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H&S Evolution Silverline - Weird problem


armored76
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Hello,

I have the following problem with my Harder & Steenbeck Evolution Silverline using the 0.2mm nozzle: When the air cap and the nozzle are on and tightened, I only have a small amount of air coming out the airbrush which is merely enough to splatter some paint out. Once the air cap is slightly untightened, there is "plopp" sound like one of the seals is releasing or untightening (in the lack of a better word) and then air starts flowing at the expected rate through the nozzle (and also back to the paint cup). The air pressure is set to 20 psi which is higher than the normally used 10-15 psi. This happens with paint, plain water and airbrush cleaner, all the same.

 

What I tried so far was:

  • clean the airbrush (nozzle interior, nozzle seals, air cap)
  • try water and airbrush cleaner
  • increase the air pressure even more
  • inspect the nozzle and nozzle seal

 

My (uneducated) guess would be a problem with the nozzle seal since I noticed a darker (paint?) rim around it and what might be a slight deformation on one side. However, cleaning it thoroughly was not bringing any change.

 

The problem started all of a sudden with no pre-warning after having the brush sit unused for several weeks.

 

Any suggestions you might have as of what might be the root cause are more than welcome! Many thanks in advance!

 

Have a great day!
Cristian

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If the nozzle seal fails, it will normally bubble in the cup, not stop air flow.  It could be the seal has become deformed for whatever reason and it's now pushing the nozzle out of line with the needle, which will bend it sealing itself against the needle.  It could also be the needle is bent sealing itself against the nozzle when locked into place.  

 

If you've got one change the nozzle/needle  for another one or size 0.4, if it works the nozzle/ seal or needle are the issue.    Check the nozzle aperture isn't bent, do this by inserting a straight needle into it and checking it's completely central, if it's not the nozzle is bent.  

I've had similar with my Evolution, a slightly bent needle, not at the tip but about 5/10mm back and I've had a bent nozzle, they're very thin and easily damaged, either will give you your problem.   A needle can be straightened nozzles can be to a point, but often replacement is the only way.   

 

My money is on either a bent needle or nozzle and in that order, it could also be both,     

      

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If you have two size nozzles (like 0.2 and 0.4) you might want to check and make sure you didn't mismatch the nozzle cover and the nozzle. Using the 0.2 cover with the 0.4 nozzle would cause a very similar behavior to what you're describing.

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Thank you for the hints gentlemen!

It appears to be a bent needle indeed. I rolled it on a hard, even surface and I can see the tip moving up and down. The bend itself is strangely located some 3-4cm from the tip which makes it hard to explain.

I was planning on getting a 0.4 nozzle/needle anyway so time for that is now :)

 

Thanks again!

Cristian

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I have a similar problem with my H&S Ultra 0.4 needle/nozzle combo.Most of the air comes out of the cup, not the nozzle. I have cleaned the hell out of the nozzle, nozzle cap, needle, even the body where the nozzle seal sits and the problem still exists.

I can't detect any bend in the needle or nozzle either.

 

Swapping out to my 0.2 needle/nozzle combo works flawlessly..

 

From what I have read here, and my limited knowledge (i.e. assumptions and educated guesses) about how the airbrush actually works, I have ordered new nozzle seals to see if that fixes the issue,

 

I reckon it's the cheapest part out of the 3 which could be knackered.

 

Fingers crossed.....

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From the description I would try replacing the nozzle cap seal, as well. But first make sure the cap seal is sitting correctly and that the cap itself is tightened correctly.

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1 hour ago, Weedlesketch said:

I did think about that, but I cant find one for an H&S Ultra .4 nozzle cap anywhere.. they only see, to come with the caps themselves.

 

Try here it's for the Evo and infinity but most parts are common, if you contact Martin (email) he'll be able to confirm, I'd be very surprised if it didn't fit.  

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2 hours ago, Kev The Modeller said:

 

Try here it's for the Evo and infinity but most parts are common, if you contact Martin (email) he'll be able to confirm, I'd be very surprised if it didn't fit.  

Martin at Aircraft.net has confirmed that this is the correct seal.

 

Thanks again.

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The standard Ultra nozzle cap doesn't have a seal, only the Evo and Infinity ones have it (in the form of a special rubber O ring). You can swap (and I highly recommend it) to an Infinity 2 prong nozzle cap, it'll make life much easier in the long run.

Back to your air bubbling problem: I would suspect the nozzle being enlarged and obstructing the airflow. You could've easily checked to see if the nozzle seal is at fault by swapping the seal from the 0.2 to the 0.4 nozzle.

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Posted (edited)
15 hours ago, bmwh548 said:

The standard Ultra nozzle cap doesn't have a seal, only the Evo and Infinity ones have it (in the form of a special rubber O ring). You can swap (and I highly recommend it) to an Infinity 2 prong nozzle cap, it'll make life much easier in the long run.

Back to your air bubbling problem: I would suspect the nozzle being enlarged and obstructing the airflow. You could've easily checked to see if the nozzle seal is at fault by swapping the seal from the 0.2 to the 0.4 nozzle.

Firstly, apologies armored76 for this thread getting hijacked more than a little.

 

Secondly, bmwh548... Good thinking.. swapping out the nozzle seals made little difference, so that's one thing ruled out as a cause (At leat I now have a spare seal for when I do need one).

 

My Ultra did come with an o-ring as a cap seal for both the .2 and the .4 caps. According to Martin at Air-craft.net there seems to be no consistency to whether H&S provide them in the Ultra or not.

As for the infinity nozzle cap, you have mentioned that before  when I was asking for help with a dripping cap problem, but I seem to have managed to solve that issue by making sure I release the needle before releasing the air.

 

20210706_092709

 

20210706_092647

 

 

The nozzle does not look out of shape, but I suppose the needle does look like it goes through a long way... ...pretty much impossible to tell though with the tolerances involved.

 

Edited by Weedlesketch
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1 hour ago, Weedlesketch said:

Firstly, apologies armored76 for this thread getting hijacked more than a little.

 

Secondly, bmwh548... Good thinking.. swapping out the nozzle seals made little difference, so that's one thing ruled out as a cause (At leat I now have a spare seal for when I do need one).

 

My Ultra did come with an o-ring as a cap seal for both the .2 and the .4 caps. According to Martin at Air-craft.net there seems to be no consistency to whether H&S provide them in the Ultra or not.

As for the infinity nozzle cap, you have mentioned that before  when I was asking for help with a dripping cap problem, but I seem to have managed to solve that issue by making sure I release the needle before releasing the air.

 

20210706_092709

 

20210706_092647

 

 

The nozzle does not look out of shape, but I suppose the needle does look like it goes through a long way... ...pretty much impossible to tell though with the tolerances involved.

 

What often happens is the nozzle aperture widens during use, or if you push the needle in slightly too too much and lock up it up.  Constant on off over time widens the aperture, the nozzle is very thin and soft material.    

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3 minutes ago, Kev The Modeller said:

What often happens is the nozzle aperture widens during use, or if you push the needle in slightly too too much and lock up it up.  Constant on off over time widens the aperture, the nozzle is very thin and soft material.    

I've only had the airbrush for a few weeks and thought I was being careful not to exert too much pressure when re-inserting the needle...

 

... however...

 

...things are falling into place!

 

Last week after sustained session applying a primer coat to a Stug IV, upon dismantling for cleaning the needle was a little stiffer to remove than before and the nozzle would not come out of the cap. I thought it was stuck with drying primer, and gave it a good going over with IPA and cellulose thinner. Eventually it did come loose and I thought I had 'cleaned' it loose. When I put it back together there was a little bubbling, but after reseating the needle the bubbling stopped.

 

With the power of hindsight I bet somehow I had pushed the needle in too hard, expanding the nozzle tip, and this was then caught on the cap.

 

Doh!

 

Time for a new nozzle.

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29 minutes ago, Weedlesketch said:

I've only had the airbrush for a few weeks and thought I was being careful not to exert too much pressure when re-inserting the needle...

 

... however...

 

...things are falling into place!

 

Last week after sustained session applying a primer coat to a Stug IV, upon dismantling for cleaning the needle was a little stiffer to remove than before and the nozzle would not come out of the cap. I thought it was stuck with drying primer, and gave it a good going over with IPA and cellulose thinner. Eventually it did come loose and I thought I had 'cleaned' it loose. When I put it back together there was a little bubbling, but after reseating the needle the bubbling stopped.

 

With the power of hindsight I bet somehow I had pushed the needle in too hard, expanding the nozzle tip, and this was then caught on the cap.

 

Doh!

 

Time for a new nozzle.

Yep it's that easy, they're very fragile.  If you suffer a sticky or heavy needle action put some cleaner, it's needs to be hot so Mr Tool or cellulose etc in the colour cup, let it sit for a bit some back flushing and slowly work the trigger, until it's free.      

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1. Neither of my nozzle caps had O-Rings on them, but I guess they might make that decision when they factory test the brushes? If there's leaks they just add an O-Ring?

2. That needle is going in way too far. The nozzle might not be "split" yet, but it's definitely deformed. When I got my replacement I put them side by side and was amazed at the difference.

ltMigQp.jpg

 

3. Because I'm a brute I can't be bothered to wait for thinner to unlock my needle from the PTFE seal. I remove the nozzle, unscrew the rear and just tap the tail of the needle on the table. The shock breaks the paint seal and pushes the needle out. Then I just wipe it clean, reassemble, spray some thinner and I go back to work. But for safety reasons you should be gentle with it (letting thinner work, not smashing everything like Hulk).

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So the left one is the 0.2 nozzle and the right one the 0.4? That does look not OK indeed.

I usually spray half a cup of airbrush cleaner before disassembly and never had any problems with stuck parts. Then again, I tend not to leave paint in the brush for too long after I finish spraying.

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So H&S have changed the marking system?

0.2 was plain; now 2 grooves?

0.4 was 1 groove; now 4 grooves?

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Well.... a new nozzle solved the issue... Thanks all.

 

On the subject of grooves, here is my H&S .2 (left) and 0.4 (right) needle, nozzle sets supplied within the last month with my new Ultra....

 

2021-07-07_10-20-58

 

2 grooves/nobs for 0.2 and 4 groves/nobs for 0.4

 

...and both caps came with seals too.

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