Ford Mustang 1964 1/2 Convertible 1/16 from the Coupe AMT kit: the Indy 500 Pace Car

[Totally Mad Olivier]

Using Fusion and the 3D printer to come, I could get exactly the desired shape for my beads:

 

Roy (or someone else used to work with Fusion), do you know how to bend a little this shape?

 

Thanks in advance

 

Olivier

[Roy vd M.]

Wow Olivier what can I say... you're quick! 

 

Regarding bending your bead, below is how I would do it. I emphasized shapes and sizes for the sake of illustration.

 

First, sketch a cross section of the bead. It's a combination of three arcs.

 

 

Adding a line, the cross section is closed and can be used as a profile. 

 

 

Now we have to make a curve along the length of the bead. We'll sweep the profile along that curve. 

 

 

I simply used a conic curve, but in reality you can be more precise (e.g. using arcs).

 

 

 

 

Now choose 'sweep', select profile (=cross section) and path (=conic curve).

 

 

Now you 'kind of' extruded the cross section, but curved. 

 

The only thing left is to fillet both ends (=use the fillet command). 

 

 

One end filleted.

 

 

And both sides done. This is the prerendered 3D view. 

 

 

I look forward to seeing your progress on learning Fusion 360, I'm confident you'll learn the basics fast.

[Roy vd M.]

To give you some additional ideas on how you could amend this drawing:

 

I went back to the first sketch in the timeline (bottom left of Fusion screen) and drew a row of conic curves, next to the original shape. 

 

 

 

Then I edited the 'sweep', also in the history bar. Only the first shape had been selected, still:

 

 

 

 

But when also selecting the new shape, Fusion 360 automatically sweeps all curves along the same path we created earlier. 

 

 

 

With can start to imagine the basic shape of the seat: 

 

 

 

 

This took a few minutes to draw. However, finetuning will take more effort of course. Still I thought I'd share these basics just to provide some food for thought.

[Roy vd M.]

Ok and one more bit... after that I really have to finalise some work   

 

Of course the seat has a 'tapered' shape, at the top. 

 

One way to achieve that in Fusion, would be this:

 

First, sketch an arc and make it part of a triangular closed shape. That's going to be the 'blade' to cut away part of the seat. 

 

 

 

This 'blade' is extruded, in a cutting way and symmetric from the plane. See the settings in the image below. 

 

 

 

Here, the part is cut off: 

 

 

 

This is not a large cut. Let's make it a bit more intense: 

 

 

For that, simply amend the arc sketch I started this post with. 

 

 

 

I deselected the first bead and added three fillets, after which it looks like this:

 

 

[Totally Mad Olivier]

Thanks a lot Roy for your help. I am at pro work now, I will study your last posts when possible.

Furthermore, my bead (post#  401) was too thick imho (0,6 mm while I think 0,4 would be better).

But if it is possible to represent all the beads of a seat instead of one by one, it is definitely much better...

I imagine that someone who would have a big experience of Fusion 360 would be able to represent nearly anything. A very new approach, really.

[dbostream]

Remember that small things will be difficult to 3d-print with a good result unless you have access to a printer using resin. As I mentioned I had difficulties with the inlet slots I tried to print but the seats are bigger so it should be easier. Also Fusion 360 is great I use it for everything I design.

[Totally Mad Olivier]

8 hours ago, dbostream said:

Remember that small things will be difficult to 3d-print with a good result unless you have access to a printer using resin. As I mentioned I had difficulties with the inlet slots I tried to print but the seats are bigger so it should be easier

I have just got my Winbo SH105 printer and, as soon as possible (after the installation), I will do my first trials. This printer works only with PLA (polylactic acid, that is biodegradable), which I suppose can't be considered as a resin. Well, we shall see.

Good to know that you use Fusion 360 too and that you appreciate this software a lot.

A question about that: I have for now just a 30 days evaluation version. I suppose it is normal. I precised that I am a hobbyist...

 

Some precisions while I install the Winbo: I read the very good review (in french) from Lab 3Dnatives:

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=2ahUKEwi3zIu3w57fAhUty4UKHQHYClwQFjAAegQIBhAB&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.3dnatives.com%2Ftest-imprimante-3d-winbo-sh105-07092917%2F&usg=AOvVaw3XsCBINi-ng9TbkbLy3RlC

that brings many useful infos for install. Here are some of them (the most important):

- the Winbo provides its own software, named Cura. But I suppose it is not as powerful and efficient as Fusion. We shall see...

- the Winbo has no switch and you must avoid connecting it while you have connected to the mains. If you do so, you will create a frightening and possibly damaging electric arc. A major drawback, while I am not sure I can add a switch while there is a ground connector. I will check with a competent friend about that, because it would be much more convenient to use a switch...

- all the infos about installing are in the SD card provided (I used to worry first, as I didn't see any info in the package).

- the Winbo is not heavy, 3,5 kg, and doesn't take up too much space (h:48, w:26, l:32,5). The build platform is quite small (15x13) but it should be enough for our applications.

- the carrying handle is convenient if you want to carry it from a room to another.

- the provided PLA filament is red and there is no spool in the package. Rather petty. I have ordered immediately a good quality White 1kg PLA spool (24€).

 

Here are the conclusions of the Lab3Dnatives about this printer (in french):

 

More soon and my own first feelings after my first 3D prints... (sorry, my Mustang build is in stand-by one more time - it has been for organizing my workbench recently - but I can't be everywhere I want). 

 

[Totally Mad Olivier]

 

For my first 3D print, I chose objects suggested by the provided SD card (screw - 105- 155). There is a low noise of the printer. Pity, the indications on the LCD screen are in spanish and I don't find a language menu... The quality of impressions looks very good, but I admit I struggle a bit for now, what is quite normal for such new tools...

 

 

Now, I would like to print the object I draw with Fusion 360. I have to learn how to do that... (I hope it is possible to export from Fusion to this 3D printer, that provides its own software, Cura...)

 

 

[dbostream]

Resin printers use a liquid resin and you can get amazing details even on small objects, not that expensive anymore look up for example Anycubic Photon.

 

Cura is a slicing software used for your finished models, it will generate gcode for the printer. In Fusion 360 you can right-click the body you want to export and choose "Save as STL", the stl-file can then be imported into Cura.

 

A good thing about Fusion 360 is that you can import a reference photo, calibrate it based on a known dimension then use it when designing your model. For example if you have a photo of the seat you can import it and model the seat after that photo. You can even import photos for each axis:

 

 

You can apply for a one year free license of Fusion 360 if you are a hobbyist, you can then renew the license for free every year.

[Roy vd M.]

16 minutes ago, dbostream said:

A good thing about Fusion 360 is that you can import a reference photo, calibrate it based on a known dimension then use it when designing your model. 

By matter of coincidence, yesterday I made a vlog treating among other things this technique... as it's a Delage Grand Prix car part, maybe it speaks to your imagination    

 

Check from 2:15: 

 

 

[CrazyCrank]

13 hours ago, Olivier de St Raph said:

A question about that: I have for now just a 30 days evaluation version. I suppose it is normal. I precised that I am a hobbyist...

 

Hi Olivier

It's very simple to get for free a full licence  of Fusion 360

Please follow this link on a french Youtube tutoriel: Fusion 360 for free: how to ?

Enjoy

 

CC

 

PS:you can subscribe to BenTek.fr Youtube Channel to learn step by step how to use Fusion

 

Edited December 14, 2018 by CrazyCrank

[Totally Mad Olivier]

13 hours ago, dbostream said:

Resin printers use a liquid resin and you can get amazing details even on small objects, not that expensive anymore look up for example Anycubic Photon.

Thanks for the info, Daniel, I checked, Anycubic Photon is available on AliExpress for 438,60$ (about 390€) with free shipping to France (less than 7 days shipping). It is of course twice the price the Winbo SE 105 that I bought (196€). But if you can really get much better results on small objects, it might be worth it. Have you got such a printer yourself? When we see the Aires resin aftermarket sets, able to represent very fine details, I can imagine the favor such a machine can do...

I don't know what I should do and if I may send back to Amazon the Winbo SE 105 (I kept all the packaging).

I also saw there is a product, XTC 3D Lissage, that improves the state of surface of the finished models, that works on PLA as on resin. Do you know that product? 

 

13 hours ago, dbostream said:

Cura is a slicing software used for your finished models, it will generate gcode for the printer. In Fusion 360 you can right-click the body you want to export and choose "Save as STL", the stl-file can then be imported into Cura.

Thanks a lot too for this very useful hint, as I was a bit lost on the matter...

 

13 hours ago, dbostream said:

A good thing about Fusion 360 is that you can import a reference photo, calibrate it based on a known dimension then use it when designing your model. For example if you have a photo of the seat you can import it and model the seat after that photo.

A very important info too, definitely!! I was precisely wondering if I could do that. That's great, for sure! Now there is a long path before:

- I get familiar with these techniques

- I get the precise dimensions of the seats (among others). But it will be difficult (much more than with the helmet of the video) to get a side and a top view of the seat back of the backseat, fe...

 

Thanks too Roy and Thierry for your very useful contributions!

 

Cheers

 

Olivier

[Totally Mad Olivier]

One good point: following the tuto in french suggested kindly by CC, I could get the Fusion 360 1-year licence. And the Ben Tek.fr You Tube channel looks great. 

 

Furthermore, I saw a video on You Tube about the Anycubic Photon printer, it seems to give very fine results indeed. But it is more messy and it requires more handling, especially to clean the printer. I really wonder what I should decide, send back or keep my Winbo. That's why I would like to test printings from objects created in Fusion, with a high resolution, what I will try to do this afternoon (pro work this morning).

[dbostream]

Nothing wrong with keeping the printer you have, I have not tried out a resin printer yet but I hope to one day. Can imagine it might be a bit more difficult to start out with. I have not used XTC 3D, looks interesting thanks for the tip. If you can print with a layer height of <= 0.1mm then you can get a good finish with FDM printers too, of course you are still going to have to sand the objects.

Edited December 15, 2018 by dbostream

[Totally Mad Olivier]

 

Here is just above the result I could get (using a high refinement option) for the first object I created with Fusion 360, using my PLA Winbo SH 105. As you can see, the result is not very good, despite that the object is not so small (40 mm diameter circle). In particular, the printer has badly finished its task. But more, the perpendicular inside reinforcements are not at all as well reproduced as the ones parallel to the z vertical axis.

 

After this first test, I tried to print a very small part with my Winbo. I recall that the bead I created was 0,6 mm thickness, 2 mm width in Fusion. One more time, I chose a high resolution and options to get the best result possible (I am a beginner and probably did not exploit all possibilities). The result is not very good, the thickness of the part is rather 0,9 mm and this confirms imho that such a printer using PLA doesn't allow to print very small parts, as Daniel suggested with right above. It would be very interesting to see what I can get with a printer such Anycubic Photon, using resin, with the same design and parameters...

 

But unless it is me who don't know how to make the best use of this machine, I am not sure I will keep it... I can send it back to Amazon until the end of next january. The time for me to get more experienced. It is also possible that with another PLA filament, I could get a better result... 

Definitely, I don't know what to decide for now.

[Totally Mad Olivier]

Here is a presentation of the Anacubic resin 3D printer:

 

If the result is very certainly better than with FDM printers, there are also big drawbacks: a very messy and tedious work...  So?

[Totally Mad Olivier]

After having left apart my build for CAD/ CAM first experiences, I needed to come-back to it:

 

Several reference documents have been used in order to try getting quite correct shapes and dimensions. Among others, the ones present in my post# 348 above.

 

 

N.B: maybe I have understood why my 1st object has been badly printed on the top by Winbo. I am doing a new trial changing a parameter that could explain this failure. I will come-back on this matter at the end of the new printing. 

[dbostream]

Don't give up on your printer just yet, when I first got one several years ago it took a lot of tweaking the settings in Cura/Slic3r before I got good results.

 

About the first test print, you should try to print the object laying down like in the photo. You will never get a round nice shape printing it standing up. The inside reinforcement is going to need support material (you can enable it in Cura) when you print the object in the orientation you printed. What is your speed setting for the fan?

 

The other part coming out 0.9mm thick instead of 0.6mm, it could be that you need to recalibrate the distance between the bed and the nozzle. Also make sure it is not setup in Cura to make the first layer extra thick for better adhesion to the bed. If it is set to for example 150% then that could explain the error you see.

Edited December 16, 2018 by dbostream

[Roy vd M.]

And before buying another printer, try using the 3D printer network (hub). If you Google this you’ll find out just how many high end printers there are in your neighbourhood. Not too expensive either, in most cases (especially for testing one or two pieces and seeing what’s possible).

[Totally Mad Olivier]

 

As I suggested in the N.B of my previous post, I could understand why the print had failed. When printing such an object (round), it is necessary to generate a support during the printing. We may see that this second trial, with the support, is much better, but...

 

 

 

 

The XTC 3D official video:

 

It is interesting to mention that, in this video of the maker, it is suggested to sand the parts after drying. In such conditions, we may wonder if the product is really interesting... We could, as an option, use a primer sprayed with an airbrush. We would probably get nearly the same result (or even better ones...). Your comments on the matter are welcome, of course, especially if you experimented this product...

Conclusion: I will certainly keep this printer, following Daniel and Roy's hints...

[dbostream]

Looks better but you should try to lay the object flat. Hard to tell from the photo but it might require som support under it since it doesn't look completely flat but the rest will be much better.

[Totally Mad Olivier]

1 hour ago, dbostream said:

Looks better but you should try to lay the object flat. Hard to tell from the photo but it might require som support under it since it doesn't look completely flat but the rest will be much better.

A good suggestion, Daniel. I am aware I am taking my first step in the 3D world, and I will have to experiment many things.

The problem is that all that takes time, this precious time, and I would like also my build to go on. 

This build from a poor kit would be the best candidate for making parts from 3D printing, but pity, I don't have the necessary skills to implement such new approaches all now. I have to decide if I first improve my technique in CAD/CAM, meaning my build to go on still slower, or if I choose to go on, leaving for later the CAD/CAM learning...

Waiting for such difficult decisions, I made a last test with my part:

 

 

[Totally Mad Olivier]

 

 

Conclusion: of course, I will not go on further with this part. The goal was to check what a basic 3D printer using PLA could give, while the challenge was very high considering the very thin slots we have here. Very probably, a premium 3D printer (or maybe a resin printer such Anacubic Photon) would allow to get very good results. 

The future of scratch building won't happen without 3D printing (at least for a good part), I am quite sure of that. The printers will become better and better (and probably also cheaper and cheaper). You might as well take the train on as soon as possible, what doesn't mean leaving apart our "traditional" techniques...

 

Olivier

 

N.B: by "recessed" areas, I meant "sunken" ones (I don't know what word is more appropriate in english for them...)

[JeroenS]

5 hours ago, Olivier de St Raph said:

The future of scratch building won't happen without 3D printing, I am quite sure of that. The printers will become better and better (and probably also cheaper and cheaper). You might as well take the train on as soon as possible, what doesn't mean leaving apart our "traditional" techniques...

I think you're absolutely right Olivier. The possibilities are (or will become) endless. The printers will get cheaper, no doubt about that. A lot will depend on one's ability to master the 3D software though. It would be nice to have a "3D parts database" on the forum someday 🙂 

 

5 hours ago, Olivier de St Raph said:

N.B: by "recessed" areas, I meant "sunken" ones (I don't know what word is more appropriate in english for them...)

I'm also not a native (English) speaker but I think that "recessed" is exactly the correct word. 

[JeroenS]

By the way, maybe you could print me 4 Fiat 500 hubcaps as an excercise 😋