rob Lyttle Posted February 16 Author Share Posted February 16 1 hour ago, Rabbit Leader said: You’re making lots of work for yourself, Seems it's my comfort zone, Dave 😋. I was saying on a previous thread somewhere that I'd built a Tamiya F4U Corsair and found it boring just assembling their perfect parts. Felt like I was working for The Tamiya Co. instead of making my own model. I know a lot of modellers like that and spend loads on extras that someone else has produced too, but I'm in my happy zone hacking up plastic 🤪 Which brings me to the wings, and I'm weighing my options. So far I've opened up the wheel well for where the tyre would fit up in. The plastic just has this.... The fuel tank attachment lug has been removed and the slot filled, and the exhaust has been drilled and fitted with some Ali tube and fixed on. But the real issue is the flaps. These big, powerful Fowler flaps on rails were what made these Lockheed Twins such capable and versatile aircraft, and the kit makers seem to be wholy disinterested in the feature. The little Airfix Hudson has barely a mark to indicate their existence among all the generous riveting everywhere, and this Frog kit is not much better. Although the riveting has been limited to just the engine cowlings....phew 😀 So, do I get the knife out, or just go along with it 🤔?? That trailing edge strip referred to earlier could be sorted at the same time. And the cutout on the inboard end of the flap is no longer required, being clearance for the opening bomb bay doors. No bomb bay function on this little liner, so I think I'll fill in the cutout. Decisions.....🤔 10 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silverfox63 Posted February 17 Share Posted February 17 14 hours ago, rob Lyttle said: So, do I get the knife out, or just go along with it 🤔?? Rob, which option would make you happier? Your model and so on. Cheers, Chris. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rob Lyttle Posted February 17 Author Share Posted February 17 You're quite right ✅️ of course Chris. Probably I'm thinking outloud really 😋 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silverfox63 Posted February 18 Share Posted February 18 Nothing wrong with thinking out loud, sometimes makes the decision making easier, or harder, ymmv.🤔 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AdrianMF Posted February 18 Share Posted February 18 Drooping the tailplanes will add a lot of character to the finished model. Thanks for showing us how it's done. Regards, Adrian 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AdrianMF Posted February 18 Share Posted February 18 On 16/02/2024 at 23:13, rob Lyttle said: found it boring just assembling their perfect parts. Absolutely! Plus the stress of trying not to make any mistakes. And the guilt of not replacing perfectly nice plastic parts with aftermarket that you won't see in the finished model. And then the shame of painting it with a brush! Hasn't stopped me buying a few though! Regards, Adrian 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rob Lyttle Posted February 18 Author Share Posted February 18 Oops....🤭 It just came off in my hand. Some might have seen this coming. Anyway, all I need now is a plan to get it back on again 😎 9 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silverfox63 Posted February 19 Share Posted February 19 Oh-oh, now you've done it. Obviously this means it is making you happy, lol. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rob Lyttle Posted February 20 Author Share Posted February 20 Reckon so, @silverfox63😎 So I'm taking tentative steps with the 1st wing and here's what I've got so far... The arrows indicate where I've filed away the wedge shape under the trailing edge of the wing. Frog would have it that the flap(pictured beside the wing) is extended out to match the wingtop, and that wedge does the job of extending the flap profile. I've come to the conclusion that this is wrong. What Lockheed started with in this series of airframe designs is the Super Electra L14, also known as the Hudson. It had a regular tapered wing form. The design had some aerodynamic issues with the wing wash interfering with the performance of the tailplanes . For the L18 Lodestar they raised the tailplanes up about a foot and fitted this trailing edge strip onto the guide rails to push the wing turbulence down underneath the tailplanes. Other than that, we're looking at a Hudson wing and flap. This improved design was incorporated in the Ventura, being a high powered military adaptation of the Lodestar. For the interest, here's what MPM Special Hobby supply in the Lodestar kit... Hudson wings and a pair of photoetch brass strips to go onto the rails 👍 They received some considerable criticism for taking what looks like a crass shortcut for the Lodestar when in fact they were correct to represent it this way. So, long story short, I'm filing the wedges away and giving the flap some attention The top surface of the flap is sheeted over with skinny styrene and little wedge blocks are glued on the under side for where they fit around the guide rails. I've also made a firewall disc to fix in the nacelle for some extra structure. I'm going to need a rear wing spar to hold the wing in shape now the flap is open So I'll carry on filing, cutting and glueing stuff for a minute 11 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AdrianMF Posted February 21 Share Posted February 21 Interesting about the flaps and wing extensions. The Beaufort had some circular segments fitted to the trailing edge of the wings behind the nacelles for the same reasons. Regards, Adrian 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rob Lyttle Posted February 21 Author Share Posted February 21 Internals for the wing are done... A bit of guesswork is required to get the height of the tapered wing spar correct. Too high and it messes up the attachment to the fuselage. The other little runner is a surface for the flap to attach to. I'll sort the landing light later, so.... Having got this far, I had a look at the engine and cowling front to see what we have. To be honest it's not great. The kit method is to glue the engine plate to the back of the cowling ring and fix that on the front of the wing assembly . I'll be putting the props on metal shafts which will slide into tube bearings mounted in the engines so the props can wait till later. Meanwhile I'll try to redeem the cowling and engine....a bit 10 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrB17 Posted February 21 Share Posted February 21 Excellent engineering here Rob. I like the challenge of building these old kits, and I think they are a great test bed for experimenting with different ideas. The more practice, the easier it becomes, and then when you need to correct something or enhance the details, you don’t have to worry about spending a fortune on aftermarket or waiting for it to be released. You just take the bull by the horns and do it yourself. Your build is quite gratifying to watch and you have some great techniques. I have already employed some from this group build, and I couldn’t be more chuffed! Great build here. Cheers Jeff 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AdrianMF Posted February 23 Share Posted February 23 The wings look transformed. I'm squirrelling away tips for when I build the Minicraft Ventura in my stash, which seems to share a lot of similar problems! Regards, Adrian PS their treatment of the slots seems very odd. The real one just had simple narrow slots, although I have seen photos where the area behind the slot was painted a darker colour. Compare and contrast with the photos taken under the wing of a preserved NZ PV-1 derivative here. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rob Lyttle Posted February 24 Author Share Posted February 24 On 23/02/2024 at 10:35, AdrianMF said: their treatment of the slots seems very odd Yeah, this is a feature that I've never really delved into. I haven't cut any slots, even in 1.48 scale. Something I haven't been moved to engage with, other than black paint to mark the slots. And the underside is a mystery to me. I see what you mean re the NZ walkaround and compared to this... The dark areas are definitely featured on this kit, but Minicraft have given it a much lighter treatment, but recessed. The big Revell kit has the recesses more pronounced. Some of these museum examples have had makeovers that can include replaced wings and they could be from a postwar, revamped PV1 like a Howard 500-- I think Lear did some too, and others. So who knows what has gone on or been salvaged or refitted. Bit of a rabbit hole, looks like to me...🫣 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AdrianMF Posted February 25 Share Posted February 25 2 hours ago, rob Lyttle said: Bit of a rabbit hole, looks like to me...🫣 I don't think they had rabbits in the wings Rob... 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rob Lyttle Posted March 13 Author Share Posted March 13 Time for an update on the Ventura, I think 🤔....!! Goodness, doesn't Time fly when you're enjoying yourself? Obvs I got a little bit sidetracked- mostly by the Frog Voodoo, plus I'm being kept busy with real world stuff. The 2nd wing got some attention and is pretty well up to date with the 1st. The main endeavour was the painting of the fuselage decor. I used mig acrylic without too much preparation of the white base coat and it's a bit "temperamental". A bit flaky on the edges just where a nice clean line is required. Rubbed down, 2nd coated after remasking, and things are improved but still a bit sketchy on the edges. So, left a while..... This evening I had what may be a breakthrough, although it may not, let's see how it goes 😅 What happened was..... I needed to replenish the teabag situation and started cutting the cellophane and noticed a "tear strip" still half-attached to the wrapping. I haven't seen one for a long time and don't even bother looking for them these days. But this was Yorkshire Tea, where things are done proper, and it turns out that the little gold strip has a glue side, probably an aid in the manufacturing process. Turns out that one complete tear strip is long enough to do a cheat line on both sides of the fuselage....😎 It's happy enough to tack down with its own glue and I've been over it with Pledge floor polish . There are touch-ups to do and thinking about the bottom lines too, but this feels like a lurch in the right direction (if it stays on...) So this is not a particular airline livery I'm trying to replicate, there's no reference material of "the real thing ". I'm just going for a decorative civil period style. Cellophane tear strips, eh? Who-da thought it 😅‼️ 11 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrB17 Posted March 14 Share Posted March 14 Brilliant work with the tear strip! I like it when you can find everyday things to use in modelling. It’s going to look sharp when finished. Cheers Jeff 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marvinneko Posted March 14 Share Posted March 14 Very clever and it works very well! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AdrianMF Posted March 14 Share Posted March 14 Providence rewards people who drink proper tea! Mrs MF asked me to unzip a 240 pack just a few days ago but the bin men have been since then. I reckon the next one is due in about 60 days... Regards, Adrian 1 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rob Lyttle Posted March 14 Author Share Posted March 14 5 hours ago, AdrianMF said: Providence rewards people who drink proper tea! Adrian, 240 ÷ 60 = 4. And two of you on the case, discounting visitors, guests and neighbours....! Not good enough 😅 One thing I had to test before going further was the masking on the windows. Plenty of scope for disappointment there, but I think it's OK 👍 The astrodome is fitted. I have to own up that this is not the Frog part. I have some Special Hobby transparencies for a Hudson which are modern and much better and I've substituted. So the only Frog clear part used here is the cockpit canopy 8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rob Lyttle Posted March 15 Author Share Posted March 15 (edited) Right, we have an airframe to work with. And started to look at the undercarriage parts. And after searching and clearing debris, I found the door!! Bit of a relief Edited March 15 by rob Lyttle Addition 6 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rob Lyttle Posted March 15 Author Share Posted March 15 I ought to mention a slight enhancement on the cowlings. The definition of the cooling flaps is a bit poor and I applied some strips of skinny plastic to give a clean edge and the slightest of overhangs. That gives a better idea of the cooling gaps under the flaps. I did a couple more strips on the horizontal joints which weren't that good. I think with a bit of rubbing down and paint these will settle down. I learnt early on that any work on the inboard sides of cowlings and nacelles should be done BEFORE fixing the wings to the fuselage...🤪 No use people telling you this -- you need to learn it the hard way. Then you know it.... 9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rabbit Leader Posted March 16 Share Posted March 16 Great progress on this Ventura, it's all coming together very well indeed. Using general household items in modelling projects always piques my interest, it's amazing what weird things we can think about whilst trying to get to bed! Cheers .. Dave 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rob Lyttle Posted April 5 Author Share Posted April 5 OK, finally have some decals designed and printed for this'un and a few others including the Frog Voodoo Sun Run build. Tricky enough doing the USAF Amarillo style letters and numbers for the Voodoo but I found an online solution 😀 So fingers crossed I can pull this off. Soon would be good 👍 9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JOCKNEY Posted April 5 Share Posted April 5 Looks terrific 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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