Jump to content

Airbrush Course query.


ST3Black
 Share

Recommended Posts

Hi there, I am a relative newbie who is (still) struggling with getting to grips with my H&S Evolution airbrush. I build cars and bikes and only shoot water-based acrylics due to my working environment. However, after much advice from numerous sources, experimentation and sanding (!), I am still experiencing the same issues as when I started.

 

Does anyone know of any modelling airbrush courses available (once this lockdown is over!)? I am based in Surrey and have found one offered by Airbrush.com, based in West Sussex.  This sounds ideal - but I wondered if anyone knew of any others?

 

Any advice greatly received, thanks.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

There's numerous videos on Youtube for airbrushing beginners.  Some good.  Some not so good.  Your mileage may vary.  Here's one that uses an H&S Evolution.  :coolio:

Truthfully though, your choice of paint and thinners will be extremely important in your success or failure.  You must learn the specifics of your particular paint.  Search BM to see what others are using successfully.

 

Hope this helps!  :thumbsup:

Edited by uncletommy
Link to comment
Share on other sites

18 minutes ago, little-cars said:

The airbrush company are Iwata specialists, so you won't get any specific H&S help.

 

What problems are you having ???

 

Paul

Hi Paul - sandy, grainy finish on my gloss coats. Spraying on a Ferrari 458, using no.34 Revell Aqua and the no.220 Humbrol Acrylics. For both I have tried thinning to the consistancy of semi-skimmed milk, using water, flow aid and Revell Aqua thinners. I have tried spraying at everything from 10 psi to 20psi and varying the distance from the model - no difference. So I am having to sand after each coat. However, spraying any matt paint results in a smooth finish. I am stumped.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 4/19/2020 at 3:00 PM, ST3Black said:

Hi there, I am a relative newbie who is (still) struggling with getting to grips with my H&S Evolution airbrush. I build cars and bikes and only shoot water-based acrylics due to my working environment. However, after much advice from numerous sources, experimentation and sanding (!), I am still experiencing the same issues as when I started.

 

Does anyone know of any modelling airbrush courses available (once this lockdown is over!)? I am based in Surrey and have found one offered by Airbrush.com, based in West Sussex.  This sounds ideal - but I wondered if anyone knew of any others?

 

Any advice greatly received, thanks.

I went on a two day course at the Airbrush Company, it was okay I suppose but I was left disappointed based on what I was expecting.

 

Firstly they are the Iwata distributer so you do get the opportunity to try (and buy) various Iwata and NEO.  That's pretty useful because you can see the differences between their cheaper NEOS and the proper Iwatas, the traditional trigger and the pistol trigger.  But it's all Iwata so if you want to look at anything else you're out of luck.

 

It is also a bit of a sales pitch - "Iwata are fantastic, so much better than everything else".

 

You can take your own brush along but you will still be charged the same.

 

As a beginner, having previously picked up a brush and sprayed around a bit (a cheapy Chinese clone at the time) I didn't think I left the course with any improvement.  Even though there the number of students is small (six or eight from memory) you don't get much one to one time.  You spend a lot of time learning how to clean it (useful if you don't know).  Then the teacher will show you something and then you get a bit of time to try it yourself.  But in that practice time he can't spend much time with each person.

 

Personally I would save your £250 and watch youtube videos and practice.

 

Cheers,

 

Nigel 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 19/04/2020 at 22:43, nheather said:

I went on a two day course at the Airbrush Company, it was okay I suppose but I was left disappointed based on what I was expecting.

 

Firstly they are the Iwata distributer so you do get the opportunity to try (and buy) various Iwata and NEO.  That's pretty useful because you can see the differences between their cheaper NEOS and the proper Iwatas, the traditional and the trigger.  But it's all Iwata so if you want to look at anything else you're out of luck.

 

It is also a bit of a sales pitch - "Iwata are fantastic, so much better than everything else".

 

You can take your own brush along but you will still be charged the same.

 

As a beginner, having previously picked up a brush and sprayed around a bit (a cheapy Chinese clone at the time) I didn't think I left the course with any improvement.  Even though there the number of students is small (six or eight from memory) you don't get much one to one time.  You spend a lot of time learning how to clean it (useful if you don't know).  Then the teacher will show you something and then you get a bit of time to try it yourself.  But in that practice time he can't spend much time with each person.

 

Personally I would save your £250 and watch youtube videos and practice.

 

Cheers,

 

Nigel 

Hi Nigel,

 

Thanks for your input on this, very much appreciated. I did wonder if them being a Iwata distributor would mean that other makes would be regarded as inferior and it sounds like that is the case. 

 

As you and uncletommy said, it seems I have many more hours of YouTube watching ahead!

 

Best,

Ant.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 4/19/2020 at 10:43 PM, nheather said:

I was left disappointed based on what I was expecting

I and about 6 others, did a similar course as Nigel, but mine was with a company in Leicestershire and really feel that I learnt more from YouTube and still continue to do,  than what I did from the course...………….could have saved a lot of money

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, rayprit said:

I and about 6 others, did a similar course as Nigel, but mine was with a company in Leicestershire and really feel that I learnt more from YouTube and still continue to do,  than what I did from the course...………….could have saved a lot of money

Was that Barwell - I did a single day course there on weathering.  Again, didn't rate it that much.  They are Badger distributers so as you can guess there was a hint of a Badger marketing.

 

Cheers,

 

Nigel

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I was trying to ovoid putting a name to the company Nigel, but, you hit the nail right on the head......at the end of the session there was a queue to buy lots of his accessories for airbrushes plus a lot of Stynylrez primer

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 19/04/2020 at 18:00, ST3Black said:

Hi Paul - sandy, grainy finish on my gloss coats. Spraying on a Ferrari 458, using no.34 Revell Aqua and the no.220 Humbrol Acrylics. For both I have tried thinning to the consistancy of semi-skimmed milk, using water, flow aid and Revell Aqua thinners. I have tried spraying at everything from 10 psi to 20psi and varying the distance from the model - no difference. So I am having to sand after each coat.

as an airbrush owner...but not user :rolleyes:    

 

But, have you tried using an acrylic retarder, slows paint drying.   From spending way too much time on here reading all sorts of threads,  a sandy/grainy finsih sounds like the paint is drying before it hits the surface.

 

I was reading on here just now that a flow improver is mostly for brushing, as it reduces surface tension, but not always helpful for airbrushing, it may actually hinder by reducing the surface tension you may get smaller droplets which will dry faster.

 

have you tied say just using water, or water and a little Revell thinners?   Do you use tap water, or distilled?   

If you are in Surrey, and you get hard water, that may not help (living somewhere with really hard water myself)

 

 Also,. while Revell are usually rated as good paint, Humbrol acrylics are not.   

 

Quote

 

However, spraying any matt paint results in a smooth finish. I am stumped.

can you spray a gloss varnish smoothly?   If so, use the matt finish, and the add varnish to gloss.  

 

Merely a suggestion.    But, as I have been saying on here recently, if the materials and techniques you use get you the results you want, they are the "right" techniques.   Maybe a faff doing a gloss coats but if it works....

 

And, worth mentioning the use of Kleer/Future etc,  which is a self levelling gloss coat,  which can be brushed on.    May not be of any use,  especially if you have an airbrush....

 

This is really interesting tutorial

the Zero paints would not be for you,  would the Tamiya sprays be too much?   

 

I would also suggest reposting your query in the paint section, or in the cars section,  as from the responses you have got,  an airbrush course probably won't help, but asking other members here might.  

 

HTH

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I feel I should clarify a little as I feel I may be being a little unfair.

 

I have done two courses, a two day airbrushing course at The Airbrush Company and a one day weathering course at Barwell.

 

I stand by my statement that they were both product biassed, Iwata for The Airbrush Company and Badger for Barwell.

 

Both did exactly what they said they would, it was just my expectations were different.

 

For example, at the end of two days of airbrush training I expected to be pretty comfortable, competent and confident.  Sure still  loads to learn but pretty certain that I could pick up an airbrush a make a decent attempt at putting primer and base coats down.   Maybe I was expecting too much, but when I left I was not at that stage, in fact I didn’t feel I had moved on much at all.  It was good, it was entertaining but I didn’t feel I got £200 worth out of it.

 

Maybe if I had ‘sharper elbows’ and grabbed more of the instructors 1:1 time it could have been better but that isn’t in my nature.

 

So what I am saying is that you would probably be better of spending the £200+ on a good airbrush or compressor, watch a few more youtube videos and practice yourself.

 

Cheers,

 

Nigel

Link to comment
Share on other sites

13 hours ago, Troy Smith said:

as an airbrush owner...but not user :rolleyes:    

 

But, have you tried using an acrylic retarder, slows paint drying.   From spending way too much time on here reading all sorts of threads,  a sandy/grainy finsih sounds like the paint is drying before it hits the surface.

 

I was reading on here just now that a flow improver is mostly for brushing, as it reduces surface tension, but not always helpful for airbrushing, it may actually hinder by reducing the surface tension you may get smaller droplets which will dry faster.

 

have you tied say just using water, or water and a little Revell thinners?   Do you use tap water, or distilled?   

If you are in Surrey, and you get hard water, that may not help (living somewhere with really hard water myself)

 

 Also,. while Revell are usually rated as good paint, Humbrol acrylics are not.   

 

can you spray a gloss varnish smoothly?   If so, use the matt finish, and the add varnish to gloss.  

 

Merely a suggestion.    But, as I have been saying on here recently, if the materials and techniques you use get you the results you want, they are the "right" techniques.   Maybe a faff doing a gloss coats but if it works....

 

And, worth mentioning the use of Kleer/Future etc,  which is a self levelling gloss coat,  which can be brushed on.    May not be of any use,  especially if you have an airbrush....

 

This is really interesting tutorial

the Zero paints would not be for you,  would the Tamiya sprays be too much?   

 

I would also suggest reposting your query in the paint section, or in the cars section,  as from the responses you have got,  an airbrush course probably won't help, but asking other members here might.  

 

HTH

 

Hi Troy,

 

Thanks for replying. I hadn't thought about retarder for the gloss acrylic - something I will definitely try! Regarding the flow aid, I have found that it actually makes tip dry a less frequent issue but perhaps using the retarder instead would also reduce the chance of this happening whilst also slowing the paint dry time.

 

Yes, the water I use is distilled.

 

I had thought of going the 'matt, then gloss coat' route and have experimented with Pledge 'Revive It' and Alclad 2 Aqua Gloss. I have brushed these on - am too worried about messing up my airbrush to spray them. Both work well, but the Alclad is exceptional. Of course, this means finding an acrylic, water-based matt Ferrari Red - not something I have been able to do. Unfortunately even the Tamiya is too strong an odour for the other member of the household....

 

Best,
Ant.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, ST3Black said:

Of course, this means finding an acrylic, water-based matt Ferrari Red - not something I have been able to do.

Ant

Vallejo do a large colour range.(I have 3 reds) I know sod all about cars, but a quick google of Ferrari red says Racing Red,  and a suggestion was the RAL 3020 a bright orange red, as I have some RAL chips.

 

And, when I google Vallejo Ferrari red... 

https://acrylicosvallejo.com/en/producto/hobby/model-air-en/ferrari-red-71085/

 

Vallejo paints brushes really well, the colour above is specifically for airbrush use, ie pre thinned.    It's quite delicate paint, but it's water type acrylic like Revell Aqua and Humbrol.  They can be funny on colour matches, so you might want ask if it's any good as a match, but it's  water based acrylic matt.

 

Vallejo do a retarder medium,  for the Model Color (brushable) but I assume it will work with Model Air as they are the same type of paint.

https://acrylicosvallejo.com/en/producto/hobby/auxiliaries-model/retarder-medium-70597/

 

As they are water type acrylic, you can get them easily by mail.

 

revell do this a acrylic spray can BTW

https://www.paint4models.com/revell-spray.html

 

HTH

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, Troy Smith said:

Ant

Vallejo do a large colour range.(I have 3 reds) I know sod all about cars, but a quick google of Ferrari red says Racing Red,  and a suggestion was the RAL 3020 a bright orange red, as I have some RAL chips.

 

And, when I google Vallejo Ferrari red... 

https://acrylicosvallejo.com/en/producto/hobby/model-air-en/ferrari-red-71085/

 

Vallejo paints brushes really well, the colour above is specifically for airbrush use, ie pre thinned.    It's quite delicate paint, but it's water type acrylic like Revell Aqua and Humbrol.  They can be funny on colour matches, so you might want ask if it's any good as a match, but it's  water based acrylic matt.

 

Vallejo do a retarder medium,  for the Model Color (brushable) but I assume it will work with Model Air as they are the same type of paint.

https://acrylicosvallejo.com/en/producto/hobby/auxiliaries-model/retarder-medium-70597/

 

As they are water type acrylic, you can get them easily by mail.

 

revell do this a acrylic spray can BTW

https://www.paint4models.com/revell-spray.html

 

HTH

 

 

Hi Troy,

 

Many thanks for putting all this info together, really appreciated. I have ordered some of the Vallejo retarder and will be ordering some of the Ferrari Red to test too.

 

I also found out that the Revell Aqua Colour Mix I have is both a thinner and a retardant - it may be that I haven't been using enough of it in my mixing. I will be experimenting over the next couple of days and will let you know how I get on.

 

Thanks again,

Ant.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
 Share

×
×
  • Create New...