Bong P-38 H Ligthning 42-66847 tail boom national insignia

[Eduardo Soler]

I am looking for information, preferably photographs of the P-38 h (white 79) of Richard Ira Bong (42-66847) with 16 victories, specifically of the tail booms ,where the national insignia appears.

I've seen:

 Profiles with the insignia blue circle and white star

Profiles with blue circle insignia, white star and two white bars (not outlined)

Profiles with the standard insignia of the end of the war: blue circle insignia, white star and two white bars , outlined in blue.

 

Can someone clarify what would be the correct type of badge?

[e8n2]

18 hours ago, Eduardo Soler said:

I am looking for information, preferably photographs of the P-38 h (white 79) of Richard Ira Bong (42-66847) with 16 victories, specifically of the tail booms ,where the national insignia appears.

I've seen:

 Profiles with the insignia blue circle and white star

Profiles with blue circle insignia, white star and two white bars (not outlined)

Profiles with the standard insignia of the end of the war: blue circle insignia, white star and two white bars , outlined in blue.

 

Can someone clarify what would be the correct type of badge?

It depends on when the photo was taken.  Prior to June 1943 the national insignia was a white star in a blue circle.  In June of 1943 white bars were added to each side of the blue circle with a red border for the whole.  In Sept 1943 the border was switched from red to blue.  In the Pacific theater they were very leery of having any red in the insignia because of possible confusion with the Japanese hinomaru national insignia.  According to the Wikipedia entry on Bong, it could have been anyone of the three types of insignia.  He left the area in December 1943 for leave back in the States.  When he got back in January of 1944 he had girlfriend's picture put on the nose of his plane.  I am only aware of him using a natural metal J model with her picture on it.  Hope this helps.

Later,

Dave

[Toryu]

There is some evidence that P-38 in the H-5 range were still delivered with the star-in-circle insignia, to which white bars were added in the late summer to autumn of 1943. The blue border to the bars seems not to have appeared in the SWPA theatre before early 1944. Depending on the time frame of your model the first two options seem likely.

[alt-92]

Pacificwrecks has a pic of one 38H that was lost in October 1943 that appears to have them, though. 
According to legend, the red outline was not favoured.

 

https://pacificwrecks.com/aircraft/p-38/42-66561/p38-nose-181.html

 

[Geoffrey Sinclair]

The P-38H-5 block was 42-66727 to 67101, first acceptances in June 1943, last in August

 

42-66847 was accepted on 3 July 1943, so it should have had the June insignia update when leaving the factory, what the SWPA did on arrival is not known.

42-66561 was a P-38H-1 accepted on 30 May 1943.

 

According to the USAAF list Bong registered his 16th claim on 28 July 1943.

2 on 430107

1 on 430108

1 on 430303

2 on 430311

1 on 430329

1 on 430414

1 on 430612

4 on 430726

1 on 430728

1 on 431002

2 on 431029

2 on 431105

Promoted from 1st Lt to Captain between 12 June and 26 July.  His 22nd claim was on 15 February 1944.

 

[Charlie Hugo]

Looking through the Osprey Aircraft of the ACes no 120 (P-38 Lightnin g aces) it seems as if the geenral rule appears to be 

P38 F and G, initally with just the star in a circle.

Then P38G  seems to have the plain white bars adde

P38H appear to be generally star in circle with white bars, and then with the added blue surround. Could not fiund and P-38H with just the blue circle and star.

There is a photo of Bong with 42-66847 captioned as follows

 

A pensive Capt Dick Bong poses with
his P-38H-5 42-66847, which was
issued to him as a replacement for
the Lightning that he had written off
on 6 September 1943. This
photograph was taken at the end of
the Rabaul offensive in November
1943, at which point Bong’s tally
stood at 21 – he had claimed his final
kills of 1943 on 5 November (two
‘Zekes’ over Rabaul) in 42-66847

 

Unfortunately the booms are not shown and the scoreboard has a tally of 21 kills

Personally I would go with the plain white bars to the star for the earlier period although there is a possibilty that the blue border may have already been painted,  and later with 21 kills add the blue border.  IMO it is unlikey that 42-66847 carried the star and circle without bars. But I cnnot trace a photo showing the overall aircraft as yet.

[Toryu]

4 hours ago, Geoffrey Sinclair said:

42-66847 was accepted on 3 July 1943, so it should have had the June insignia update

 

Possibly, but not necessarily, since factories usually carried on with previous policy for a while. The June update would mean they had red borders - some were kept shortly before being erased or overpainted (with olive drab at that time), which might also explain this picture (the border looks darker all around):

 

5 hours ago, alt-92 said:

 

@Charlie Hugo The white bars were not a factory marking but added in the field, i.e. the H-5 came with the star-in-circle or with red outlines.

 

Just my thoughts. I don’t intent to open a can of worms or start a controversy. 🤫

 

[Eduardo Soler]

Thanks to all of you for your collaboration.

Since there are no photos, I still have doubts, although you have reduced them to me. For the period in which he had 16 victories (November 1943) it is clear that the star insignia in a blue circle should no longer be used (The profile of the plane that appears like this in 49 Th F,G of Squadron Signal does not indicate either date or victories) In this book Bong appears with another 79 aircraft but it does not have the same factory number and has 21 victories

The decal set of Aero Master "US Top guns" (4266847 with 16 kills) has the bars outlined in blue,

The Tally-Ho decals propose insignia with plain  white bars...

According to the modeler's Murphy's law, the option that I choose will be the wrong one...

Edited August 20, 2023 by Eduardo Soler

[Eduardo Soler]

2 hours ago, Charlie Hugo said:

Looking through the Osprey Aircraft of the ACes no 120 (P-38 Lightnin g aces) it seems as if the geenral rule appears to be 

P38 F and G, initally with just the star in a circle.

Then P38G  seems to have the plain white bars adde

P38H appear to be generally star in circle with white bars, and then with the added blue surround. Could not fiund and P-38H with just the blue circle and star.

There is a photo of Bong with 42-66847 captioned as follows

 

A pensive Capt Dick Bong poses with
his P-38H-5 42-66847, which was
issued to him as a replacement for
the Lightning that he had written off
on 6 September 1943. This
photograph was taken at the end of
the Rabaul offensive in November
1943, at which point Bong’s tally
stood at 21 – he had claimed his final
kills of 1943 on 5 November (two
‘Zekes’ over Rabaul) in 42-66847

 

Unfortunately the booms are not shown and the scoreboard has a tally of 21 kills

Personally I would go with the plain white bars to the star for the earlier period although there is a possibilty that the blue border may have already been painted,  and later with 21 kills add the blue border.  IMO it is unlikey that 42-66847 carried the star and circle without bars. But I cnnot trace a photo showing the overall aircraft as yet.

 

[Eduardo Soler]

In the photo in which Bong and two others pose in front of a P-38 with 21 victories under the number 79 on the nose, a serial number partially covered by the 79 (you have to wear good glasses) can be seen in a color that could be yellow with the sequence 356? or 1356? (page 58 of the book 49th FG of Squadron Signal)

[Jure Miljevic]

Hello

If it helps, there is a photo of Bong's P-38 H white 73 with circle and star insignia in one of Schiffer's book about Pacific Lightnings. There is no serial on vertical tails, only white 73 individual number. The caption says this was the plane in which Bong achieved his 16th victory. Unofortunately I could not find it on the web. Cheers

Jure

[Charlie Hugo]

2 hours ago, Jure Miljevic said:

Hello

If it helps, there is a photo of Bong's P-38 H white 73 with circle and star insignia in one of Schiffer's book about Pacific Lightnings. There is no serial on vertical tails, only white 73 individual number. The caption says this was the plane in which Bong achieved his 16th victory. Unofortunately I could not find it on the web. Cheers

Jure

And yet his kill list on Wikipedia shows that he achieved his 16th kill in a P-38G on July 28, 1943. He crashed (in this aircraft???) after a combat on 6th Sep and he was issued the P38H as per Osprey's aircraft of the aces.

BTW in the squadron book on the 49th fighter group there is a picture of P-38H-5's (including white 73 and the tail seems to be carrying 73 on it as well but very indistinct/out of focus/over exposed, it is not attributed to any specific pilot) with the star in circle upon delivery.  Unfortunately, I don't have the Schiffer books.

[Jure Miljevic]

Hello

Sorry chaps, apparently another can of worms ... I checked my references again and the photo of white 73 appears in John Stanaway book P-38 Lightning aces of the CBI & Pacific (Osprey). The caption says: "This P-38 G-5 is reckoned to be a Lightning used by the newly-promoted Capt. Dick Bong to gain his 16th victory (an Oscar) 28 July 1943 north-west of Rein Bay ..." According to the same source this was the Lightning which had been written-off in early September after a fire exchange with Betty gunners, again flown by Bong. However, according to William Hess book 49th Fighter Group - aces of the Pacific (Osprey) on that occasion Bong flew P-38 H-1. The same photo also appears in other publications (I am still browsing through my Schiffer books, looking for it), but as Charlie Hugo said, captions vary considerably: for example in the old In action booklet it is said to show 475 FG planes.

Will stop now before I veer off topic even further. Cheers

Jure