Korean War Mustangs - cockpit colours

[Anthony Kesterton]

Hi

 

I missed my chance to join the Mustang Group build, but the excellent models got me interested in Korean War Mustangs - specifically the planes lent to the South African Air Force by the US.  Everything I have seen so far talks about black cockpit interiors (because this was the interior colour of the US aircraft).

 

Anyone know more about this - Black or Interior Green, or something else.

 

thanks

 

anthony

[72modeler]

Run for your lives- the worms are out of their can! Off the top of my head, (Which is pointed, by the way!) there could be many variations, I think, depending upon which plant built the Mustang and whether or not it had been through IRAN (Inspect and repair/replace as necessary) at one of the depots. IIRC, those that went through depot refurbishment or major maintenance had black cockpits, with the remainder having their original  interior green or dull dark green areas, depending upon their assembly plant. They were all pretty scruffy and heavily worn, from the original photos I have seen. I can check the P-51 SIG for discussion on this if one of our resident authorities isn't forthcoming with more definite information. I don't recall if any CAC-built Mustangs were used by the RAAF or the  SAAF, or if they used USAF-supplied airplanes.  I have the provenance of the 36th FS 8th FBG F-51D I have always wanted to model, so never really gave this topic much thought until reading your post. The Flying Cheetahs were one helluva group of fighter pilots, in both the Mustang, and later on, in Sabres! Your model will be a fitting tribute to some consummate fighter pilots!

Mike

 

I have attached a link to the Korean War history of No. 2 Squadron, which you might find interesting, if you don't already have it- evidently they brought their Mustangs with them, but there is no mention as to whether or not their mounts were of CAC or NAA manufacture. Sorry!

 

http://samilitaryhistory.org/vol043pm.html

 

 

[canberra kid]

I don't know if this is too early to apply but,

John

[Sonoran]

The answer, as with most things, is “it depends”.   Many Mustangs used in Korea were taken from storage depots where the were interned after their acceptance flight at the factory at the end of WWII.  A few came from ANG units in the US.  The ones that were stored through the late 1940s were undoubtedly 100% factory original finish in every way.  Those aircraft generally kept their unique NAA style tall thin tail numbers.  The former ANG birds may have been overhauled, and may (possibly) have had black cockpits.  I have never seen a verified period photo that proves that any Mustang ever had a black cockpit however.  It’s often easy to tell the former ANG birds by their different looking tail number stencil style(s).  They also often had their wings stripped to bare metal rather than the puttied and painted factory finish.

[Anthony Kesterton]

Hmm - I thought this might be a fun topic.  Given my first go will be 1/72, so it will not be too serious if I don't get this right.

 

Thanks for all the info and links, very kind of you all. Will take a look at all the links, etc.

 

anthony

[72modeler]

10 hours ago, Sonoran said:

The answer, as with most things, is “it depends”.   Many Mustangs used in Korea were taken from storage depots where the were interned after their acceptance flight at the factory at the end of WWII.  A few came from ANG units in the US.  The ones that were stored through the late 1940s were undoubtedly 100% factory original finish in every way.  Those aircraft generally kept their unique NAA style tall thin tail numbers.  The former ANG birds may have been overhauled, and may (possibly) have had black cockpits.  I have never seen a verified period photo that proves that any Mustang ever had a black cockpit however.  It’s often easy to tell the former ANG birds by their different looking tail number stencil style(s).  They also often had their wings stripped to bare metal rather than the puttied and painted factory finish.

Yep.  According to the sources I found, The F-51D's used in Korea came from three sources: from aircraft kept in storage in Japan after WW2, from surviving stateside Mustangs collected and overhauled/refurbished as needed by the SAD at Kelly Field for assignment to ANG units, or from ANG units themselves. Depending upon the number of hours on the aircraft handled by SAD, they might or might not have had the cockpit areas re-painted, but many had the filler/surface on the wings stripped back to bare metal and not refinished with aluminum lacquer, as you stated. BTW, the Mustang had the highest loss rate of any USAF combat aircraft in Korea- pilots would have preferred the P-47, but there were not enough of them left in the inventory, nor were there sufficient parts still available for them to be used in the ground support role.

Mike

[Whitewolf]

Never seen a pic of a Mustang with a black cockpit. Have a book stashed away somewhere which covered post WW11 ops in Korea and subsequent sales to other Countries. All cockpit pics in it show interior green.

[Anthony Kesterton]

2 minutes ago, Stealthman said:

Never seen a pic of a Mustang with a black cockpit. Have a book stashed away somewhere which covered post WW11 ops in Korea and subsequent sales to other Countries. All cockpit pics in it show interior green.

Thanks - I will start with this.

 

regards

 

anthony

 

[72modeler]

6 hours ago, Stealthman said:

Never seen a pic of a Mustang with a black cockpit. Have a book stashed away somewhere which covered post WW11 ops in Korea and subsequent sales to other Countries. All cockpit pics in it show interior green.

I don't have a horse in this race, nor do I claim to be an authority on the subject, but I am a member of the P-51 SIG, so I went there and found discussion on this topic regarding Korean War era Mustangs. I have paraphrased from  the original lengthy discussion by some of the resident members. I offer it for consideration, but do not mean it as a rebuttal or  as a definitive answer to Anthony's original posted question. I have seen color photos of USAF F-51D's from the 8th and 18th  FBG's that do show both the WW2-era green cockpits as well as some with the black-painted cockpits as described in the SIG discussion, which was basically:

 

Originally, the wood cockpit floors were  painted with a very dark grey/black nonskid paint. After WW2, and beginning around 1947-48, the cockpit edges from the longerons up were finished with a flat black paint, as well as the area around the fuselage fuel cell and the inside of the windscreen and canopy framing. The changeover from interior green to black on the interior framing of the windscreen/canopy was explained in an NAA bulletin dated 6/17/44, effective beginning with all P-51D-5 and P-51K-5 Mustangs.   

Mike 

Edited October 1, 2018 by 72modeler
corrected spelling

[Admiral Puff]

For the sake of completeness - we did send a couple of CAC Mustangs to 77RAAF in Korea, but the vast majority of the aircraft they used in the conflict were NAA-built airframes.

[Anthony Kesterton]

This is fascinating! Thanks for all the info everyone.

 

 

[11bravo]

A fascinating subject.   When I wrap up my current build, I plan on building a Korean War F-51 out of the 32nd scale Tamiya kit.  I posted on LSP asking this same question and get pretty much the same answer - some were black, some were WW2 spec green.  Depends on where the Mustang came from.    If it helps, a kind gent posted this picture.  Gonna be fun to do some weathering similar to this, those Korean Mustangs had the crap kicked out of them.