-56" by Bowyer and Rawlings and even Sturtivant and Co's "RAF Flying Training and Support Units". It's amazing what there is still emerging from personal reminiscences, especially now the internet allows them to be spread beyond the family circle. Good spot! Hi, Thanks for the info, i will search out a copy. Squadron codes turn up from a variety of sources and I agree it is great when new ones are found and are no longer lost. I remember finding accidently some years back when researching the cornwall ploice war diaries for aircraft crashes, i found the code for 1449 flt, 'VD'. majority of the diary info is now available on line here. http://www.rafdavidstowmoor.com/ under the crash log link. cheers Jerry Edited July 2, 2011 by brewerjerry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seahawk Posted July 2, 2011 Share Posted July 2, 2011 (edited) Hi, Thanks for the info, i will search out a copy. Squadron codes turn up from a variety of sources and I agree it is great when new ones are found and are no longer lost. I remember finding accidently some years back when researching the cornwall ploice war diaries for aircraft crashes, i found the code for 1449 flt, 'VD'. majority of the diary info is now available on line here. http://www.rafdavidstowmoor.com/ under the crash log link. cheers Jerry Very interesting site and congratulations to you on doing the spadework of wading through the police diaries. Found the 1449 Flight reference plus several other interesting snippets like the identity of the Ar196 shot down by Whirlwinds on 1/2/41 (6W-ON). Presumably this is a composite record including info from other sources like ORBs as well? Interesting that the loss of Warwick BV247 on 17/4/44 attracts no out-of-the-way comment at all: there have been conspiracy theories about sabotage. But then, if there had been a conspiracy, police records would have been sanitised anyway, wouldn't they??? PS "VD" for 1449 Flight did not get past Sturtivant: he quotes the same serial but with a different code (VD-K). Not in "Combat Codes" though. Edited July 3, 2011 by Seahawk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brewerjerry Posted July 3, 2011 Author Share Posted July 3, 2011 Hi Just to clear it up as it was probably my typing/wording, but the info on the davidstow website is not from me, Not 100% certain as i am going from memory, but I thought the Ar -196 was actually 6W+ON. cheers Jerry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Fleming Posted July 3, 2011 Share Posted July 3, 2011 There is a pic in the original Squadron Signal A-20 in Action book of a Turbinlight Havoc in DG/MSG; I agree with Seahawk re the line up in 'Fleet Air Arm in Camera' . Incidentally, Lamb's book is 'Skies Over Scapa' - it has a photo of a Turbinlite Havoc that I'm sure is in TSS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brewerjerry Posted July 3, 2011 Author Share Posted July 3, 2011 Hi I am sure i have that Sq Sig book somewhere, but I am now getting curious, as to why the FAA had turbinlite havocs. cheers Jerry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rossm Posted July 3, 2011 Share Posted July 3, 2011 The Polish aircraft has been seen in a photo - Scale Aircraft Modelling some years ago? The exact memory escapes me but I have seen a photo of a Polish parade (307 at Exeter?) with a green/grey Turbinlite in the background. I think it's a mistake to associate the aircraft with the squadron but I'll have to revisit my references to be able to say which unit at Exeter at the time had a Turbinlite on strength, Ross Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seahawk Posted July 3, 2011 Share Posted July 3, 2011 (edited) Incidentally, Lamb's book is 'Skies Over Scapa' - it has a photo of a Turbinlite Havoc that I'm sure is in TSS. Actually (now I've bothered to look) it's "Sky over Scapa"! But thanks for the correction anyway. Agree with you that the colour photo of "T8K" on the cover is in TSS. As to why 771 had them in the first place, I expect it was a happy conjunction of the FAA needing some twin-engined types for fleet requirements purposes and the RAF having some low-hours Havocs and Bostons lying around for which it had no immediate requirement. I don't expect they were required or used as Turbinlites (hence the mixture of Turbinlites and glass-nose aircraft). It wouldn't surprise me to learn that all the heavy batteries had been stripped out. But that's all speculation on my part. Edited July 3, 2011 by Seahawk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seahawk Posted July 3, 2011 Share Posted July 3, 2011 Not 100% certain as i am going from memory, but I thought the Ar -196 was actually 6W+ON. Your memory is better than my ability to read my own writing: you're right of course. I seem to have been a mine of misinformation yesterday. PS What's TOCH? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brewerjerry Posted July 3, 2011 Author Share Posted July 3, 2011 Your memory is better than my ability to read my own writing: you're right of course. I seem to have been a mine of misinformation yesterday.PS What's TOCH? Hi http://forum.12oclockhigh.net/index.php, a discussion board for sort of aircraft and . cheers jerry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seahawk Posted July 3, 2011 Share Posted July 3, 2011 Hi http://forum.12oclockhigh.net/index.php, a discussion board for sort of aircraft and . cheers jerry Some interesting topics and familiar names: added to favourites. Thanks for the pointer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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